Jump to content

Apparently DE still can't figure out NW after YEARS in game.


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Luciole77 said:

warframe now have 37,993 players online.

It lost somewhere around 7 to 9 positions on the steam list of the most played games. The nw is contributing immensely to the disaster ....

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

You know that "cum hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacies don't really help your cause, right? It's a pretty good indicator of how little you've got to work with when you start trying to use that sort of thing to justify your claims. Just saying. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You know that "cum hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacies don't really help your cause, right? It's a pretty good indicator of how little you've got to work with when you start trying to use that sort of thing to justify your claims. Just saying. 

low popularity= low interest in the game=bored players=tragic to DE.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Luciole77 said:

low popularity= low interest in the game=bored players=tragic to DE.

Ahh that must be why the game died years ago and nobody was playing before nightwave was introduced, because of how few people were really interested in the alerts. It was because the vast majority of the alerts happened when players were doing other stuff and couldn't just log on and play 24/7, and even when they did play unless they were total newbies the alerts weren't bringing anything that anyone needed. 

 

Oh wait that didn't happen either, people just ignored them and did other stuff. 

Can you see where the flaws in your logic are, now? 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's gotten annoying enough with the glass-holes constantly spawning in missions and how drawn out the narrative is that I've completely stopped caring about the "story" portion.  Considering that there is a cap on NW creds, and they take their sweet time getting to the next stage and won't extend the cap, this is very apparently a way to slow down the acquisition of reactors/catalysts, alt helms and in-game earnable skins.  Alerts weren't "better" but there were regularly alerts for potatoes, alt helms, auras, and nitain.  Now all that is locked behind running dozens of missions or really tedious tasks where the work for each reward is 10x what it was under alerts.  Combine that with the hard cap on credits and suddenly all these things you can purchase from the market or other players for plat are all scarcer than they used to be.  If you have to spend all your credits on Nitain then getting potatoes or auras gets harder. 

 

Call me tinfoil hat all you want.  There is a reason DE suddenly decided to put more work in for a "free" system of getting these items.  I'm willing to bet it was because there's more profit for them if they replace the RNG of alerts with the time-gating and currency caps and extra work of NW.  No one replaces a functioning, automated system with a more work intensive one that involves paid voice actors because the changes in mechanics aren't going to make them more money.  

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I do happen to like nightwave.

Enjoy the diversion of the crime scenes and brief pace change it offers.

Like Nora for the “warriors” vibe but do wish she’d play some tennotunes between segments (I’d also like some darvo ads and maybe an interview with clem but anyway...)

it would be nice to see some of the threats of previous series pop back up on occasion too in some way (kinda like the razorback/Balor stuff. Wolf raiding grineer locations with his escapees. Etc.)

i certainly prefer it to constantly hoping to catch the alert for potatoes and the annoyance of missing them.

 

But I do agree that the post thirty rewards need a tweak if a nightwave is going to run long. Maybe something significant (from the original thirty) every five in addition to the current rewards would be a good stop gap.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What? Aren't they on a timer? Is it different on xbox? 

That timer feels awfully short.  Especially on the open worlds.  I swear Nora is up in my ear every other mission "HOLD UP.  DETECTING ASS."  It's constant, and I hate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

That timer feels awfully short.  Especially on the open worlds.  I swear Nora is up in my ear every other mission "HOLD UP.  DETECTING ASS."  It's constant, and I hate it.

If you hear that constantly, then you should probably try to figure out why. Most people hear her saying "detecting glass resonance", just saying. It's like a 20 minute timer for me, and I just kill about 5 of em and it goes away again. Not like I really need to change how I'm playing or anything, lol. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-09-21 at 10:14 AM, Luciole77 said:

I would like the alerts to come back .... but in a reformulated and varied way. Railjack, cetus, fortune, deimos alerts .... Today for me nw is just a way to buy potatoes ..... all the credit I get goes to these things ... in the end nw did not contribute in nothing. Look at the wolf .... it was temporary content and if you want to see it again you need to buy with credits at nw .... I think this is wrong and doubtful. The wolf should be like the stalker ....! The same will happen with the glassmaker .... the nw proved that it is not a content but a way to hold players. I would like the fins to return. Getting warnings from nora is annoying in the long run ...!

Seriously. When I thought about it, why are alerts replaced with Nightwave? I know they mentioned it was to move Aura Mods, but surely there was something else I'm not remembering right? They're honestly not in the same realm of content. One was a system that had random missions come up and drop extra stuff, the other is a passive task you do in the background of everything else. Challenges biting the dust for NW makes sense, but Alerts? Cause I actually miss those now, especially the Treasure Ships. Would it been difficult to just re tool them? Like actually make them reflect what they had for them, with the whole radio thing? It was super nice how they had some that dropped a ton of crafting materials. Imagine having an alert, that's timed, where you raid a ship that was carrying open world resources and maybe involve having higher drop amounts if you involved your Railjack.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

It's gotten annoying enough with the glass-holes constantly spawning in missions and how drawn out the narrative is that I've completely stopped caring about the "story" portion.  Considering that there is a cap on NW creds, and they take their sweet time getting to the next stage and won't extend the cap, this is very apparently a way to slow down the acquisition of reactors/catalysts, alt helms and in-game earnable skins.  Alerts weren't "better" but there were regularly alerts for potatoes, alt helms, auras, and nitain.  Now all that is locked behind running dozens of missions or really tedious tasks where the work for each reward is 10x what it was under alerts.  Combine that with the hard cap on credits and suddenly all these things you can purchase from the market or other players for plat are all scarcer than they used to be.  If you have to spend all your credits on Nitain then getting potatoes or auras gets harder. 

 

Call me tinfoil hat all you want.  There is a reason DE suddenly decided to put more work in for a "free" system of getting these items.  I'm willing to bet it was because there's more profit for them if they replace the RNG of alerts with the time-gating and currency caps and extra work of NW.  No one replaces a functioning, automated system with a more work intensive one that involves paid voice actors because the changes in mechanics aren't going to make them more money.  

Know what, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the truth. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Know what, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the truth. 

When I started playing, there were alerts for all the stuff that's in NW, and there were also bi-weekly GotL alerts.  They only run those when they do a devstream though and for one reason or another they have decided to pretty much only do about one devstream a month these days, so those alerts are few and far between now.  I have a feeling that's also on purpose. 

I'm not saying the RNG of alerts didn't need to go.  But Chorewave isn't a good solution either.  It's not player friendly in the slightest and it's more work and resources spent on the Dev's part.  The only way something like that gets implemented is if whoever manages things is completely and totally incompetent or if the numbers show that there's more money to be made with the new system.  What else can it be?  That they wanted to give us a cool, fun new system that in no way benefits them?  Then why the hell are there NW challenges that literally require 10+ missions to get a fraction of the standing required to rank up to get a fraction of the credits required to purchase anything other than Nitain?  It's 10x the work of alerts, there's no way anyone "did this for the players."  

There's a reason they won't extend the NW cap or just take the cap off.  There's a reason they're spreading the story portion so unbelievably thin.  There's a reason they keep adding more and more arbitrary waiting periods to everything and making grind take longer.  It's about money.  Always has been.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

When I started playing, there were alerts for all the stuff that's in NW, and there were also bi-weekly GotL alerts.  They only run those when they do a devstream though and for one reason or another they have decided to pretty much only do about one devstream a month these days, so those alerts are few and far between now.  I have a feeling that's also on purpose. 

I'm not saying the RNG of alerts didn't need to go.  But Chorewave isn't a good solution either.  It's not player friendly in the slightest and it's more work and resources spent on the Dev's part.  The only way something like that gets implemented is if whoever manages things is completely and totally incompetent or if the numbers show that there's more money to be made with the new system.  What else can it be?  That they wanted to give us a cool, fun new system that in no way benefits them?  Then why the hell are there NW challenges that literally require 10+ missions to get a fraction of the standing required to rank up to get a fraction of the credits required to purchase anything other than Nitain?  It's 10x the work of alerts, there's no way anyone "did this for the players."  

There's a reason they won't extend the NW cap or just take the cap off.  There's a reason they're spreading the story portion so unbelievably thin.  There's a reason they keep adding more and more arbitrary waiting periods to everything and making grind take longer.  It's about money.  Always has been.

It's about minimizing their workload. Stretching content incredibly thin is both a cause and symptom of creating little content. Create little content and spread it thin. Spread it thin so that you don't have to create as much content. It's not that they don't make a lot of content overall (considering all the stuff they make, i.e. open worlds, other story-driven content), but Nightwave has little content.

That's why I think they should start to integrate various aspects of their game with Nightwave. It gives players content and a reason to play, while putting it in a format that's proven at this point to drive player engagement (just looking at other successful battle pass systems), all while having that content tied together thematically. The way Modern Warfare integrates their post-launch content with their battle pass system is how I'd like DE to handle it: use their major narrative content (i.e. quests and/or open worlds) as the vehicle through which to present Nightwave seasons (could even be multiple seasons in a series, designated as Episodes), and link associated content to this system.

As well, every activity in the game should reward Nightwave standing, with season-related content (daily/weekly tasks, quests, and open world bounties/activities) rewarding the most. In exchange, we could have more Nightwave levels. That would drive player engagement, encouraging players at any level to play the game (and whatever modes they enjoy), while providing an incentive to engage with the most recently-added content. It would also ensure that Nightwave is frequently updated, as virtually all content would be directly or indirectly tied to it.

Edited by OniDax
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

There are other methods for making money besides purposefully worsening existing grind to squeeze your players.  

You high or something?

People have been getting stuff that costs 20 plat for free, but somehow in your head that's how you get more money from people? The alerts sucked. You literally couldn't do the majority of the alerts in a day without playing throughout the whole day. You had to make yourself available to play 24/7 or accept that you would not be able to get all of the things you wanted. 

For many of us, potatoes were a major sticking point as far as growing our power went, when we were new. They reliably showed up once a fortnight at best. Otherwise they were frigging unicorns. And alertium? If you got lucky you might see 2 a day when you were playing. Vauban? Again if you were lucky you might get all of his parts in a few days of play, or you might be trying to get him for a month, and just missing the alerts. 

With nightwave we get triply rewarded for doing the things we already do, once for the mission we did it in, once in the rewards for the first 30 tiers, and once again in the cred store. But you think that's "increasing the grind"? That's a ridiculous thing for you to say. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-10-01 at 8:29 AM, Felsagger said:

 

This is not a problem. They are taking their time to round it up. We are in the middle of pandemic times. Everything ended upside down. I would not be so harsh with them. I finished NW episode without doing the four chapters. I'm still waiting for chapter five to play them all at once. 

 

I feel that the working from home excuse has run its course. Exception made for people in the sound department who may not have access all the time to their studio. Yes it was normal for things to slow down for a month or two, while they figured out the dynamic of working from home, but by now, it should be back close to normal, if not back to it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-09-22 at 5:51 AM, Loza03 said:

Reminder: people asked for a more in-depth nightwave.

People did not like the Nightwave that was easy to develop, quick to produce, a low-budget, low ambitious thing. They complained that they did not feel involved.

 

We, as a community literally asked for this. Or more accurately, a very loud subsection did and the people who disagreed were not as loud.

Nightwave is still all of these things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Cyanil said:

I feel that the working from home excuse has run its course. Exception made for people in the sound department who may not have access all the time to their studio. Yes it was normal for things to slow down for a month or two, while they figured out the dynamic of working from home, but by now, it should be back close to normal, if not back to it.

Working from home is not the same as working in the studio with all the facilities. Things are going to slow down. It's happening for everybody. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cyanil said:

I feel that the working from home excuse has run its course. Exception made for people in the sound department who may not have access all the time to their studio. Yes it was normal for things to slow down for a month or two, while they figured out the dynamic of working from home, but by now, it should be back close to normal, if not back to it.

You live in one of those countries where the whole "global pandemic" thing isn't been taken seriously, don't you? Ontario takes it seriously and literally just tightened their restrictions again on Friday

I am fortunate to have been able to make an easy transition because of what I do, but if you think for an instant that my company's productivity hasn't taken a serious hit let me disabuse you of that notion. We're a diverse group of people who all specialize in different fields. While there's some overlap for a few of us, we often need to toss ideas around just to see if what we're thinking of doing is going to work. People stop by and share ideas all the time just because they can see and hear what everyone else is working on and might have an insight that would be helpful. Working as a team, we're greater than just the sum of the individuals working separately. 

If that doesn't apply to you, and your job, great. Stay safe, wash your hands, wear your mask, and keep it up. But don't go around believing that things are going to be anywhere near "close to normal" for everyone else. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Nightwave is still all of these things.

I mean, for reference, WoSS had the barest handful of new assets. Nora's, the Wolf, his hammer, the armour, the mask the WoSS and Nightwave sigil, the emotes and the Scrawl. Almost everything else was re-used, and most of its new stuff was itself re-usable (like Nora's 'regular' dialogue)

Glassmaker has way more Audio overall, most of which can't be re-used and from multiple voice actors, all the typical new assets for rewards including some which need animations, at least one new character asset (I think the culprits were probably re-used) and then the all the assets for an entirely new and fancy-schmancy area plus all it's animations, some of which need their own assets (specifically glass fragment models) and so forth.

In short, this nightwave alone was probably a comparable amount of work to the first one in terms of raw stuff they had to make, but without any of the long-term investment. A large chunk of WoSS could be re-used, since it wasn't episode-specific, after all. And that's not accounting for any further hiccups.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-10-03 at 10:57 AM, Felsagger said:

Some items abounds without any need for them. The important ones are always scarce. It's basic design for farming. I'm aware of it. Catalysts should be more abundant and exilus adapters. The rest are just fodder for credits. Forma, Catalysts and adapters should be the random rewards on the alerts. People will play more often for these. The rests are trivial. People who are in high MRs should have better probabilities getting these. Once they outgrow the game they want more attention in their hardware. 

And that's by design, they want us to play more to get better rewards. I've seen people complain about the drop rates in this game, but we have ridiculously high drop rates compared to some items in other games. That's why forma, and potatoes were actually rare during alerts, most of them were cruft like credits, or mods that we only needed one of, or the 50th copy of a helmet that you could only use one of, if you chose to use it at all. They're not going to have an alert system that just doles those out in abundance. Not ever.

On 2020-10-03 at 11:01 AM, DoomFruit said:

What should the maximum number of obtainable credits be, then? The question here is whether that's a hard cap of "you get X credits for your entire life, no more" or "you get Y credits per week". With a hard cap of what nightwave level you can achieve, it's the former. If the intent is the latter for any reason (eg. they design for players to be able to get A potatoes every B weeks in nightwave), then a fixed cap of nightwave levels only works if each nightwave season has a guaranteed end date and the next one is guaranteed to start on that same date.

Except that it's not a matter of "in your life" but rather "in this season". And they clearly gave us a maximum number for a season that you can count up for yourself. You hit that maximum well ahead of the end date (which you could have seen was going to happen pretty early on was going to be long, because of how each of the 5 segments were coming over time).

 

On 2020-10-03 at 11:01 AM, DoomFruit said:

Honestly, I don't care about the available rewards. If they had forma on the list, I'd be much more interested. I'm just annoyed at the ever-growing list of things which need to be manually changed and tweaked to make them fit into place. Everything here is done on a computer. If it can be automated, it should be. All the time spent doing what is essentially manual labour (as opposed to just defining an acceptable rate of eternal nightwave credit income and having the maximum achievable rank automatically tick up as a function of time since the nightwave season start) is time not spent on fixing bugs and polishing the game.

Then you honestly have no complaint. Because if you don't care for the rewards, skip it. Just like we always skipped the majority of the alerts. No loss to you, so no harm done.👍

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

You going to defend every predatory practice and bad decision from every developer out there because "everyone has to eat" or is it just this one that's allowed to get away with it.

There are other methods for making money besides purposefully worsening existing grind to squeeze your players.  

Yeah, like... they could just charge us $60 up front for the game, then $20-50 per DLC expansion, then $25 for each NW "BattlePass Season", and not to mention every Prime being a $5-10 DLC.   I mean, that's how MOST games do it... 

But nope, it's all free... even the PREMIUM CURRENCY can be traded... FREE.  

So, if they drag it out a tad bit DURING A PANDEMIC, whilst also hoping you maybe toss them 20 plat for a potato once in awhile (what's that, like.. USD $1?) so they can provide for their 220+ Employees that do NOT work for a charity...  

I don't see how what they're doing is "predatory" in the least.  It's business.

19 hours ago, Cyanil said:

I feel that the working from home excuse has run its course. Exception made for people in the sound department who may not have access all the time to their studio. Yes it was normal for things to slow down for a month or two, while they figured out the dynamic of working from home, but by now, it should be back close to normal, if not back to it.

Oh, did you discover the cure to Covid19 or something?  Because for the rest of the waking world, the pandemic is still very much a live issue and has in no way "died down" to "normal".

Many assets are required, due to NDAs and trade secrets and all that, to stay AT the studio and CANNOT be brought home to work on.  The few people that DO work from home have, also, to now juggle with space for both work AND possible pets/children/spouses/parents, etc.  Some may even (Ordis-forbid) be -sick- and unable to work as productively.  Many do not have access to the same computers OR level of tech at home as they had in the office... (My PC would die if it tried to open 3D model rendering programs... Spotify causes it to crap out sometimes :P)

So yeah, no... it ain't "normal".   Your impatience does not dictate objective reality.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You live in one of those countries where the whole "global pandemic" thing isn't been taken seriously, don't you? Ontario takes it seriously and literally just tightened their restrictions again on Friday

I am fortunate to have been able to make an easy transition because of what I do, but if you think for an instant that my company's productivity hasn't taken a serious hit let me disabuse you of that notion. We're a diverse group of people who all specialize in different fields. While there's some overlap for a few of us, we often need to toss ideas around just to see if what we're thinking of doing is going to work. People stop by and share ideas all the time just because they can see and hear what everyone else is working on and might have an insight that would be helpful. Working as a team, we're greater than just the sum of the individuals working separately. 

If that doesn't apply to you, and your job, great. Stay safe, wash your hands, wear your mask, and keep it up. But don't go around believing that things are going to be anywhere near "close to normal" for everyone else. 

Thank you, sincerely, for continuing to be a voice of reason on this thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And that's by design, they want us to play more to get better rewards. I've seen people complain about the drop rates in this game, but we have ridiculously high drop rates compared to some items in other games. That's why forma, and potatoes were actually rare during alerts, most of them were cruft like credits, or mods that we only needed one of, or the 50th copy of a helmet that you could only use one of, if you chose to use it at all. They're not going to have an alert system that just doles those out in abundance. Not ever.

 

Plague Star. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...