Tesla Bank Marked for Nerf?

[Traumtulpe]

The new Marked for Death with 154% ability strength:Tesla Bank with 40% ability strength:^{Speaks for itself, right?}

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Now outside of simulacrum

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

Cute.

 

 

Now do it on enemies that aren't made of tissue, like armoured enemies.

[GPrime96]

That’s embarrasing for Marked For Death

[Traumtulpe]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Now outside of simulacrum

Steel Path, MfD 154%:Same mission, Tesla Bank 40%:

18 minutes ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Now do it on enemies that aren't made of tissue, like armoured enemies.

Both are useless on armored enemies, since both are reduced by armor (with the exception of finishers).

There is nothing surprising going on, Tesla Bank is 100% HP as damage (possibly times 4 if you get all on one enemy), MfD is 75% with maximum strength.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

 

Both are useless on armored enemies, since both are reduced by armor (with the exception of finishers).

 

Why do you think Marked for Death was so OP that it needed a nerf in the first place? BECAUSE it spreads Finisher damage.

 

You literally glossed over the most important thing about Marked for Death dude.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Why do you think Marked for Death was so OP that it needed a nerf in the first place? BECAUSE it spreads Finisher damage.

So you haven't had the chance to use it. There was nothing OP about it. I use Larva instead of MfD on Nekros now. It's better.

[schilds]

While MfD spread true damage, it also used to spread overkill damage. That made it useable with heavy attacks or other high damage single attacks, not just finishers (and by useable I mean it could pop a group of armoured units).

The current MfD caps out at enemy health. To be effective, you *have* to use finishers to ignore armour and shields.

In any case, the point is that this comparison is rather silly, because it's showcasing a *suboptimal* use of the current MfD. As pointed out, on armoured enemies MfD can be made to work using a finisher, whereas there's no way to help Tesla Bank. It's a bit like taking Frost along to an exterminate instead of an excavation to "demonstrate" how terrible he is.

All this does is demonstrate that MfD is more niche, and the conditions for its use are more restricted, than it used to be.

[Monolake]

Screenshots are not useful without explanation.

Tesla bank is also effectively tied to mob's HP at the moment it latches - all the damage accumulated before enemy dies. BUT  - it's then not reduced to mere 75% cap - its full 100%. And it's all the damage you deal accumulated and discharged - not just 1 hit like Mark4nerf. And you have 4 Teslas, for cheap too. If 4 teslas attach to a target at 100% health - they all deal 100% of the target's health upon death.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Tesla_Bank

Both abilities are line-of-sight limited.

The downsides: Tesla Bank has lower range and it's subjected to stupid AI targeting so it wont always latch on the mob you want. Requires a slot for the augment. Only electric damage, while Mark is the same type of damage you dealt (ie can be finisher - ignores the armor of the secondary targets), Tesla Bank does pitiful damage vs armor.

 

 

[Traumtulpe]

For everyone thinking MfD is still good.

Why do this:If you can do this:

[schilds]

Nobody said it's "good", but the conditions under which it performs are narrower than they used to be, and you're demonstrating it under conditions where it will obviously underperform. 

You should only be considering it for frames with easy access to finishers. Nekros is no longer a frame to use it on, and a pistol is not a weapon you should be using it with.

[Duality52]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Why do you think Marked for Death was so OP that it needed a nerf in the first place?

Interesting how the same thing happened to Pax Seeker, yet the latter got the bug fix where the mods applied twice but didn't get overnerfed.

Marked For Death requires you to be methodical on targeting. Yet Saryn, Mesa, Khora (Accumulating Whipclaw), and potentially Maim Equinox don't require you to be methodical as they don't discriminate who's who. Majority of the playerbase will be able to acquire the aforementioned frames well before Marked For Death.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, schilds said:

Nobody said it's "good", but the conditions under which it performs are narrower than they used to be, and you're demonstrating it under conditions where it will obviously underperform. 

You should only be considering it for frames with easy access to finishers. Nekros is no longer a frame to use it on, and a pistol is not a weapon you should be using it with.

I have very bad news for you. I am using a finisher in the picture. The Bronco has a mod that enables finishers, which is why it shows as equipped.

[schilds]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

I have very bad news for you. I am using a finisher in the picture. The Bronco has a mod that enables finishers, which is why it shows as equipped.

Fair enough, I didn't look close enough :-P. But now that I have, I see +affinity numbers popping up in the Bronco picture which indicates you did in fact kill a group of enemies with it. The Larva picture just looks more impressive with all the red crits.

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, schilds said:

I see +affinity numbers popping up in the Bronco picture which indicates you did in fact kill a group of enemies with it.

Apart from the unit I targeted, 5 enemies died. After collecting them for a while with Zenurik, with my Sentinel shooting them. Those were probably butchers too.

[schilds]

8 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

Marked For Death requires you to be methodical on targeting. Yet Saryn, Mesa, Khora (Accumulating Whipclaw), and potentially Maim Equinox

The old MfD would pop a group of any type of enemy at pretty much any level. At high levels:

• Saryn's abilities serve as buffs/debuffs more than anything. 
• Mesa takes a fair while to chew through enemies.
• Maim takes a lot of buildup.

I'll give you Khora :-P.

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Apart from the unit I targeted, 5 enemies died. After collecting them for a while with Zenurik, with my Sentinel shooting them. Those were probably butchers too.

Actually scratch that. Gunblade frontal finishers have some AoE.

[schilds]

6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Apart from the unit I targeted, 5 enemies died. After collecting them for a while with Zenurik, with my Sentinel shooting them. Those were probably butchers too.

They're lancers, they're right there in the picture ... Unless *all* the lancers with the +affinity on them happen to also have a Butcher hiding behind them :-P.

And if we want to be strict and compare numbers, then the MfD screenshot is off in the corner in a cramped, less accessible spot (on an easily recognisable tile with jumping platforms) with no LoS to anything, while the Larva screenshot is in a fairly broad, open corridor.

 

In any case, I agree with you that you wouldn't use MfD on Nekros. It no longer performs well under conditions where it used to work.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, schilds said:

And if we want to be strict and compare numbers, then the MfD screenshot is in a cramped, less accessible spot (on an easily recognisable tile) with no LoS to anything, while the Larva screenshot is in a fairly broad, open corridor.

I don't know why you are still arguing, when you clearly haven't even used MfD. I have used it. I have access to alternatives. In this state, I will always pick the alternatives over it.

In the exterminate run I took pictures of above, I didn't even use MfD at all aside of picture opportunities. It literally didn't do anything. It might have killed one or two enemies somewhere, but generally speaking, everything I shoot dies. If I use MfD, I still have to shoot the damaged enemies afterwards.

[schilds]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

when you clearly haven't even used MfD

lol. I would ask if you've been stalking me_{(looks around nervously for hidden cameras)}, but if you really were you'd know that I've used it both before and after the nerf.

 

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

I have used it. I have access to alternatives. In this state, I will always pick the alternatives over it.

I wouldn't put it on most frames either, and the frames I would put it on I wouldn't use it in all scenarios. It's more niche than it used to be.

 

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I don't know why you are still arguing

Just to point out that these types of screenshot comparisons are nonsense. I'm not endorsing MfD :-P.

[Kaotyke]

Tesla Bank in the Simulacrum using Corpus and Electric procs...

12x Combo Strophia Heavy Attack...

You are trying really, hard here.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Tesla Bank in the Simulacrum using Corpus and Electric procs...

12x Combo Strophia Heavy Attack...

You are trying really, hard here.

I used it in a mission as well after the request. Same result.

That is how you use a gunblade.

No? The attacks damage is irrelevant, since enemies health is all that matters. There was nothing funky going on, no Viral procs, nothing. Just showcasing the abilities in equal situations.

[schilds]

On some further thought, MfD can't do more aoe damage than the target's *remaining health + shields*. The Bronco setup requires damaging the target before using MfD, so will end up with a lower damage explosion.

That *is* a serious weakness of the current MfD. You end up competing with other sources of damage. That's why you want as easy access to finishers as possible.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, schilds said:

On some further thought, MfD can't do more aoe damage than the *remaining health + shields*. The Bronco setup requires damaging the target before using MfD, so will end up with a lower damage explosion.

The Bronco deals pretty much exactly zero damage (mostly due to the mods I put on it). You really don't have to worry about it making a dent in Steel Path Grineer.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

whatever the point of htis topic was it got lost already.