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Heart of Deimos: Hotfix 29.1.2 + Hotfix 29.1.2.1


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3 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Nothing wrong with bile, I'm not having a problem, though if players speed run through missions then I guess players would have problems with resources. 

Your in-game hours in your profile doesn't show 6000 hours it only shows me (2922 hours). Unless there is something that's not counted like multiple accounts or you restarted WF with a new name. I'm 15000 away from MR 30 with (6089 hours) all it shows is we have no life. HAHAHA

Ok, not necessarily the place, but I'll take a swing.

There is an issue with Bile.  There's no contesting this...because the math is simple.  Let's say you are actually using the Helminth system to iterate and try changing powers on a frame.  How many abilities using Bile could be applied?

 

Well, if you're subsuming it's between 47% and 80%.  Not ideal....but that's a one time cost, right?  Well...then you've got the costing for applying abilities.

The cost to apply an ability with Bile ranges from 10% to 77%.  Ouch.  This means only a couple of times a day...right?

 

Now we get to the costing schemes.  30% with a 24 hour wait...when subsume is a 23 hour wait.  That means no subsuming two Bile heavy frames in a day if you experimented the day before, and definitely not if you determined that you wanted to experiment.  Ouch.

 

But I'm wrong.  All resources function like Bile.  It's not an outlier.  Wrong.  The problem feeds back to what resources and quantities are required.  Thermia is a timed drop.  Copernics drop in such a way as to require 10+ runs to earn the required amount for a single usage.  Fresnels drop in single digit quantities, but require 1000 to get an infusion.  30 excavators need to be run for cryotic.  Somatic fibers drop one at a time rarely from enemies on a single mission node.  This means the options for resources to feed are poor, and the very structure of diminishing returns is a joke.  30%-15%-3%.  So you're telling me if I want any single resource to fill a phantom second resource I need to feed it 21 helpings?  That's more argon crystals than it took to build a railjack....and people lost their cool over that.  Don't worry though, you can also feed it 75 basic sentient cores, to reset it from 3% to 15%.  Are you kidding me? 

I'm happy that you aren't put out.  I'm not happy that you're selling this as fine.  I say this as a veteran, but because I hate the system.  It's a daily feed of 1 frame and the resources to replenish what was lost, and no usage.  It's just another instance of frame fighter.  Go out, scan items to unlock frames, and then forget the system exists once done.  Lord knows it's not giving us power.  It's not a reward for experienced players.  It's not a game changer, as all of the powers are being nerfed.  

 

So why then do I harp on Bile?  I want one promise delivered on.  I want to be able to experiment, and Bile is the main resource where we don't have options to get it in any real quantity.  If I got what I really wanted no ability would cost more than 20% of anything to apply.  That would spur iteration, but instead we have a resource sink that isn't fun.  Say what you will, but if the Helminth didn't exist we'd have lost very little.  If instead it was introduced today, with a real developed economy and test cluster vetting, it would be something I could care about.  Instead we got a rushed mess...and why even engage with something that looks to be about as well positioned as Lunaro?  Something that took priority over rolling out the rest of Railjack.  A system promised for two years before being dumped out.  Call it cynicism, but after getting shocked three times from grabbing the same metal pole you're proving your stupidity by reaching out for it again.  I'd like to think I'm not that stupid, and DE is just being DE.

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33 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Nothing wrong with bile, I'm not having a problem, though if players speed run through missions then I guess players would have problems with resources. 

Your in-game hours in your profile doesn't show 6000 hours it only shows me (2922 hours). Unless there is something that's not counted like multiple accounts or you restarted WF with a new name. I'm 15000 away from MR 30 with (6089 hours) all it shows is we have no life. HAHAHA

 

4 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Ok, not necessarily the place, but I'll take a swing.

There is an issue with Bile.  There's no contesting this...because the math is simple.  Let's say you are actually using the Helminth system to iterate and try changing powers on a frame.  How many abilities using Bile could be applied?

 

Well, if you're subsuming it's between 47% and 80%.  Not ideal....but that's a one time cost, right?  Well...then you've got the costing for applying abilities.

The cost to apply an ability with Bile ranges from 10% to 77%.  Ouch.  This means only a couple of times a day...right?

 

Now we get to the costing schemes.  30% with a 24 hour wait...when subsume is a 23 hour wait.  That means no subsuming two Bile heavy frames in a day if you experimented the day before, and definitely not if you determined that you wanted to experiment.  Ouch.

 

But I'm wrong.  All resources function like Bile.  It's not an outlier.  Wrong.  The problem feeds back to what resources and quantities are required.  Thermia is a timed drop.  Copernics drop in such a way as to require 10+ runs to earn the required amount for a single usage.  Fresnels drop in single digit quantities, but require 1000 to get an infusion.  30 excavators need to be run for cryotic.  Somatic fibers drop one at a time rarely from enemies on a single mission node.  This means the options for resources to feed are poor, and the very structure of diminishing returns is a joke.  30%-15%-3%.  So you're telling me if I want any single resource to fill a phantom second resource I need to feed it 21 helpings?  That's more argon crystals than it took to build a railjack....and people lost their cool over that.  Don't worry though, you can also feed it 75 basic sentient cores, to reset it from 3% to 15%.  Are you kidding me? 

I'm happy that you aren't put out.  I'm not happy that you're selling this as fine.  I say this as a veteran, but because I hate the system.  It's a daily feed of 1 frame and the resources to replenish what was lost, and no usage.  It's just another instance of frame fighter.  Go out, scan items to unlock frames, and then forget the system exists once done.  Lord knows it's not giving us power.  It's not a reward for experienced players.  It's not a game changer, as all of the powers are being nerfed.  

 

So why then do I harp on Bile?  I want one promise delivered on.  I want to be able to experiment, and Bile is the main resource where we don't have options to get it in any real quantity.  If I got what I really wanted no ability would cost more than 20% of anything to apply.  That would spur iteration, but instead we have a resource sink that isn't fun.  Say what you will, but if the Helminth didn't exist we'd have lost very little.  If instead it was introduced today, with a real developed economy and test cluster vetting, it would be something I could care about.  Instead we got a rushed mess...and why even engage with something that looks to be about as well positioned as Lunaro?  Something that took priority over rolling out the rest of Railjack.  A system promised for two years before being dumped out.  Call it cynicism, but after getting shocked three times from grabbing the same metal pole you're proving your stupidity by reaching out for it again.  I'd like to think I'm not that stupid, and DE is just being DE.

On another read I should have added 'Nothing wrong with bile, I'm not having a problem so far' your math looks good so I'll sit back and wait for DE to sort it out which they are looking into, damn your posts are long the few I've read of yours. :) 

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11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Disabled Ordis Transmissions while in the Helminth screen. Our trusty Cephalon must be shielded from this room.

He definitely must not be allowed to remind us that Helminth is a resource robber, who cannot be trusted, and that the abilities Helminth provides can be changed on a whim (from your nerfs). Yes, Ordis' meta dialogue protecting us from being scammed must be removed.

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So....it's definitely a release.

 

I've got issues with severe over exposure with the syndicate personnel.  The red veil representative might as well be the white phantom, given the colors.  Likewise on the every other person when entering the syndicate interface on the orbiter.  That's....special.

 

The unfinished list of abilities on the Helminth is nice...until you have to stop scrolling instead of just jumping to the bottom to get the "subsume this warframe."  Maybe give us the option to hide the incomplete abilities (if it already exists I'd appreciate it being pointed out, because I couldn't see it).

 

The ayatans/syndicate medallions are still spawning in unreachable areas on the corpus ship tileset introduced in June.  Maybe get on that instead of releasing another resource sink that is stretched to the breaking point.  If you'd like I can provide plenty of pictures, though I'm definitely not the only person who already has.

 

Eidolon fights...yeah.  Today I got the pleasure of being locked out of using anything (guns, melee, etc...).  The fix is generally to hop onto a k-drive or an archwing, then back.  I used the k-drive, and fell through the world.  Fine, "/unstuck" should work.  Nope.  It says that I've been unstuck, but I keep falling to about 5000 meters.  I'm able to see the markers for enemies, but after a brutal 35 minute fight I'm just out of the fight.  People will say that this is insane, a 30 minute fight is a joke.  Then they have to consider that running with a group that just barely has mote amps is....interesting.  90% of the damage happened between two of us, and the people deciding to hold a lure waited outside of the radius that captured the Eidolon to prevent damage...yeah, 30+ minutes was spent because trying to do this with two support frames was not fun.

Pardon the diversion.  My point is that this is Eidolon fights 3+ years after their introduction.  You can literally fall through levels, have no command to kill yourself, and the not listed in-game "/unstuck" feature is incapable of understanding that being 5000 meters below any viable surface requires a respawn elsewhere.

 

 

Swing and a miss.  These minor fixes are appreciated.....but I want my 20k+ syndicate standing back more than I want to have the k-drive skins listed correctly.  

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...and reversion to 'Marked for Nerf' -ahem- I mean Marked for Death to its original un-nerfed (but minus mod-doubling bug)  WHEN?
This is not a laughing matter [DE]; considering it is a mediocre (at best) ability without some heavy meta... now it is damage capped, reduced in effectivnes and still an energy hog and mother-wonking SCHLOG of grind and resources to unlock AND instil.

 

As stated in an earlier post; no need to "review".
Reverse the nerf. 
Remove the bug.
OR
Refund all materials cost for those who unlocked it only to have it blasted out from under them by the nerf-cannon.

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47 minutes ago, Shemarria said:

...and reversion to 'Marked for Nerf' -ahem- I mean Marked for Death to its original un-nerfed (but minus mod-doubling bug)  WHEN?
This is not a laughing matter [DE]; considering it is a mediocre (at best) ability without some heavy meta... now it is damage capped, reduced in effectivnes and still an energy hog and mother-wonking SCHLOG of grind and resources to unlock AND instil.

 

As stated in an earlier post; no need to "review".
Reverse the nerf. 
Remove the bug.
OR
Refund all materials cost for those who unlocked it only to have it blasted out from under them by the nerf-cannon.

If I got a penny for every one of my nerfed setups I'd have enough to make another one that will yield another penny

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Currently, killing ennemies with your archgun while using a nechramech cannot count for the "Kill 150 Enemies with ... Damage", whereas using this archgun with your warframe works.

 

There are also bugs with the "monster door" not opening in isolation vaults bounties when you throw the bait at it (apparently, it works fine if the host throws the bait)

Edited by ClarkX
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1 hour ago, Shemarria said:

...and reversion to 'Marked for Nerf' -ahem- I mean Marked for Death to its original un-nerfed (but minus mod-doubling bug)  WHEN?
This is not a laughing matter [DE]; considering it is a mediocre (at best) ability without some heavy meta... now it is damage capped, reduced in effectivnes and still an energy hog and mother-wonking SCHLOG of grind and resources to unlock AND instil.

 

As stated in an earlier post; no need to "review".
Reverse the nerf. 
Remove the bug.
OR
Refund all materials cost for those who unlocked it only to have it blasted out from under them by the nerf-cannon.

I wonder if they are just trying to wait out the clock and hope the players forget about the nerf / accept it.

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13 hours ago, -IE-DragonZero- said:

Many thanks for the hotfix.

A strange happened with my profile, 4 of my primary kitgun got unranked, I am pretty sure I have gilded and rank up them for mastery, hope this new hotfix fix this issue

Equip one of the guns, jump into PoE/OV/CD, shoot a critter, jump out. This will update the profile rankings (for that gun). Old trick, but it still works.

Edited by Graavarg
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Thanks for your continued efforts to make Warframe a better game.

I've discovered some strange bugs relating archguns.

Yesterday I was running the last sortie mission on uranus sealab tileset. My squad and I started underwater and as soon as we set foot on land, my whole squad was wearing their archguns. I suppose this is a visual bug, since we were holding our primary weapons too.

An hour later one of my clanmembers and I were running some railjack missions for nightwave. After I exited the railjack to blow up some crewships I entered the railjack with my archgun equipped the similar way as mentioned above. But my prisma veritux was there too. Looked like it was impaling me from the back. Don't get me wrong: Wearing all weapons at the same time makes one feel super badass but I don't think this is intended.

As always, thanks for your efforts, stay safe and drink enough.

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