Are Devs having burn out issues right now from developing warframe?

[GreyDeath789]

4 hours ago, dota_Icarus said:

You need to differ "feedback" and "complain"... 

As I mentioned in my example, is it fine if some player´s feedback is the grind is too hard. But it is not very reasonable if the same players complain about content drought after the grind for new things are nerfed.

Also lots of ppl are always asking for brand new content, despite we already have a huge unfinished foundation with unused potential. That is what i mainly want to adress on our players´ side

True...why would players complain about content drought while there is so much unused potential for content that hasn't been delivered to play and instead the game simply stacks grind upon grind and claim that as content.

Who would ever think the grind isn't content...the horror.

[DCaedus]

They have been for years, but they need to release new content, because the content we have rn isn't as replayable or fun, we mostly play the game for the rewards, not because we actually like playing it for the most part.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

If there is no obstacle there is no way!

[Steel_Rook]

I think there's a bit of a misconception here. Releasing content and working on pre-existing systems are not mutually exclusive. "Finishing" Fortuna would involve creating a third Orb Mother fight, which is new content. It just happens to be new content in an old zone. Adding a Corpus counterpart to Kuva Liches would constitute new content. It's just adding content to an old system. This is precisely why tileset remasters tend to get both a lot of praise and a lot of return on investment - because they update activities we were already doing anyway, meaning we end up using said new content more often.

DE's issue isn't just that they prioritise releasing new content over finishing old content. It's that they prioritise releasing new content ISLANDS before they finish populating the old ones. All of their Free Roam maps have a terrible return on investment. They have their own insular economies and host only their own insular content. What this means is we play them only as long as it takes to get all the rewards, then we never go back. That's a waste of development resources. Rather than adding more substance to these Free Roam zones and thus more reason for us to go back, they keep adding new ones that we'll blow through in a couple of weeks and never go back. It creates a game that's as wide as an ocean and as deep as a paddling pool, aka the "paddy field" approach to design.

Here's a little trade secret: When you update an old content island, you aren't just pushing people into the new update. You're also pushing people back into the other old content which makes up the rest of the old content island. Adding the Exploiter Orb to Orb Vallis didn't add just a boss fight. It also reminded me that Orb Vallis itself had a bunch of fun stuff to do that I could also be doing. It reminded me that I do kind of like the bounties there, and it pushed me to finally wrap up Little Duck's syndicate and finally grab Baruuk, not to mention build a few new Operator Amps that I could have built at release.

In my opinion, DE need to focus on adding content to their existing content islands and - ideally - linking them with the rest of the game better. Constantly adding new content islands is a short-sighted, resource-inefficient way of managing video game development.

[DrivaMain]

On 2020-09-21 at 3:30 AM, Traumtulpe said:

You appear to believe that content is another word for grind. It is in fact not. Content and grind are 2 entirely separate things. It is possible to have content without grind, and sadly the opposite is just as possible.

Grind is part of the game’s content, wether you accept it or not. Remove grind from Warframe and the entire game will be finished in a matter of hours. Live service game needs to squeeze hours from players as much as possible to keep it alive and the money flowing. That’s where grind comes in.

I haven’t seen one live service PVE game where it does not have grind tied to it. If you don’t want grind might as well just stop playing MMOs entirely.

 

 

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Grind is part of the game’s content, wether you accept it or not. Remove grind from Warframe and the entire game will be finished in a matter of hours. Live service game needs to squeeze hours from players as much as possible to keep it alive and the money flowing. That’s where grind comes in.

Sawdust is part of strawberry yogurt, whether you accept it or not. Remove the sawdust from strawberry yogurt, and the yogurt will be eaten in a matter of seconds. Yogurt manufacturers need to lace their products to earn as much money as possible. That is where the sawdust comes in.

[DrivaMain]

18 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Sawdust is part of strawberry yogurt, whether you accept it or not. Remove the sawdust from strawberry yogurt, and the yogurt will be eaten in a matter of seconds. Yogurt manufacturers need to lace their products to earn as much money as possible. That is where the sawdust comes in.

We're talking about grind in a video game. Not food products. You are derailing the topic.

Let me ask you a question. How many hours can you squeeze from players in a grind free Warframe? 50 hours? 100 hours? Or even less?

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, DrivaMain said:

We're talking about grind in a video game. Not food products.

You missed the point. We are talking about filler.

[DrivaMain]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You missed the point. We are talking about filler.

But that filler is required by the game. Removing grind in a Live service MMO like Warframe is hopeless and suicidal for the game.

[Traumtulpe]

The origin of this discussion was that people sometimes ask for less filler, and more of the fun stuff. Which is entirely reasonable.

[Duality52]

On 2020-09-20 at 9:07 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

Optimizations

The large optimization last week helped players with lower-end PC's (me for example) quite a lot, so I wouldn't rule out optimizations entirely.

[Samhel]

Yes they do

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

On 2020-09-20 at 11:49 AM, dota_Icarus said:

stop releasing new contents for now, and only focus on optimizing and connecting the existing content.

This has been suggested before and i personally agree, but we seem to be in the minority.

On 2020-09-20 at 11:49 AM, dota_Icarus said:

complaining days and nights and start to share some loves with the Devs. 

They get plenty of praise for everything they do as it is. You cannot watch their streams without seeing a echo chamber of "GREAT JOB DE" from chat and them congratulating themselves for every little detail they can. Honestly they have protected themselves with such a "no negative" bubble for so long its not a surprise they react so badly anytime some criticism actually gets through to them. I disagree that we should not provide criticism where it is due.

[mrpyro12345678]

I genuinely think they should do Deadlock Protocol-esque updates on all the existing content we have so far.
Develop Railjack and Base Game, for example, make it tie in a bit more.
Also do connections between the Open Worlds.
Would be a funny coincidence seeing that one Corpus Researcher being caught by Nef's forces after doing his mission on Deimos.

[RazerXPrime]

Not everyone enjoys working from home. I've seen a significant increase in work burnout because of social isolation. I personally desipise having to work from home every ffing day.

[Teoarrk]

On 2020-09-20 at 6:07 PM, DrakeWurrum said:

It would be nice, but if they did that, the game would suffer for a bit. We've had a content drought before. New content draws in new players and new revenue. Optimizations and bug fixes... do not.

They need to be able to do both. If they can't, they need to expand their studio to more employees.

 

On 2020-09-20 at 5:49 PM, dota_Icarus said:

I want to suggest, that they can stop releasing new contents for now, and only focus on optimizing and connecting the existing content. I really think we got a lot of nice contents recently with great potentials. 

I think what OP means here is work on what is already there and connect it a little better. There are many things that gameplay wise are very disjointed and in order to bridge the gap, some things are gonna be added. It's just not going to be a flashy thing that the marketing team can spin unless they make so many changes that the game is as advertised. Read fixed Railjack, Archwing is fun, better integration of Open Worlds into Starchart, etc, you know the stuff that would get people that have since left the game in disappointment to come back.

Theres a lot of content potential for existing systems that is being given in dribbles over the space of years because the team work at a breakneck pace under the adage of 'build it and they'll come', but I think the opposite adage is true now of 'nuture it and they'll stay'. There are so few things in the new systems that stand up beyond one or two rewards that people are bound to get them finished pretty quickly. If they spent time building the systems up (Or launching them after more analysis of what is being used and what is not in the case of Helminth) then there would not be such a chaotic, spasmodic push for new content, take a break, content, take a break, etc. 

[dota_Icarus]

Just imagine being able to drive your own Railjack into other ppl mission on Fortune, and then flying down with your own Mech to finish of the third Orb Mother.

It is new content based on things we have now. However, it is not a new foundation which need to be expanded.

[dota_Icarus]

Also i believe, from the fast product-cycle of modern game industries, people are treating games like fastfood. And Fast-, if not instant gratification is the goal. 

Games like Warframe is different. It´s like a dark chocolate, you need to taste it long enough to have the sweetness (aka Reward). 

Though I have to admit, sometimes DE are not putting in proper rewards for the grind it´s needed.

Yet I still believe not every complains about the grind have a proper reason behind it. 

[KaneOfAble]

I can see the argument, and personally I would prefer the "new in old" approach. Of course at this point I kind of expect any new things added to be not worth playing. I just can not get behind the forced use of a xoris and the push to use conservation they forced on us. And I am kind of expecting every thing to be locked behind "I dont want to at all" like that to get to what I would actually want to do. I have given up on both Protea and Helminth as a result of I just do not fund that stuff fun at all. That is different from "grind", some parts of the game are just not fun to play, and forcing us to play them makes the game its self not fun to play. Again that is different from "hard". There is a core "fun" to older WarFrame quests and content, that is almost locked out of the newer stuff because of these arbitrary walls. 

From what I hear people "helicoptered" and that is what became the "aim glide" we now have. I believe if players found ways to have fun like that today DE would patch it as a bug, how dare any one play as they want to than how DE intended it. I swear they use what we dont play as how to lock the game down and stretch it out.

[IggySnow]

I think the main problem is DEs goals are too big for the staff to handle.

for the last 3-4 years the lead devs have gone "look at this really cool thing were working on its going to be great!" only for those new things to take forever to develop, release in a half baked state because they ran out of time, and only had minor changes made despite needing massive changes, or even overhauls right out of the gate, and then they are forgotten about too soon because the staff needs to start working on the next content drop.

It honestly feels like DE needs to have a complete reorganization when covid dies down, because something is not working and needs to be changed. Weather it be hiring more staff to keep up with the lead devs goals, or the studio manager putting their foot down and and saying no to the ridiculously big ideas.

[Reed_McCloud]

Funny how all 3 of posts are just gone. Careful guys, DE is deleting posts that are in anyway slandering the company and/or employees.

I had 1 lengthy reply in this thread that called out my concerns over DE being con artists. I didnt use foul language and the only person I called out would've been DE Scott (I made a reference to have his garage and car restoration project are never ending and that's what our platinum purchases have been used for instead of proper game development).

So...now DE is in the business of suppressing opinions regardless if community guidelines and policies are being followed?

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2020-09-21 at 4:07 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

It would be nice, but if they did that, the game would suffer for a bit. We've had a content drought before. New content draws in new players and new revenue. Optimizations and bug fixes... do not.

They need to be able to do both. If they can't, they need to expand their studio to more employees.

Tencent has plenty of money to spend so it shouldn't be a problem to expand .. but head office might have to move further east.

[-AncientWarrior-]

7 hours ago, dota_Icarus said:

Just imagine being able to drive your own Railjack into other ppl mission on Fortune, and then flying down with your own Mech to finish of the third Orb Mother.

It is new content based on things we have now. However, it is not a new foundation which need to be expanded.

well said  Love the first sentence  that would be very cool

 

[WindKitsune]

People come to Warframe expecting it to be like COD. It's obvious if you see what most of the feedback tend to be: easier targets, less gimmicks, solo friendly, more shooty less thinking. Maybe Warframe would benefit from rethinking their marketing strategies since it's been a long time the shooting was the only thing it had to offer.

[(XBOX)CryingCross4970]

one would assume they would burn out working form home but they care greatly for their game that their releasing large stuff like diemos, hopfully if they are burning out they take breaks or play tag team