Condition overload and Pressure Point (melee 3.0)

[GPrime96]

They don’t work with each other tbh. Using Pressure Point with Condition Overload is like using downgraded Heavy Caliber with a Serration if that mod could scale it’s damage since both Mods are flat damage. CO used to be multiplicative damage which made it synergize more with Pressure Point.

[KosmicKerman]

For those equipping weeping wounds what mod are you dropping for it: attack speed, combo count, range, crit damage, blood rush, or second element?

[Proscriptor]

 @Voltage

this my opinion about guandao and WW and/or CO viability:

26 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

yeah but what's the mechanism behind it - you would be buffing status chance to exactly what end?

to answer this myself - the result is that the weapon has 21.6% status chance with just weeping wounds and 26.4% sc with weeping wounds + 2x 60/60 elemental mods

this isn't good

if the goal is to make the weapon proc viral, this is pretty unsatisfactory, as you would proc a little bit of viral and a little bit of bleed neither amounting to much DoT

if the goal is to make the weapon just proc bleed (by omitting cold and tox mods), this is also unsatisfactory because it's just too few procs to be relevant compared to a raw damage build using primed fever strike (pure toxin or corrosive depending on faction)

guandao can still proc bleed but it doesn't do so by virtue of natural procs, but forced procs from twirling spire neutral combo

with 2/5 hits proccing guaranteed slash (and notably they are on the first move), adding 21.6% proc chance on top brings little added value to the build; sure, it's something, but it costs a mod slot and it's incosistent

Combo Name	Button Combination			Length
Cresting Peak	300%  200%	300% 200%	400%	3.3s

 

guandao is built by taking the advantage of these forced procs and using a viral primer to amplify them.

since when you use a primer you can inflict different statuses in addition to viral, you can in fact have the full benefit of CO

... but in this scheme of things, weeping wounds does very little

so it's the opposite of what you say - CO is what you'd definitely want, and WW probably not

if not viewed this way, but through the lens of a standard hybrid light attack build, guandao is terrible weapon, but if viewed like i described it above it's actually an interesting weapon dealing potentially more upfront damage, but scaling worse

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Let's be clear for the benefit of any newer players reading this.

There is absolutely zero need to run condition overload on any build if you're doing normal star chart.   The damage you can inflict with virtually all melees using just ppp, 2 or 3 elemental mods, a bit of range and a bit of speed is already an order of magnitude more than you need to kill anything you'll face in a normal mission.   To be honest, you don't even need primed pressure point, normal pressure point will do.

For CO to be worth it, you have to at the very least be doing endless arbi's or steel path.   And even then, its not really needed.  Nice to have, yes, but not needed.

Also worth pointing out, CO procs dependant on status affects already present on the target.   So, if the target isn't affected by any statuses when you go to hit it, CO has zero affect.   It will then proc on the second hit, depending how many statuses you inflicted, which may only be 1 or 2.   Chances are, if you have ppp on instead, you'd have one shot the enemy, or possibly have needed a second hit.   Yes, some enemies are a bit tankier, nox, napalm, bombards etc, but the difference in ttk is really small until you get up to arbi/sortie levels.

Also, also.  People talk about running weeping wounds and blood rush.   These are both really great if you're building your combo counter.  If all you're doing is running through a mission though, chances are that you aren't building any more than 2-3 combo and it resets regularly along the way.   There is literally no point in running these mods in any mission where you aren't building a decent combo counter as you'd be better off just adding more flat damage.

Remember, if an enemy has say, 100k ehp, doing 1 mill damage is totally and utterly pointless.

[ReddyDisco]

20 hours ago, (PS4)AbyssWatcher0227 said:

So, i was wondering a lot of my friends talking about build with (po) and (co) and telling whats is the difference

So, are these 2 mods working well together? if not, what is the matter that make these 2 not workable together

they do work together, additive. Condition overload gives a lot more damage with a hybrid setup which is common nowadays. I've never seen a build that has both CO and PPP personally.

BR, CO, P Reach, P fever strike, Berserker, OS, Weeping, NW

sacrificing anything would be a waste

[KosmicKerman]

41 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

BR, CO, P Reach, P fever strike, Berserker, OS, Weeping, NW

Seems a little weird to be running two mods that want combo count and not also use a combo duration mod like drifting contact. I assume you are using something else to maintain combo.

[Proscriptor]

12 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Seems a little weird to be running two mods that want combo count and not also use a combo duration mod like drifting contact. I assume you are using something else to maintain combo.

Naramon is used to maintain combo, but also the Swift Momentum aura

drifting contact does not deserve a slot in the build because it doesn't directly increase dps

[KosmicKerman]

7 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

Naramon is used to maintain combo, but also the Swift Momentum aura

drifting contact does not deserve a slot in the build because it doesn't directly increase dps

Drifting contact increases dps by maintaining your combo count and providing a small status increase. I understand not using drifting contact if you have another way to maintain combo count but I find it peculiar to provide a build and that is dependent on an unmentioned mod or ability. If you aren't running Naramon or Swift Momentum then Weeping Wounds may not be the best choice for that slot since it will be difficult to maintain your combo count.

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-09-22 at 8:03 PM, KosmicKerman said:

Drifting contact increases dps by maintaining your combo count and providing a small status increase. ...

the status increase is irrelevant with weeping wounds

the way drifting contact increases dps through maintaining your combo is indirect

and i said that it doesn't directly increase dps

  

On 2020-09-22 at 8:03 PM, KosmicKerman said:

... I find it peculiar to provide a build and that is dependent on an unmentioned mod or ability. ...

this is indeed a little peculiar, but nowadays naramon is seen as part of the default melee setup. it's the standard school for melee. 

everything other than naramon is an exception

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

18 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

Naramon is used to maintain combo, but also the Swift Momentum aura

drifting contact does not deserve a slot in the build because it doesn't directly increase dps

I run drifting contact on loads of builds so I don't lose combo count, cos more damage ain't always needed.   Just adding more damage doesn't always make your build better.   If I'm just wanting to do a 20 min surv to open a few relics in pub, drifting contact is great cos then I don't need to run naramon and I know I'll be doing 10x the damage I actually need to kill the enemies anyway.

If I'm going to do a 2 hr arbi surv, yeah naramon it is and ill probably put on a primed smite mod instead.

There is no "right way" to mod, only the way that makes you happy with the results, and we got a sh!t ton of mods to play with.

[Proscriptor]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

... If I'm just wanting to do a 20 min surv to open a few relics in pub, drifting contact is great cos then I don't need to run naramon ...

what do you gain from not using naramon?

[(PSN)IIISuPeRy0III]

Not really, low status can be avoided with a gun, CO is better anyway, u can get 3 / 6 status easy with a status gun

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

41 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

what do you gain from not using naramon?

Well, I can run zenurik for example and give energy to both myself and my team.

Its called build diversity, different things for different situations.  I only need to kill an enemy once, not 10 times over so just constantly adding damage is often pointless.   I don't need a 12x combo multiplier for 90% of content.

[Proscriptor]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Well, I can run zenurik for example and give energy to both myself and my team.

Its called build diversity, different things for different situations.  I only need to kill an enemy once, not 10 times over so just constantly adding damage is often pointless.   I don't need a 12x combo multiplier for 90% of content.

i understand that, although in higher level play energizing dash doesn't play a bigger role as players are supposed to be sustainable on their own with arcane energize etc. 

however imagine doing a long high level mission and experiencing your combo counter reset back to 0 - would that be acceptable to you? 

[GPrime96]

3 hours ago, (NSW)IronElemental said:

OS?

NW?

Organ Shatter

North Wind

[Zeclem]

this thread seems to forget that to improve slash procs you need base damage or faction damage mods. nothing else improves their ticks.

if you are using a build that relies on such status effects, using both is a good option on a build. sure, you can also just switch ppp for a faction damage mod but i personally cant be bothered by having to switch configs each time i go to a mission. and most status based melee weaponry do use slash procs as a way to deal with armor.

sure, you can replace it with another status mod to improve condition overloads damage provided, but to make up for the lack of ppp on slash ticks, you'll need two extra status procs. another dual stat mod wont make status procs that much faster on a build that already has status, given the diminishing returns. you could make that difference by weeping wounds but to make use of that you'll either have to give up on actually good focus schools like zenurik or lose your preferred aura or need to remove one more mod to fit in body count/drifting contact. it can definitely be worth it, dont get me wrong. but these are still downsides that you might not wanna deal with, which i do not.

[(PSN)Glitschig]

With the new math of it, I generally don't use PP and CO in the same configuration.  Given other options to use the mod slot, I can always find something that works better than the pair. 

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

6 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

i understand that, although in higher level play energizing dash doesn't play a bigger role as players are supposed to be sustainable on their own with arcane energize etc. 

however imagine doing a long high level mission and experiencing your combo counter reset back to 0 - would that be acceptable to you? 

Like I said in a previous post that you quoted, if I'm going to do a long survival then yes, naramon it is.   But let's be honest, having the counter reset to zero and needing to build it again from zero is only a problem for a few seconds, once you're back up to 5/6, everything is dieing again anyway.

You just don't need to worry about your combo counter in 90% of play.   Therefore, you don't always have to run naramon, you can use other things.

[Proscriptor]

no it's a big problem when it resets. you wan't to keep the counter at 11x-12x, and you can't regain that in a few seconds in general

many players have experienced this, so naramon crystallized as the norm, especially since melee builds are "tight", and don't leave room for a mod that can be replaced with an external bonus /mechanic

[vegetosayajin]

If you are doing a combo build pp(or ppp) is useless in sense that it takes up a mod slot and co gives way way more damage on such builds.
If you are taking on a status immune target ppp is better.
In short it's not useless in terms of it doesn't do damage or it doesn't help, but it takes up a slot that you can use for something else that will help co do even more damage quickly(example - more range, more status, crit etc.) 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

The way I see it:

Primed Pressure Point for Heavy Attack builds.

Condition Overload for Combo builds.

[ReddyDisco]

17 hours ago, (NSW)IronElemental said:

just reading along on this thread, wanting to try your combo of mods, but failing to translate all your abbreviations :D

BR = Blood Rush, CO = Condition Overload, Primed Reach, Primed Fever Strike,

OS?

Weeping Wounds

NW?

 

If anyone could fill in the gaps, that would be greatly appreciated. I never really made anything the way it should, but im curious to see the difference.

Thanks in advance.

apologies, should have made it clearer.

OS: Organ Shatter

NW: North Wind

seems others have helped you with abbreviations.  this is pretty standard build for most stuff, when going down to deimos you build corrosive instead of viral as the enemies there are immune to viral status.

[EXC4L1BUR-PR1ME]

21 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

the status increase is irrelevant with weeping wounds

the way drifting contact increases dps through maintaining your combo is indirect

and i said that it doesn't directly increase dps

  

this is indeed a little peculiar, but nowadays naramon is seen as part of the default melee setup. it's the standard school for melee. 

everything other than naramon is an exception

I have wondered...Isn't Madurai a better choice for melee with the physical/elemental damage buffs @ 25%?  

[Galuf]

Very basically when observing a single hit there are 4 factors for your damage. In reality it is way more complex but the reasonning why they don't mix is there:

- base damage

- crit chance

- elemental damage

- crit damage (also works one Headshots)

All those stuffs multiply together to give your damage. Skipping optimisation courses(it is easy but it involves partials wich kind of look nerdy as f), you don't want to put too much in one of the parts. Obviously stats have different weighting but as you can make CO absolutely ridiculous in the base damage department easily, it absolutely removes any incentive to play PP on weapons that are good at it.