Tesla Bank Marked for Nerf?

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

whatever the point of htis topic was it got lost already.

The point was that Tesla Bank is surprisingly good, dealing up to 400% of a targets health+shields in damage. I compared it to MfD's 75%. The point was also that Tesla Bank requires no ability strength whatsoever, while MfD requires 150%.

[schilds]

Tesla Bank has its own set of conditions for it to perform well, as such I think it's also pretty niche and won't see use on most builds :-P.

[Duality52]

33 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The point was that Tesla Bank is surprisingly good

Good yes ever since the Augment got reworked into its current form since last October, but it would be ridiculous to nerf it.

Similar to Mark For Death, it's methodical as it requires to selectively kill the target latched by a Nervo. Keep it as part of the variety of tools we have, not throw it out like Marked For Death.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

18 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

For everyone thinking MfD is still good.

Why do this:If you can do this:

That's splendid. Your demonstration of how overpowered melee have become sure demonstrates how powerful Tesla Bank is in the two screenshots you never even used Tesla Bank in.

 

In fact, take that exact scenario on the first screenshot and try using Tesla Bank there, let's see how well that turns out.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

That's splendid. Your demonstration of how overpowered melee have become sure demonstrates how powerful Tesla Bank is in the two screenshots you never even used Tesla Bank in.

I can do the same thing with a gun, I'll just have to wait a second for the Hunter Munitions proc to kill. I also already stated that Tesla Bank is useless against armor.

[Tesseract7777]

Tesla Bank looks kind of fun, haven't really delved into Vauban since I got back and saw his new changes... been meaning to try him again.

But outside of a situation where you can easily and reliably strip armor/shields first, why would you use it? Seems like the damage would fall off a lot the more armor they have, electricity is not exactly a great damage type in a lot of situations. So if you are subsuming it you need to be a frame that can strip armor already.;.. or why would you use it over other options? 

So if you admit armor needs to be gone for Tesla Bank to be truly effective are you agreeing the comparison is invalid? One doesn't use power strength, but it also cannot be made stronger with it. And it requires armor and shields to be gone to do significant damage. 

The other can be tossed on any frame that does finishers (especially Banshee, Ash, Excal who have augments that give them absurd multipliers) and spread finisher damaged to armored enemies, scaling like crazy with very little power strength investment. Sure, on a non finisher frame I agree it is a bit weak, but I think that's the biggest issue here. How do we solve balancing it so it isn't too strong when used with finishers, and too weak when not? 

[Traumtulpe]

11 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The other can be tossed on any frame that does finishers and spread finisher damaged to armored enemies, scaling like crazy with very little power strength investment. Sure, on a non finisher frame I agree it is a bit weak, but I think that's the biggest issue here. How do we solve balancing it so it isn't too strong when used with finishers, and too weak when not?

Unless you are using a finisher, MfD is just a lot worse than Tesla Bank. Against anything not armored (or if you can strip armor), MfD is always a lot worse than Tesla Bank.

If you use MfD with a finisher against armored enemies, you will still only kill a couple low tier units at best (with the exception of some bugs/oversights, that DE didn't think of when nerfing) unless the enemies are affected by a Viral proc.

Best case scenario using bugs/oversights/Viral, you use MfD, followed by a finisher, and everything in line of sight dies. That isn't even impressive. Khora's Strangledome has the same range, and anything inside instantly dies to Whipclaw - even if not in line of sight. And you get bonus loot. And CC.

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Unless you are using a finisher, MfD is just a lot worse than Tesla Bank. Against anything not armored (or if you can strip armor), MfD is always a lot worse than Tesla Bank.

If you use MfD with a finisher against armored enemies, you will still only kill a couple low tier units at best (with the exception of some bugs/oversights, that DE didn't think of when nerfing) unless the enemies are affected by a Viral proc.

Best case scenario using bugs/oversights/Viral, you use MfD, followed by a finisher, and everything in line of sight dies. That isn't even impressive. Khora's Strangledome has the same range, and anything inside instantly dies to Whipclaw - even if not in line of sight. And you get bonus loot. And CC.

I think the problem is, you have frames like Ash/Excalibur/Banshee who have ridiculous finisher multiplier augments. Don't get me wrong I expect the numbers on M4D to be tweaked upwards, I think they need to be. 

But when that happens, what does DE do with those frames? Disable the augments? Cap finisher damage? Because unless you do something about those augments, a "reasonable level of strength" for most frames, will be a ludicrous amount for those three. 

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Because unless you do something about those augments, a "reasonable level of strength" for most frames, will be a ludicrous amount for those three.

I am not sure Warframe has the kind of balance you are thinking of.

Even if MfD simply kills anything in line of sight, it only becomes the best option at very high levels. Levels in the thousands. And even then only on a favorable map. And even then, you get a lot of Nullifiers and Frost Eximus at those levels - both block MfD.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I can do the same thing with a gun, I'll just have to wait a second for the Hunter Munitions proc to kill. I also already stated that Tesla Bank is useless against armor.

You also said, in your very title itself.

 

Quote

Tesla Bank Marked for Nerf?

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

all I'm saying is this.

if Tesla bank were to get nerfed, Vauban mains and a certain trainman would go HAM against DE..

[schilds]

1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

if Tesla bank were to get nerfed, Vauban mains and a certain trainman would go HAM against DE..

Tesla Bank is wholly unnecessary for Vauban.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, schilds said:

Tesla Bank is wholly unnecessary for Vauban.

Most of his abilities besides Bastilletex are unnecessary. 

That doesn't mean we should delete the rest of his kit. It's an alternate playstyle/way of doing damage, and it's far from overpowered considering what it does to armored/shielded enemies. People would be angry because another fun way to play was taken away for literally no reason. 

[schilds]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Most of his abilities besides Bastilletex are unnecessary. 

^ I mean, I put TB on, and I use his 1 & 2 (and I replace his 3 :-P) but it just feels like I'm being busy for the sake of being busy. It's there so why not use it :-P. My build would probably be closer to optimal if I just built for 4.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Most of his abilities besides Bastilletex are unnecessary. 

That doesn't mean we should delete the rest of his kit. It's an alternate playstyle/way of doing damage, and it's far from overpowered considering what it does to armored/shielded enemies. People would be angry because another fun way to play was taken away for literally no reason. 

I certainly wouldn't mind a rework to make him a more deliberately slower and set-up focused frame rather than a supposed trap-frame whose traps all immediately goes off the moment they're deployed. Like, landmines that actually requires enemies to be in vicinity before going off.

 

 

 

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, schilds said:

^ I mean, I put TB on, and I use his 1 & 2 (and I replace his 3 :-P) but it just feels like I'm being busy for the sake of being busy. It's there so why not use it :-P. My build would probably be closer to optimal if I just built for 4.

This has always been me with Vauban. I often feel like I am just being busy and using his other abilities, especially his other cc, to justify their existence. TB and Photon Repeater builds at least have the potential to make you feel like you are adding something more to your playstyle besides just cc'ing the map with Bastille collapsed into Vortex with max range and calling it a day. 

1 minute ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

I certainly wouldn't mind a rework to make him a more deliberately slower and set-up focused frame rather than a supposed trap-frame whose traps all immediately goes off the moment they're deployed. Like, landmines that actually requires enemies to be in vicinity before going off.

 

 

 

I've always wished they could do something like this with Vauban. I still want him to be the king of CC, but he's a funny frame like that. I think the biggest problem with his kit is that they are so focused on him being the cc frame they both forgot two things: 

1) He was supposed to be a trapper, and his abilities don't exactly work like traps. 

2) As a cc frame, they seem to have this idea most of his powers, over the years, should be cc based. They have started to go in the right direction more recently IMO, with combining Bastille and Vortex, giving him a damage ability for three, making Tesla with the augment more about doing damage than a small amount of ineffectual cc. But I think his (2) makes him far too busy still and is kind of a mess. At least it isn't as bad as the early days, where it was just Tesla (ineffective damage so just poor cc), bounce, more cc, only had niche uses in interceptions. 3) Bastille cc of course. Vortex, MORE cc. Over the years redundancy has been Vauban's biggest design issue. 

Why use a bunch of other cc abilities when I can mod for one and lockdown the whole map with a couple button presses? 

[More-L]

Just wait until DE's actual balance team looks at M4D Is what I would say if DE themselves waited for their dedicated balance team to look at it before butchering the ability to near-complete uselessness, so yeah keep posting and acting rash just like DE. It is only fair.

M4D was justified in getting nerfed, the potential of it when it came to ~3000+ level enemies was a viable concern because that is what is important to DE as most players get to that point nearly every mission (even captures!) 

But capping damage to an enemies current health bar is the dumbest thing ever done to any ability, remember Oberon's 1 when they first reworked it to only deal current hp % damage? That is literally M4D at the moment, it just has some more AoE. DE should have just fixed the bugs with it and reduced the damage to 50% or lower, or made it deal a specific element instead of finisher damage.

Restricting our damage output while allowing us to reach that damage output in the first place is just bad design.

[Verixonsen]

Point is at the end of the day we have 1 less option to chose from in the helminth. So we all lose out...

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

3 hours ago, More-L said:

 before butchering the ability to near-complete uselessness

This is why it's hard to take most of this community seriously.

 

Like, the ability still decimates heavily armoured enemies even in Steel Path if you mark a beefy elite enemy and kill it with a finisher. That in itself makes it better than 90% of the nukes in the game, falling short of the obvious offenders who desperately need a nerf rather than be treated as baseline. But no, to this game's community...

 

 

"not overpowered af = near-compelte uselessness"

[vegetosayajin]

I fixed some things:
 

On 2020-09-22 at 2:41 AM, Traumtulpe said:

For everyone thinking MfD is still good.

Why do this:If you can do this:

much better

[ShortCat]

Tesla Bank is good since Vauban rework. Electricity damage is now allowed to hit Banshee's Sonar spots since status changes. So, if you struggle with armor, this comco might work (I am devouring Vauban atm, thus I cannot test it myself).

M4D was overnerfed, by excluding overkill damage. Nevertheless, there are still 2 scenarios where it can be used:

1. With Frames who increase finisher damage, like Banshee or Excal (I tested it on Banshee and was able to nuke like I did before).
2. With heavy melee attacks which cause a slash proc, since M4D will transfer inflicted slash proc to everyone. (No need for a finisher)

[GPrime96]

7 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

I fixed some things:
 

much better

Yeah that’s definitely a good fix you did there.

[BRZZAFK]

5小时前 , (PS4)GingyGreen 说:

That in itself makes it better than 90% of the nukes in the game 

You sure about that? I test this on defence or exterme and it's only a little better than just melee.And we are not suppose to use SP as argument since De said they will not balance around it.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

20 minutes ago, BRZZAFK said:

You sure about that? I test this on defence or exterme and it's only a little better than just melee.And we are not suppose to use SP as argument since De said they will not balance around it.

Melee isn't a nuke...

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

just some input on Vauban here people really underestimate his 2 ability or really anything that's not his 4 it's kind of unfortunate I think.

the flachettes have been amazing in just about any mission I decide to use them in especially when paired with bastille just taking off all armor enemies just die.

his tethers have been good cc they dont just tether an enemy they make them just ragdoll on the ground and not move and also pulls them in (good for the bounty on deimos where you need to pull enemies in and kill them as Vortex makes it too wonky and hasn't worked great for me)

 overdriver is just a boost on allies my only issue is it likes to jump to companions (and teslas sometimes) but it's just a cheap damage buff like a mini roar that you can give to yourself pretty easily

though I think vector pads are a little clunky though could maybe toss them down to surge enemies into your other mines or bastille

Tesla nervos without TB are still good for the record seeking out and adding a nice easy passive CC

Photon Strike in a big group is really good just taking out enemies as well but really shines with vortex obviously

 

just saying as I've been using Vauban for high level bounties in Deimos and for Iso vaults a lot and been about the best damage dealer as well as doing a lot of CC and also support with overdriver.