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[Suggestion/Idea] Workbench for modular weapons.


IDzer0

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Hi!

Don't you think that a workbench for Zaws, Kitguns and Amps would be awesome? I know that it may reduce overall formas used by players from that point, but don't you believe it would give a nice boost for both new and veteran players?

Imagine being able to approach some sort of workbench, choose a weapon and start modifying it. I much enjoyed such feature in Metro Exodus. Think about various additions like scopes, secondary fire mode (grenade launchers, laser beams, etc.).

What is your opinion?

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On 2020-09-21 at 10:18 PM, Teksorbkyva said:

hat's how I had hoped pre-gilded weapons would work when they said you can try combinations before deciding on one

and yet here we are :(

Yeah, me too. At least we have Helminth which is more customizable than weapons.

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44 minutes ago, IDzer0 said:
23 hours ago, quxier said:

 

Helminth is good, but let us focus on weapons in this thread. Storm it with ideas.

I see it as a Lego's interlocking plastic bricks. You build a brick named AA and you can use the AA in every future weapon. It shouldn't cost anything, or at least some small number of credits.
There should be some base components like, for melees, blade or shaft and some additional that depends on weapon type. For example you build spikes for your hammer-type weapon. You either:
a) should be able to put on another weapon
b) or it should change size/shape to a "weapon type" (spikes on sword-type weapon should be much smaller)
There should be material that affects basic things. For example you use oxium then it swing faster but it lacks damage. You use alloy - it hits harder but slower.
I wish we could change size, and again, it would affect base stats.
Aside from normal additions, we should be able to add "exotic" one. For example spore-addtion gives you gas/toxin damage proc. Frost-addition makes enemies slower. Another one could steal enemies weapons/ammo/health/energy/something. It should be 1-2 exotic addition available for each weapon.
 

Quote

Kid, honestly, I can go on and on

 

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29 minutes ago, quxier said:

I see it as a Lego's interlocking plastic bricks. You build a brick named AA and you can use the AA in every future weapon. It shouldn't cost anything, or at least some small number of credits.
There should be some base components like, for melees, blade or shaft and some additional that depends on weapon type. For example you build spikes for your hammer-type weapon. You either:
a) should be able to put on another weapon
b) or it should change size/shape to a "weapon type" (spikes on sword-type weapon should be much smaller)
There should be material that affects basic things. For example you use oxium then it swing faster but it lacks damage. You use alloy - it hits harder but slower.
I wish we could change size, and again, it would affect base stats.
Aside from normal additions, we should be able to add "exotic" one. For example spore-addtion gives you gas/toxin damage proc. Frost-addition makes enemies slower. Another one could steal enemies weapons/ammo/health/energy/something. It should be 1-2 exotic addition available for each weapon.
 

 

Okay, then with this one I believe it is a completely different mechanism. Something like "Weapon Helminth" system. I was thinking more like:
You assemble a Kitgun, but after you test it you'd like to change it's loader for a bit more ammo than it actually have. Then you decide to attach a grenade launcher.

So, the parts pool could be looking like this depending on weapon category:

  • Zaws:
    • Strikes
    • Links
    • Grips
    • Optional:
      • Grip enhancers (e.g. +Range / -Attack speed
      • Strike enhancers (e.g. +Impact / -Slash)
  • Kitguns:
    • Chambers
    • Grips
    • Loaders
    • Attachments:
      • Scopes
      • Grenade/rocket launchers, etc.
  • Amps:
    • Prisms
    • Scaffolds
    • Braces
    • Attachments:
      • Capacitors (e.g. +Energy pool / -Recharge time)
      • Enhancers (e.g. +Damage / -Energy pool)
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16 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

I was thinking more like:
You assemble a Kitgun, but after you test it you'd like to change it's loader for a bit more ammo than it actually have. Then you decide to attach a grenade launcher.

I think your version is just "inferior" to mine. I would be happy if we could at least do this (what you mentioned). Many people would be.

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5 hours ago, quxier said:

I think your version is just "inferior" to mine. I would be happy if we could at least do this (what you mentioned). Many people would be.

I wouldn't say inferior. If the description of weapon parts would be extended the idea of yours could mean no sense, taking into consideration that there are +Dmg/-Attack speed parts already. Lets take Zipneedle as an example and its in-game description:

Quote

Quickest load-speed with increased Critical Chance and lowered Status Chance.

Extended description:

Quote

Thanks to its light-weight Pyrotic Alloy-made components and reduced size, this loader provides quickest load-speed with least ammo capacity. Polished Smooth Phasmin shells packs increased Critical Chance and lowered Status Chance.

My suggestion is based on this:

Spoiler

 

 

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1 hour ago, IDzer0 said:

If the description of weapon parts would be extended the idea of yours could mean no sense,

Then make a description that fits for all weapon types, not only one.

1 hour ago, IDzer0 said:
Quote

Quickest load-speed with increased Critical Chance and lowered Status Chance.

Extended description:

Quote

Thanks to its light-weight Pyrotic Alloy-made components and reduced size, this loader provides quickest load-speed with least ammo capacity. Polished Smooth Phasmin shells packs increased Critical Chance and lowered Status Chance.

"Loader" can be still used for any weapon type (of course not melee, unless you mean gunblades).

1 hour ago, IDzer0 said:

My suggestion is based on this:

Mine suggestion isn't very different. I suggested pre-build parts used for creating new guns. You can swap parts anytime you want. That's the same core idea we both have (and metro exodus I believe).

I just added few things:
- you can install special additions only few times (you cannot have all special additions installed on one weapon)
- some weapon parts change size/shape for specific weapon (no need to build spike-hammer-part and spike-sword-part)
- you can build parts using different materials - and those materials affects stats

 

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57 minutes ago, quxier said:

Then make a description that fits for all weapon types, not only one.

I made description for a part of Kitgun. Having loaders in gunblades would be quite strange, don't you think? Shoot with gunblade 3 times and then you must reload for 1.2 sec or use melee attacks only. Additionally these weapons would require tons of code to make them work like that. If Kit-blades and Zaw-glaives would become a reality it could be done this way:

  • Kit-blades
    • Kitgun chamber
    • 1 or 2 Zaw strikes
    • Grip
    • Link
  • Zaw-glaives
    • 3 Zaw strikes
    • Grip
    • Link

Now I'll break down your additional ideas. I'm really glad that you're into this suggestion. Please don't get me wrong while you read my feedback. I analysed them very deeply with balance, workload and overall stability in mind.

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

- you can install special additions only few times (you cannot have all special additions installed on one weapon)

This may make configurable weapons too powerful compared to other ones. On the other hand if you make too many mistakes and can't roll it back it may make the weapon itself completely useless.

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

- some weapon parts change size/shape for specific weapon (no need to build spike-hammer-part and spike-sword-part)

That's a given, but don't you think that Kronsh strike would need to have some kind of holes drilled in it in order to install some spikes on? There are weapons that can't be changed for the sake of it's look or additional stats. Zaws are out of the question here, because the strikes already been pre-built so their look reflect their stats. Wouldn't mind if there would be some aesthetic additions, like feathers, etc. While additions are quite viable for Kronsh, Mewan and Cyath (for example) with spikes would look obscure on the other hand.

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

- you can build parts using different materials - and those materials affects stats

With this one I imagine some kind of sliders that allow you to choose between the materials you want to add in order to craft specific parts, provided there's a maximum cap of all materials used. This may be a serious problem and here's why:

  • Tons of code to make it working from workload standpoint.
  • Can be abused by players if not perfectly balanced and I totally mean it.
  • Loading missions would be a lot longer and may be unstable. Each such weapon equipped by each player makes millions if not billions of weapon variations.
  • Not optimisation friendly.
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3 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

This may make configurable weapons too powerful compared to other ones.

There is always need for a balance. That's how Zaws have been (what I have heard).

Quote

On the other hand if you make too many mistakes and can't roll it back it may make the weapon itself completely useless.

But you can change all parts.

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

That's a given, but don't you think that Kronsh strike would need to have some kind of holes drilled in it in order to install some spikes on?

It's a game. We don't need super realistic system. Additions, like spikes, could just "magically" appear on your weapon. Like when you mod a melee with heat... where that heat comes from? "It's a kind of magic".

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

While additions are quite viable for Kronsh, Mewan and Cyath (for example) with spikes would look obscure on the other hand.

That's subjective and Mewan has already "spikes".

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:
  • Tons of code to make it working from workload standpoint.

No. It's just part/material that changes some stats.

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

Can be abused by players if not perfectly balanced and I totally mean it.

A lot of things are unbalanced. It doesn't mean we cannot aspire to do it. I bet it won't happen but... I like the idea.

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

Loading missions would be a lot longer and may be unstable. Each such weapon equipped by each player makes millions if not billions of weapon variations.

You get only 4 players. 3 weapons per player. It's not more complex than your frame + attachments.

4 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

I made description for a part of Kitgun. Having loaders in gunblades would be quite strange, don't you think? Shoot with gunblade 3 times and then you must reload for 1.2 sec or use melee attacks only.

A gunblade was just example where it could be harder but not impossible to implement. It would require some extra code.

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On 2020-09-29 at 10:39 PM, quxier said:

It's a game. We don't need super realistic system. Additions, like spikes, could just "magically" appear on your weapon. Like when you mod a melee with heat... where that heat comes from? "It's a kind of magic".

Let us not put mods into this, because those always been a part of this game. Meddling with stats should be done only with spikes and other additions. For example if you put spikes on Kronsh this will have more Puncture and Impact than Slash (if any). If it comes to using different materials in the crafting process to alter the stats further - not really.

On 2020-09-29 at 10:39 PM, quxier said:

No. It's just part/material that changes some stats.

Look at all those Links and Loaders you can choose from and if you think that your idea does not require much code, then imagine calling one of billions player-made configuration instead of pre-made choices. Your idea in the code may look like this (I'll focus on metal and crystal resources for now):

Spoiler

Mewan(5_Fersteel_Alloy, 10_Oxium, 5_Cryotic); Vargeet_II_Ruhang(10_Auroxium_Alloy, 1_Fersteel_Alloy, 3_Oxium, 6_Pyrotic_Alloy); Shtung(10_Auroxium_Alloy, 5_Ferrite, 5_Rubedo, 7_Oxium, 3_Cryotic, 5_Pyrotic_Alloy, 5_Salvage, 10_Fersteel_Alloy, 2_Radian_Sentirum, 2_Gallium, 2_Tellurium, 2_Smooth_Phasmin, 2_Radiant_Zodian).

While currently it most likely looks like this:

Spoiler

Mewan, Vargeet_II_Ruhang, Shtung.

Now add mods to above examples. If you still think it's not much then multiply above examples by 3 so you get Primary Kitgun + Secondary Kitgun + Zaw then multiply it by 4 people in your squad or be it 3 additional players. Furthermore each resource would need to call its stat value so that makes it even more complicated. Then each configuration is saved on the server, so optimisation-wise it's a waste of space. Update on our PCs could even take few hundred megs + workbench system with textures, lighting and optional camera moves.

On 2020-09-29 at 10:39 PM, quxier said:

You get only 4 players. 3 weapons per player. It's not more complex than your frame + attachments.

I don't know if you're into programming and coding, but let me say it. Warframes, abilities, colors, attachments, syandanas, weapons, mods, pets, etc. are in the game folder on our PCs. Each of those are called by specific values from your current loadout then loaded and rendered by your game client.

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On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

Let us not put mods into this, because those always been a part of this game.

Mods was just a way to show that certain stats appears out of nowhere. It's not like a toxin mod put toxin fluid on your sword.
... however if you don't want this be modable then it should have a lot of parts/things and I don't see it coming (see kitguns).

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

Your idea in the code may look like this (I'll focus on metal and crystal resources for now):

It could be:

Quote

Mewan(Username>configX), Vargeet_II_Ruhang(Username>configX), Shtung(Username>configX).

 

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

10_Oxium

First, you don't need to specify quantity(10). It could be something like this:
- you have a PartA
- the PartA requires 100 ResourceX & 200 ResourceY
- you just need change above names for particular resources
- for example: PartA(Argon crystal, Cryotic)
 

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

Mewan(5_Fersteel_Alloy, 10_Oxium, 5_Cryotic)

Secondly, materials affects stats not how a weapon looks like. Given that fact, you can just pre-compute it's stats and save it for quick access. So, for example,

Quote

Mewan(Username>configX)

would just return some stats (e.g. {slash: 10 speed: 1.0}) and how it looks like (shape).

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

Furthermore each resource would need to call its stat value so that makes it even more complicated.

It's nothing that they couldn't handle.

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:

Then each configuration is saved on the server, so optimisation-wise it's a waste of space.

Yes, this would require more space. I'm not sure if it's worth but seeing so much stuffs that is just for "fashion" I don't think it would be total waste.
 

 

On 2020-10-02 at 3:40 PM, IDzer0 said:
On 2020-09-29 at 10:39 PM, quxier said:

 

I don't know if you're into programming and coding, but let me say it. Warframes, abilities, colors, attachments, syandanas, weapons, mods, pets, etc. are in the game folder on our PCs. Each of those are called by specific values from your current loadout then loaded and rendered by your game client.

Then adding this system won't change too much.
And, yeah, I'm into programming. I might not good at it (I haven't build anything huge) but seeing how much they waste things I wouldn't say that's completely unreasonable suggestion.

And you could probably optimize it even farther but... I don't have big knowledge in this topic.

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