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Loki Rework


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Hi

A sinergy between Decoy and Switch teleport could be nice. You teleport a Bombard, your next decoy is a static Bombard.

Changing shape with the target of Switch teleport could be good too. Let's say for 3s, your target look like Loki and get shoot and for 3s you look like your target and pal of your ennemies.

Also his augment for Decoy are useless. His weak Decoy can kill him for 9 modding points? Really?

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33 minutes ago, (PSN)FromOtherSpace said:

A sinergy between Decoy and Switch teleport could be nice. You teleport a Bombard, your next decoy is a static Bombard.

That wouldn't make sense if the decoy was an enemy, but it sounds interesting. You Switch Teleport with an enemy and steal their gun to give to Decoy? You could probably add a damage multiplier there, and actually (for the first time in forever) give Loki players a reason to mod for strength.

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32 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

You Switch Teleport with an enemy and steal their gun to give to Decoy?

That's a very cool idea.  Can you think of anything to give to an Infested Decoy?  Maybe a huge health bonus?  (Or Duration if we end up going the invulnerable Decoy route.)

Stealing/copying auras could be pretty neat too.

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I'm gonna sugest a little "rework" of Loki that wouldn't change him much, but would make him a little more useful. Because nobody is suggesting actual significant changes, just complaints.

1. Decoy: Merge it with Switch Teleport, as the two abilities combined are really useful for some spy missions. Hold to place the Decoy, tap to instantly Switch Teleport to the Decoy, tap while aiming at an enemy or an ally to Switch Teleport with them. Also, make Decoy much more durable.

2. Invisibility: No changes, maybe a visual change to make the invisibility more "special".

3. New ability: Trickery: Aim at an enemy and cast the ability to make the other enemies around it to attack it, giving full priority to that enemy for 30 seconds or until the affected enemy dies.

4. Radial Disarm: No changes.

Passive: Enemies have a harder time noticing Loki when he's visible, making Loki 50% slower to notice. Also, he keeps wall latch duration passive, just because Lua Spy missions exists.

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6 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

3. New ability: Trickery: Aim at an enemy and cast the ability to make the other enemies around it to attack it, giving full priority to that enemy for 30 seconds or until the affected enemy dies.

Isn't that just Decoy, but on a target that can actually survive?

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not main, I use only invisibility, my personal suggestions for current skills are:

invisibility

  • must be visible similar to Wisp, no enemy should collide with loki and if loki is inside an enemy the invisibility time is interrupted, visually this will be similar to the baruk hited by shots

radial disarming

  • needs to have increased range as it becomes useless when the build is focused on invisibility and if the build is focused on radial disarming the loki cannot survive the most distant enemies.

decoy

  • is an ologram and must be temporal, decoy must not have its own health and must resist shots; the decoy must attract the attention of all types of enemies including bosses and common enemies looking at decoil must be opened to finishers from behind
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There is nothing wrong with Loki. Leave Loki alone. Reb has talked about usage stats in the past and it seems veterans use(d?) Loki (Prime) as a top 5 frame by play time.

If a player wants to 'adjust' Loki then consume an ability from another frame as you desire.

This is Warframe...use the frame that fits the mission type and your play style the best. If that means 90% of missions you run Loki and 10% you run Mesa...fine. But if you use Mesa 90% and Loki 10%...well...fine.

Having played Loki as a starter frame on...as the tutorial text said...it is a difficult frame...meaning it requires time to learn 'best practices'...but this seems true for other frames as well.

Leave Loki alone and "fix" other frames.

 

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5 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

This is Warframe...use the frame that fits the mission type and your play style the best. If that means 90% of missions you run Loki and 10% you run Mesa...fine. But if you use Mesa 90% and Loki 10%...well...fine.

And if the only time you use Hydroid is to Pilfer farm like Tellurium or something that means Hydroid is... fine?

Yeah, I'm not buying this line of argument.

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Il y a 8 heures, GreyDeath789 a dit :

There is nothing wrong with Loki. Leave Loki alone. Reb has talked about usage stats in the past and it seems veterans use(d?) Loki (Prime) as a top 5 frame by play time.

He was my starter, I was a Loki men for years, he's still in my top 5, I love him but Decoy and Switch teleport could be better/more useful with some adjustements. Honestly I m sad to see Saryn Molt and Octavia Mallet doing the same as Decoy but 10 time longer (because their things dont die on 1st bullet) and better (for aggro). Same things for ST and Wukong 2nd (I dont remember its name) which move you, heal you and CC at the end (Just add this 2 meter CC and ST get far more useful!).

For me Loki is fun to play but he could be more.

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Posted (edited)

So, as promised:

Decoy

  • Decoy is invulnerable (but still fully targetable), at the cost of its base duration being reduced to 7/10/12/15 seconds (from 7/15/20/25) - Note that making it invulnerable is not exactly necessary, but I think it would certainly spice up its usefulness overall.
  • Recasting the ability midduration "detonates" the Decoy.
  • If the Deocy is detonated or expires, it causes a blinding effect around it. This blind has a 4/5/6/7 meter radius (Range-moddable), a 4/5/6/7 second duration (Duration-moddable) and will open enemies to finishers.
  • Augment: Saviour Decoy - On top of its current effect, it also increases the duration of the Decoy by 10/20/30/50%
  • Augment: Deceptive Bond - In PvE, the Decoy just absorbs damage from Loki (i.e. the Decoy-to-Loki damage is removed), and it also increases the blinding radius by 25/50/75/100%.

Invisibility

  • Holdcasting the ability midduration will end it early (this should be a thing for MOST buffs, imo - it shouldn't feel necessary to jump down holes or run into Nullifiers to turn off abilities)

Switch Teleport

  • Tapcast = Casts the ability as normal
  • Holdcast = Teleport to your Decoy without needing to target the Decoy, as long as the Decoy is within casting range. This works even through walls, as long as it doesn't "backwards progress" you during particular scripted fights and such.
  • Cast on ally = If Loki casts it on an ally (or a Decoy if it's not made invulnerable), the ally gets a lengthy survivability buff (damage reduction or evasion, something like that), and Loki gets heavily reduced aggro for the same duration.
  • Cast on enemy = If Loki casts it on an enemy, the enemy gets a longlasting Duration-moddable high-aggro Radiation-proc on them (with a Chaos-esque hologram on them, so the enemy looks like Loki) and Loki gets a Disguise-effect on him for the same duration (he will have a hologram over him, to symbolize looking like the enemy he swapped with) - to enemies it looks like you never swapped in the first place!
    • Note: If the enemy is not alerted, it will not get the Radiation-proc on it. However, Loki still gets the Disguise.
    • The Disguise-effect is basicly invisibility, but wears off immediately if you attack anyone while visible. You can still cast any ability without losing the Disguise, however.
  • Cast on objects = Loki can now swap with things like explosive barrels too. It's treated like an enemy (i.e. if enemies are alerted, it gets a longlasting Radiation-proc on it so enemies will attack it)
  • Augment: Safeguard Switch Tangled Switch - Augment upgraded with added effects (hence the renaming):
    • 1) If cast on allies = It makes the ally briefly invulnerable, just like now
    • 2) If cast on enemies / objects / Decoy = Places a binding tether on the enemy/object/Decoy, for 5/7/9/12 seconds (Duration-moddable). This tether has multiple effects:
      • At any time an enemy or your Decoy gets within 8/10/12/15 meters (Range-moddable) of the tether, it will be latched onto it and dragged closer to the centre
        • NOTE: The tether is placed on the target BEFORE the teleport-swap, so if you for example switch an enemy who is amidst more enemies, they will all be teleported to the swapped location!
      • This tether remains in place for its full duration, even after the switch-target might've died (including if it's placed on the Decoy and the Decoy is removed in any way)
      • Can max tether up to 4/6/8/10 enemies at once
      • It causes 15/25/35/50% (Strength-moddable, capped at 100%) of all damage taken to be shared among all the tethered enemies.
        • NOTE: If it tethers to a Decoy, then the Decoy can share its damage taken to any other tethered enemies too (even though it's invulnerable)
      • Max 1 tether can be used at a time. Recasting the ability removes the old tether before placing a new one.

Sidenote here: I feel the Tangled Switch augment, at least its tether without the damageshare-effect, could almost be made baseline to the ability, as it really fits the mischief theme to mass teleport enemies around and keep them in stuck together and such.

Radial Disarm

  • On top of its current effects, it also adds a debuff on enemies for 10/15/20/25 seconds (Duration-moddable), causing any damage the affected enemies do, to also be dealt to themselves, with a 200/250/300/350% amplification, (Strength-moddable). This works on ALL enemies, including bosses, melee units and anything non-disarmable.
  • Synergy potential: Casting Radial Disarm while a Decoy is active causes the Radial Disarm-effect to also emminate from the Decoy's position!
Edited by Azamagon
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On 2020-09-22 at 12:24 AM, WindKitsune said:

I'm still a Loki main at heart and would definitely enjoy a good rework. All of his abilities are very situational and, while they are not bad, in a game where the main theme is 'kill everything fast', Loki's kit is outshined.

Sounds to me like DE needs to move away from "kill everything fast" instead of turning Loki into perhaps another press-4-to-win nuke frame.

His kit was fine for its time, but the game's meta has shifted away from "do, well, anything" to "DAMAGE! MORE DAMAGE! NO DEFENSE OR CC, YOU DON'T NEED IT IF THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GOTTA GO FAST!"

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il y a 43 minutes, Azamagon a dit :

So, as promised:

Decoy

  • Decoy is invulnerable (but still fully targetable), at the cost of its base duration being reduced to 7/10/12/15 seconds (from 7/15/20/25) - Note that making it invulnerable is not exactly necessary, but I think it would certainly spice up its usefulness overall.
  • Recasting the ability midduration "detonates" the Decoy.
  • If the Deocy is detonated or expires, it causes a blinding effect around it. This blind has a 4/5/6/7 meter radius (Range-moddable), a 4/5/6/7 second duration (Duration-moddable) and will open enemies to finishers.
  • Augment: Saviour Decoy - On top of its current effect, it also increases the duration of the Decoy by 10/20/30/50%
  • Augment: Deceptive Bond - In PvE, the Decoy just absorbs damage from Loki (i.e. the Decoy-to-Loki damage is removed), and it also increases the blinding radius by 25/50/75/100%.

Invisibility

  • Holdcasting the ability midduration will end it early (this should be a thing for MOST buffs, imo - it shouldn't feel necessary to jump down holes or run into Nullifiers to turn off abilities)

Switch Teleport

  • Tapcast = Casts the ability as normal
  • Holdcast = Teleport to your Decoy without needing to target the Decoy, as long as the Decoy is within casting range. This works even through walls, as long as it doesn't "backwards progress" you during particular scripted fights and such.
  • Cast on ally or decoy = If Loki casts it on an ally, the ally gets a lengthy survivability buff (damage reduction or evasion, something like that), and Loki gets heavily reduced aggro for the same duration.
  • Cast on enemy = If Loki casts it on an enemy, the enemy gets a longlasting Duration-moddable high-aggro Radiation-proc on them (with a Chaos-esque hologram on them, so the enemy looks like Loki) and Loki gets a Disguise-effect on him for the same duration (he will have a hologram over him, looking like the enemy he swapped with) - to enemies it looks like you never swapped in the first place!
    • Note: If the enemy is not alerted, it will not get the Radiation-proc on it. However, Loki still gets the Disguise.
    • The Disguise-effect is basicly invisibility, but wears off immediately if you attack anyone while visible. You can still cast any ability without losing the Disguise, however.
  • Cast on objects = Loki can now swap with things like explosive barrels too. It's treated like an enemy (i.e. if enemies are alerted, it gets a longlasting Radiation-proc on it so enemies will attack it)
  • Augment: Safeguard Switch Tangled Switch - Augment upgraded with added effects (hence the renaming):
    • 1) If cast on allies = It makes the ally briefly invulnerable, just like now
    • 2) If cast on enemies / objects / Decoy = Places a binding tether on the enemy/object/Decoy, for 5/7/9/12 second (Duration-moddable). This tether has multiple effects:
      • At any time an enemy or your Decoy gets within 8/10/12/15 meters (Range-moddable) of the tether, it will be latched onto it and dragged closer to the centre
        • NOTE: The tether is placed on the target BEFORE the teleport-swap, so if you for example switch an enemy who is amidst more enemies, they will all be teleported to the swapped location!
      • This tether remains in place for its full duration, even after the switch-target might've died (including if it's placed on the Decoy and the Decoy is removed in any way)
      • Can max tether up to 4/6/8/10 enemies at once
      • It causes 15/25/35/50% (Strength-moddable, capped at 100%) of all damage taken to be shared among all the tethered enemies.
        • NOTE: If it tethers to a Decoy, then the Decoy can share its damage taken to any other tethered enemies too (even though it's invulnerable)
      • Max 1 tether can be used at a time. Recasting the ability removes the old tether before placing a new one.

Sidenote here: I feel the Tangled Switch augment, at least its tether without the damageshare-effect, could almost be made baseline to the ability, as it really fits the mischief theme to mass teleport enemies around and keep them in stuck together and such.

Radial Disarm

  • On top of its current effects, it also adds a debuff on enemies for 10/15/20/25 seconds (Duration-moddable), causing any damage the affected enemies do, to also be dealt to themselves, with a 200/250/300/350% amplification, (Strength-moddable). This works on ALL enemies, including bosses, melee units and anything non-disarmable.
  • Synergy potential: Casting Radial Disarm while a Decoy is active causes the Radial Disarm-effect to also emminate from the Decoy's position!

First of all : Thank you, you are someone of words and it's wonderful to see that they still exist 😄

Second : All yours suggestions sound greats! You keep it on theme (manipulating the battlfield), add some nice CC with enough range, your sinergy seem fun to use and also those make Loki more versatile (I really like your Tangled Switch augment! I want it! I want it now!) without making him a god.

Maybe your % are too strong? A full power Loki(1) as you describe could give a 1000% damage buff?

(1) I feel dumb just by writing this... A power only Loki...

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, (PSN)FromOtherSpace said:

First of all : Thank you, you are someone of words and it's wonderful to see that they still exist 😄

Second : All yours suggestions sound greats! You keep it on theme (manipulating the battlfield), add some nice CC with enough range, your sinergy seem fun to use and also those make Loki more versatile (I really like your Tangled Switch augment! I want it! I want it now!) without making him a god.

Maybe your % are too strong? A full power Loki(1) as you describe could give a 1000% damage buff?

(1) I feel dumb just by writing this... A power only Loki...

Heh, being wordy is kind of a detriment these days when people have like 0 attention-span though - but I'm so glad that someone appreciates it! ^_^

And glad you liked the suggestions! ^_^ Yeah I tried my best to spice things up as thematically and mischieviously as possible: Damage reflect, blinds and mild chaotic CC seems pretty on point to be effects Loki would cause.

I also really like the Tangled Switch augment, and almost want that - even if partially - to be the base ability hehehe... but then you lose the pinpoint swaps, which some people might hate to lose, so I made it all 100% into an augment.

Well, maybe the damage reflection number on Radial Disarm is a tad high and could be scaled down a notch if necessary, but do consider it versus Mallet, a 25 energy ability with similar values (and Strength-scalable too). Also, if damage reflection is to be made viable, they NEED to be high (as proven by Mallet).

And the fact that you CAN go Strength with Loki is intended with my suggestions - I feel that's kinda the point of modding, that you mod for whatever you prefer, rather than having a stat like Strength entirely considered a dump-stat.

Edited by Azamagon
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On 2021-05-27 at 7:11 PM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

That wouldn't make sense if the decoy was an enemy, but it sounds interesting. You Switch Teleport with an enemy and steal their gun to give to Decoy? You could probably add a damage multiplier there, and actually (for the first time in forever) give Loki players a reason to mod for strength.

 

On 2021-05-27 at 7:48 PM, Tiltskillet said:

That's a very cool idea.  Can you think of anything to give to an Infested Decoy?  Maybe a huge health bonus?  (Or Duration if we end up going the invulnerable Decoy route.)

Stealing/copying auras could be pretty neat too.

Honestly I think it could be something similar to Xata's Whisper by simply giving the decoy a weapon based on the enemy targeted.

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On 2021-05-29 at 12:44 PM, ElecDeathblade said:

I'm gonna sugest a little "rework" of Loki that wouldn't change him much, but would make him a little more useful. Because nobody is suggesting actual significant changes, just complaints.

1. Decoy: Merge it with Switch Teleport, as the two abilities combined are really useful for some spy missions. Hold to place the Decoy, tap to instantly Switch Teleport to the Decoy, tap while aiming at an enemy or an ally to Switch Teleport with them. Also, make Decoy much more durable.

2. Invisibility: No changes, maybe a visual change to make the invisibility more "special".

3. New ability: Trickery: Aim at an enemy and cast the ability to make the other enemies around it to attack it, giving full priority to that enemy for 30 seconds or until the affected enemy dies.

4. Radial Disarm: No changes.

Passive: Enemies have a harder time noticing Loki when he's visible, making Loki 50% slower to notice. Also, he keeps wall latch duration passive, just because Lua Spy missions exists.

This is actually very well thought out and like the sound of this better.

20 hours ago, Famecans said:

not main, I use only invisibility, my personal suggestions for current skills are:

invisibility

  • must be visible similar to Wisp, no enemy should collide with loki and if loki is inside an enemy the invisibility time is interrupted, visually this will be similar to the baruk hited by shots

radial disarming

  • needs to have increased range as it becomes useless when the build is focused on invisibility and if the build is focused on radial disarming the loki cannot survive the most distant enemies.

decoy

  • is an ologram and must be temporal, decoy must not have its own health and must resist shots; the decoy must attract the attention of all types of enemies including bosses and common enemies looking at decoil must be opened to finishers from behind

Some pretty good suggestions.

20 hours ago, GreyDeath789 said:

There is nothing wrong with Loki. Leave Loki alone. Reb has talked about usage stats in the past and it seems veterans use(d?) Loki (Prime) as a top 5 frame by play time.

If a player wants to 'adjust' Loki then consume an ability from another frame as you desire.

This is Warframe...use the frame that fits the mission type and your play style the best. If that means 90% of missions you run Loki and 10% you run Mesa...fine. But if you use Mesa 90% and Loki 10%...well...fine.

Having played Loki as a starter frame on...as the tutorial text said...it is a difficult frame...meaning it requires time to learn 'best practices'...but this seems true for other frames as well.

Leave Loki alone and "fix" other frames.

 

As stated before: the direction in which the game is going in is more so gearing towards doing damage more than defending and CC. Again, there's a reason why frames like Chroma, Mesa, Saryn, and other DPS frames are used more than those of defense/CC.

19 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

And if the only time you use Hydroid is to Pilfer farm like Tellurium or something that means Hydroid is... fine?

Yeah, I'm not buying this line of argument.

Agreed.

4 hours ago, Azamagon said:

So, as promised:

Decoy

  • Decoy is invulnerable (but still fully targetable), at the cost of its base duration being reduced to 7/10/12/15 seconds (from 7/15/20/25) - Note that making it invulnerable is not exactly necessary, but I think it would certainly spice up its usefulness overall.
  • Recasting the ability midduration "detonates" the Decoy.
  • If the Deocy is detonated or expires, it causes a blinding effect around it. This blind has a 4/5/6/7 meter radius (Range-moddable), a 4/5/6/7 second duration (Duration-moddable) and will open enemies to finishers.
  • Augment: Saviour Decoy - On top of its current effect, it also increases the duration of the Decoy by 10/20/30/50%
  • Augment: Deceptive Bond - In PvE, the Decoy just absorbs damage from Loki (i.e. the Decoy-to-Loki damage is removed), and it also increases the blinding radius by 25/50/75/100%.

Invisibility

  • Holdcasting the ability midduration will end it early (this should be a thing for MOST buffs, imo - it shouldn't feel necessary to jump down holes or run into Nullifiers to turn off abilities)

Switch Teleport

  • Tapcast = Casts the ability as normal
  • Holdcast = Teleport to your Decoy without needing to target the Decoy, as long as the Decoy is within casting range. This works even through walls, as long as it doesn't "backwards progress" you during particular scripted fights and such.
  • Cast on ally = If Loki casts it on an ally (or a Decoy if it's not made invulnerable), the ally gets a lengthy survivability buff (damage reduction or evasion, something like that), and Loki gets heavily reduced aggro for the same duration.
  • Cast on enemy = If Loki casts it on an enemy, the enemy gets a longlasting Duration-moddable high-aggro Radiation-proc on them (with a Chaos-esque hologram on them, so the enemy looks like Loki) and Loki gets a Disguise-effect on him for the same duration (he will have a hologram over him, to symbolize looking like the enemy he swapped with) - to enemies it looks like you never swapped in the first place!
    • Note: If the enemy is not alerted, it will not get the Radiation-proc on it. However, Loki still gets the Disguise.
    • The Disguise-effect is basicly invisibility, but wears off immediately if you attack anyone while visible. You can still cast any ability without losing the Disguise, however.
  • Cast on objects = Loki can now swap with things like explosive barrels too. It's treated like an enemy (i.e. if enemies are alerted, it gets a longlasting Radiation-proc on it so enemies will attack it)
  • Augment: Safeguard Switch Tangled Switch - Augment upgraded with added effects (hence the renaming):
    • 1) If cast on allies = It makes the ally briefly invulnerable, just like now
    • 2) If cast on enemies / objects / Decoy = Places a binding tether on the enemy/object/Decoy, for 5/7/9/12 seconds (Duration-moddable). This tether has multiple effects:
      • At any time an enemy or your Decoy gets within 8/10/12/15 meters (Range-moddable) of the tether, it will be latched onto it and dragged closer to the centre
        • NOTE: The tether is placed on the target BEFORE the teleport-swap, so if you for example switch an enemy who is amidst more enemies, they will all be teleported to the swapped location!
      • This tether remains in place for its full duration, even after the switch-target might've died (including if it's placed on the Decoy and the Decoy is removed in any way)
      • Can max tether up to 4/6/8/10 enemies at once
      • It causes 15/25/35/50% (Strength-moddable, capped at 100%) of all damage taken to be shared among all the tethered enemies.
        • NOTE: If it tethers to a Decoy, then the Decoy can share its damage taken to any other tethered enemies too (even though it's invulnerable)
      • Max 1 tether can be used at a time. Recasting the ability removes the old tether before placing a new one.

Sidenote here: I feel the Tangled Switch augment, at least its tether without the damageshare-effect, could almost be made baseline to the ability, as it really fits the mischief theme to mass teleport enemies around and keep them in stuck together and such.

Radial Disarm

  • On top of its current effects, it also adds a debuff on enemies for 10/15/20/25 seconds (Duration-moddable), causing any damage the affected enemies do, to also be dealt to themselves, with a 200/250/300/350% amplification, (Strength-moddable). This works on ALL enemies, including bosses, melee units and anything non-disarmable.
  • Synergy potential: Casting Radial Disarm while a Decoy is active causes the Radial Disarm-effect to also emminate from the Decoy's position!

Holy mother, This is fantastic

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Sounds to me like DE needs to move away from "kill everything fast" instead of turning Loki into perhaps another press-4-to-win nuke frame.

His kit was fine for its time, but the game's meta has shifted away from "do, well, anything" to "DAMAGE! MORE DAMAGE! NO DEFENSE OR CC, YOU DON'T NEED IT IF THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GOTTA GO FAST!"

This is more or less the point I was trying to make before. Even others within the community (one who actually got the attention of DE) more or less said the exact same thing. The way how the game is, there's no room for CC/Utility frames like Loki, thus why I suggested the possibility of a rework in the first place.

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On 2021-05-29 at 10:14 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

And if the only time you use Hydroid is to Pilfer farm like Tellurium or something that means Hydroid is... fine?

Yeah, I'm not buying this line of argument.

Anyone that has played Warframe for a while knows that farming resources does not require min-max setups. The "perfect" frame to farm resources it the frame you enjoy playing.

But a question that might be worth getting the devs to answer is...which is better for resource gathering...a booster or a frame built to increase resource drops. Wonder what the benefit tradeoff is between a booster and running longer/more missions using a frame that can survive/complete those missions versus using a resource gathering focused frame build that may be less efficient at running longer/more missions.

Also, what line of argument is being sold? The one that says play the game the way you find enjoyment? That sure sounds like a bad argument to "sell"...sure sounds like a bad idea. Instead, play the game using the most min-max tailored setup even if it makes you physically ill because...well...min-max over enjoyment.

 

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On 2021-05-30 at 7:08 AM, (PSN)FromOtherSpace said:

 

He was my starter, I was a Loki men for years, he's still in my top 5, I love him but Decoy and Switch teleport could be better/more useful with some adjustements. Honestly I m sad to see Saryn Molt and Octavia Mallet doing the same as Decoy but 10 time longer (because their things dont die on 1st bullet) and better (for aggro). Same things for ST and Wukong 2nd (I dont remember its name) which move you, heal you and CC at the end (Just add this 2 meter CC and ST get far more useful!).

For me Loki is fun to play but he could be more.

These types of points have been made about Loki in the past and they mostly read (to me) to be "make Loki overpowered"...

YMMV, but for me Loki doesn't really need to change.

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On 2021-05-30 at 1:59 PM, Azamagon said:

So, as promised:

Decoy

Invisibility

Switch Teleport

Radial Disarm

Great writeup of suggestions. Still, not a proponent of changes.

Decoy - making it invul is pretty over powering but reducing the time might balance it out.

Invisibility - being able to drop the invis could certainly change some aspects of missions.

Switch Teleport - Holdcast seems like something to consider but the rest of this one seems far too powerful

Radial Disarm - Enemies self damaging themselves is over the top powerful and not reasonable IMO. Perhaps the option of a holdcast if you have a decoy out to send it to the decoy to give the player options.

Still, good thought out suggestions. Nice to see.

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On 2021-05-30 at 6:15 PM, 1up20xdey6 said:

As stated before: the direction in which the game is going in is more so gearing towards doing damage more than defending and CC. Again, there's a reason why frames like Chroma, Mesa, Saryn, and other DPS frames are used more than those of defense/CC.

Not claiming you or others are claiming DPS frames are "cheese" frames...but the "cheese" DPS frames make some (many/most?) missions trivial.

On some missions a Loki is overwhelmingly the top DPS frame (in overall damage and/or total kills) while other missions it is a "cheese" DPS frame. Still other missions it is just some player that has built a solid setup with frame/weapons to be  the "top" DPS player.

Once a "glass cannon" frame starts dropping to enemies it can end up that those 'lesser' (my words) frames that keep the mission running.

Play what you enjoy...learn how to leverage frames to beat missions...and grind for resources. In the end...that is really the important point.

Still, I say this...leave Loki alone and remove Limbo from the game! #RemoveLimboForever2021 #FramesPeopleDislike_Limbo2021 #SwampLandForSaleOnEarth2021

🤓

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Il y a 5 heures, GreyDeath789 a dit :

These types of points have been made about Loki in the past and they mostly read (to me) to be "make Loki overpowered"...

YMMV, but for me Loki doesn't really need to change.

Beautiful cherry picking 👌

 

Le 28/05/2021 à 03:35, (PSN)FromOtherSpace a dit :

Hi

A sinergy between Decoy and Switch teleport could be nice. You teleport a Bombard, your next decoy is a static Bombard.

Changing shape with the target of Switch teleport could be good too. Let's say for 3s, your target look like Loki and get shoot and for 3s you look like your target and pal of your ennemies.

Also his augment for Decoy are useless. His weak Decoy can kill him for 9 modding points? Really?

Anecdote : I was perplexe when Mesa was released. She was breaking WF system for me. I get her Prime lastly, I still dont have played the classic.

I dont want to see overpowered wf as you can see, it's true for any of them. I would love to see a rework which make Loki's kit usefull, not only 2 out of Spy mission. My proposal is a 1st which scale with ennemies lvl and a 3rd which is not kamikaze

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10 hours ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Also, what line of argument is being sold? The one that says play the game the way you find enjoyment?

The line of argument that just because a frame has an area of usage, they're fine.

On 2021-05-30 at 5:05 AM, GreyDeath789 said:

There is nothing wrong with Loki. (...) This is Warframe...use the frame that fits the mission type and your play style the best. If that means 90% of missions you run Loki and 10% you run Mesa...fine. But if you use Mesa 90% and Loki 10%...well...fine.

Which, as said, is a very stupid line of argument. Another example, pre-rework Wukong was my go-to frame for killing Wolf before his nerfs. Did that mean that Wukong was "fine", that there was "nothing wrong with" him? Lol no. He was an awful frame with a single ability that gave him some area of usage. Loki's basically in the same boat - with the exception of a single ability that gives him some relevance, he has one of the most pitiful kits to date. 

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On 2020-09-21 at 1:56 PM, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

Passive: For the love of Loki, Thor and all norse gods - please change that useless passive. A trickery-themed frame surely has way more potential as far as fun passives go. Even a chance at auto-hack would be better, even if I wouldn't find that specific passive useful.

Passive Concept: Enhanced Agility. Loki's parkour speed recieves a significant increase, and loki's aim latch and wall glide time are boosted along with it. It's basically an expanded version of his current passive.

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