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Suggestion how to soften up the Nerf news


Lord_Qrainex

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My idea is pretty simple, taking a note from balancing PvP games, League of Legends as an example, they nerf Champions, but they also buff other Champions in the same patch, one of the devs(i believe it was steve) once said that you like to take ideas from other games and apply them to Warframe, if you gonna nerf something that the community enjoys, give them something in return, those huge nerfs often come with no "compensation" so to speak. you basically take away our toy and give us nothing in return, it became so bad it's a meme at this point, "Fun detected nerf hammer inbound" and such, you need to soften up that blow by giving something in return, especially in a system that requires alot of resources to sink in.

TLDR give significant enough buffs to offset the gigantic nerf hammer.

Flat out nerfs only anger players, because why wouldn't it, there is nothing for the player to be happy about in a PvE game, in a PvP game nerfs are sometimes welcome, because people don't only use the nerfed things, they fight against them as well, who benefits from nerfs in a PvE game? the A.I? If it is for build diversity than the Mark for Death nerf doesn't make sense, because it finally added a viable "top tier" build to rival Khora, but whatever i won't beat that dead horse any longer, that's not the point of the topic.

If you're gonna nerf things buff others things an equal amount, it will go smother with the community and maybe make some new builds pop up.

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Nobody cares what gets buffed, they only care that something gets nerfed because they were using it.

Almost every melee weapon got their stats buffed to a semi-usable state back with 3.0, what was everyone talking about after 3.0 dropped? The Condition Overload nerf and how they couldn't deal billions of damage in one hit anymore.

The certain subsection of the playerbase has gotten complacent with their power creep and any attempt to curb it is seen as a personal attack to be responded to with hysteria and outrage. That's why you always see the hollow "why can't you just buff everything else" statements with no actual idea or suggestion how to buff things to the level of what was nerfed, not because anyone cares about having more options, just that the option that takes the least work has been changed in some way.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Nobody cares what gets buffed, they only care that something gets nerfed because they were using it.

That is so not true. There are many things that players have repeatedly asked be buffed - useless abilities are a prominent example. But they just never do it. We have dead abilities, that have been dead for years, and every month there is a new thread by a naive player about it. Nothing is ever done about those.

Then some dude makes a video called "Warframe Insane Redcrit Millions are Dead!" and the next day we have nerfs. And often these nerfs totally kill another ability / item, adding to the pile of decomposing corpses, they just pretend don't exist.

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There's no softening up. Tenno have received so many buffs over the past year, but you still hear players insisting that all DE do is nerf. There is, however, proactive expectations management and building a player culture that asks "how can I make this work" rather than "does this work for me". The first question is much healthier. If every player is asking the second one then (given different players enjoy different things) the devs are completely trapped in what they can do.

Buffs should just be part of their balancing, but they don't really soften the impact of nerfs. For one, the devs can't really control whether the nerfs and buffs affect the same players. That said, there are some obvious instances when they're quick with the nerfs and slow with the buffs. For example, with Helminth they talked about buffing lesser used abilities, and what happened instead was they buffed two and nerfed 6.

There was a lot of talk among players about what buffs weaker abilities might get, and then it turned out the couple of examples that DE released early comprised the totality of buffed abilities. Later, even with stats on hand indicating which abilities are weak and unused, there was a reluctance to even discuss buffing them.

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7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

The vocal community will always find the statement they find “bad or triggering” and shout it out at everyone. No matter how much counter buff DE has done. Melee 3.0 mod rebalance is a good example of this.

 

How is melee a good example, it's by far the strongest option, you take the worst example of unreasonable people and run with it, there's planty proper constructive critisizem, with examples of how to change/treat those things.

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6 hours ago, schilds said:

There's no softening up. Tenno have received so many buffs over the past year, but you still hear players insisting that all DE do is nerf. There is, however, proactive expectations management and building a player culture that asks "how can I make this work" rather than "does this work for me". The first question is much healthier. If every player is asking the second one then (given different players enjoy different things) the devs are completely trapped in what they can do.

Buffs should just be part of their balancing, but they don't really soften the impact of nerfs. For one, the devs can't really control whether the nerfs and buffs affect the same players. That said, there are some obvious instances when they're quick with the nerfs and slow with the buffs. For example, with Helminth they talked about buffing lesser used abilities, and what happened instead was they buffed two and nerfed 6.

There was a lot of talk among players about what buffs weaker abilities might get, and then it turned out the couple of examples that DE released early comprised the totality of buffed abilities. Later, even with stats on hand indicating which abilities are weak and unused, there was a reluctance to even discuss buffing them.

Wasn't the "how can I make this work" exactly what people did with Marked for Death? Than because people found a way to make it work the destroyed it, yes you can still use it with slash procs, but that's not much of a use since you can simply apply those yourself, wouldn't take any longer than using the Ability combination, people were trying to be creative, making a whole load out to make those broken combos work, using Ash with fatal teleport, Skiajati and Arcane Trickery,  all of that requires a large amount of investment if you don't already have all the pieces, than you need to put the together, and still you need to run around and actually engage with enemies, it wasn't as simple as press 4 to win, meanwhile there's Khora standing in one spot spaming Whipclaw, the reason why it got nerfed was because people covered the combo and made it easy to just copy paste, it wouldn't get nerfed if it wasn't so easy to copy it, if people actually needed to come up with it on their own, but that just discourages people from sharing ideas and builds.

It probably would've still got nerfed, because it had double mods appliance and triggered Arcane Trickery too often, but those would be fair changes, because well it's a bug.

Point is that you are discouraged from actually coming up with creative builds and sharing them.

Also not the point of the post, the point was that if you just nerf something there's no benefit, if you also buff things it can open up new build possibilities and at least give people something to try and bring the news from nothing positive and beneficial to at least tolerable, and maybe even positive for some people that finally get a buff they were asking for.

Also being "forced" to buff things if they want to nerf something(if they stick with the idea) will encourage them to actually look at the things they were neglecting to buff/change.

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