Since Mag got her Protective Magnetize, why is Nyx Absorb still crap? [Nyx Rework Attempt]

[Naneel]

As the title says. With Mag getting her protective version of Magnetize (the little sister of Assimilate) it should be time to bring Absorb up to date and also tweak her other Abilities to be a bit more fun and useful.

For comparison Mags protective Magnetize :

Spoiler

Strength:50 / 150 / 200 / 300 ( Blast base damage) 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 ( Blast damage increase per second) 1.25x / 1.5x / 1.75x / 2x (absorption multiplier)

Duration:10 / 12 / 13 /15 s

Range:5 / 10 / 12 / 15 m (blast range)

Misc80° (blast angle)

and Nyx Absorb :

Spoiler

Strength:160 / 170 / 180 / 200 (passive damage gain) 800 / 900 / 1000 / 1500 (minimum damage) 0.03% (taken damage converted)

Duration:8 s

Range:5 / 7 / 8 / 10 m

Mag has a higher base Damge (300 vs. 0), better Damage Absorb (2x vs. 0,1x), better Range (15m vs. 10m) and is still able to move. But she gets lower passive Damage/sec (25 vs. 200), worse Misc (80° vs. 360°) and is still vulnerable to Status and Melee.

So as a treatment for Absorb I would like to see the same (or better) damage Absorb and Range as Mag. Passive and Base Damage can stay, as they aren't the main point in dealing damage. Get rid of the Energy/Damage Absorb (Mag doesn't have this one either). On top of it, it would be nice if Nyx could also move/hovering forward (like Mag). And as I am not sure what Damage Absorb now exactly deals (Wiki says all absorbed), maybe let it deal Void damage instead, so it would be equal on all factions.

As for her weapon damage buff, I don't think it fits her theme and the Ability.

Chaos is fine.

Psychic Bolts are good, but I would like to see an extended function :  Holding the Ability key will produce more shards (for an additional cost). Number of Shards should probably depend on Ability duration (as Novas Nullstar) or while Holding you create a Shard for every enemy in Range (cost : 5 energy per Enemy, like Embers Meteor) or just pack it in the base Ability. This Ability could also use a better Augment as I don't see why I would ever take this over Chaos.

Mind Control needs defenitely a better AI to work properly, but could also use some other changes :

• Buffing the damge via shooting : neither does it fit Nyx theme nor does it make much sense, and you have better things to do then shooting the target which dies 30sec later anyway. It should get a damage modifier based on Nyx Ability Strength 
• MC should not depend on Duration, either make it a channeled Ability or until the Target dies (remove immunity)
• could also use a better Augment, either better bonus (500% will still only tickle higher level enemies) or a buffing effect

 

The Passive sounds good on paper, but I am not sure if this really has any noticable effect on  the enemies...

[Huskaraen]

I dont know the typo in the title is intentional or not, but

[Naneel]

Was just a typo, thanks.

 

[(PSN)thegarada]

While Nyx absorb and mind control need rework, the mag absorb is garbage. It has no use and does no damage (it does damage but it is extremely week). Also, it is not a full protection. Some AOEs can go through. At least with augment Nyx can attack while invulnerable. However, Mag bubble is an extremely good skill.

[DrivaMain]

You forgot the thing that made those 2 absorb type abilities irrelevant. Meet.. Wukong’s DEFY.

	ENERGY 50 KEY 3	Defy Wukong and his twin become invulnerable and defy enemies to attack. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious strike of Wukong's staff. Bonus Armor is then granted relative to the damage captured.	Strength:4 / 5 / 6 / 7.5 x (damage multiplier) 0.8 / 1 / 1.2 / 1.5 x (armor multiplier)
			Duration:2 s (invulnerability duration) 15 / 18 / 20 / 25 s (armor duration)
			Range:7 / 8 / 10 / 12 m (staff swing radius)
			Misc:-50 % (move speed penalty) 100 % (status cleanse on spin) 50 AP (min. armor bonus) 1,500 AP (armor bonus cap)

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

Because we need a crap ability to replace with a helminth ability 😂

You really do have a point though, even if just because absorb is supposed to be her ultimate ability.
Otherwise absorb blocks all damage and status effects and increases her threat level, whilst mag's magnetize does not block AOE or melee, and apparently still allows status procs from projectiles to get through

[Naneel]

Haven't played Wukong since his last rework, so I missed this completly. And yeah it is sad that the Mother of all Absorbs has the worst of all ...

[Naneel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb DeckChairVonBananaCamel:

Because we need a crap ability to replace with a helminth ability 😂

But we also have Mind Control ^^

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

25 minutes ago, Naneel said:

But we also have Mind Control ^^

*strokes chin* true, true

[Xepthrichros]

I've posted suggestions for Nyx before, so here I go again.

Passive: Mind Meld. Grants Nyx advance knowledge of incoming attacks, thus she gets some evasion. Also grants her knowledge of what enemies know about their colleagues and where they keep their loot. I.e. Free Enemy Radar and Loot Detector that increases in proportion to number of enemies affected by Nyx's abilities. 

Mind Control.

- Remove duration. Wukong's clone and Khora's Venari exist. And the current state of Mind Controlled target AI is so bad that often it is inferior to those other 2 things, slapping on duration limit just makes it worse. 

- Add some basic command functionality, such as "X" to follow, and "X" to guard, like Specters. 

- Make old augment (+500% Damage) part of the base ability

- Add option to boost damage further by expending more energy. Can also heal an injured mind control minion by spending energy. 

- New augment: Possession. Nyx fades into psychic energy, and enters the target, taking full command of the mind-controlled minion, i.e. you play as the mind-controlled unit. Special mechanics - if you possess a target while enemies in general are in a non-alerted state, you will remain undetected as the minion. Allowing you to walk around the area as one of them, and they will not suspect you until you attack them or attempt to hack some important consoles (such as spy vaults) while view of enemies.

Psychic Bolts

- Let the number of Bolts scale with either Strength, Duration or Range. Any of these is fine. Better than the current state of scaling with nothing. Xaku has AOE armor strip now (also, their only worthwhile ability), Nyx should not be left behind completely.

- Should deactivate enemy auras, and prevent enemies from activating their abilities. 

- Against infested, the aura / ability deactivation will help. Alternately, it can make the infested melee attacks do less damage. The current effect of reduced speed is kinda, unnoticeable, to be frank

Chaos

- More or less fine. But It'd be nice if it synergies with 2, where chaos-ed enemies are GUARANTEED to prioritize targets hit by Psychic Bolts

Absorb

- Make the augment become the base skill.  Now it works like this: Tap 4 to enter Assimilate slow-walk mode, absorbing incoming damage. But buff movement speed a bit so it becomes comparable to Ivara's Prowl mode, as current Assimilate is also a tad too slow for the present state of bullet-jump-everywhere game.  Press and hold 4 to enter full Absorb mode, where Nyx enter the immobile meditation pose, but in so doing amplifies the damage she's absorbed and improves the radius of explosion

- Improve range of explosion in general, regardless of Assimilate-and-explode, or Absorb-boosted-and-explode.

- New augment: Improve movement in Assimilate further, but at the cost of less damage converted.

- If you have trouble visualizing what this change does, imagine Garuda's 1, on tapping, you get that shield that blocks and absorbs damage, on hold, you channel energy to boost damage to the gory projectile of death before throwing it out for a decent explosion. Imagine that process, but with Nyx's Assimilate and Absorb animation instead.

 

[Aldain]

Because Nyx is one of a handful Warframes that people viciously defend as being "the best" despite their abilities not doing nearly enough to make them anything other than a weapons platform.

There's also Loki, who has 2 abilities that functionally are stuck in the original open beta and a passive that is so niche that is physically hurts.

[Naneel]

Okay, since Defy is an even better Absorb I will adjust Numbers once more :

• Damage reflected should gain a 10x modifier, we have 2x on Mag (2nd Ability) and 7,5x on Wukong (3rd Ability), so for a 4th Ability 10x should be fine (should be effected by Ability Strength as the others are)
• 15m Range (Mag has 15m and Wukong has 12m, so something along those should be okay)
• since Mag and Wukong can move, it would be fair if Nyx could also (at the same slow pace) or get a really good compensation for staying
• no additional cost for Absorbed damage
• damage dealt should be good on all factions, maybe Void would be good

 

Am 24.9.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Xepthrichros:

Passive: Mind Meld. Grants Nyx advance knowledge of incoming attacks, thus she gets some evasion. Also grants her knowledge of what enemies know about their colleagues and where they keep their loot. I.e. Free Enemy Radar and Loot Detector that increases in proportion to number of enemies affected by Nyx's abilities. 

I really like this idea.

Am 24.9.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Xepthrichros:

Mind Control.

- Remove duration. Wukong's clone and Khora's Venari exist. And the current state of Mind Controlled target AI is so bad that often it is inferior to those other 2 things, slapping on duration limit just makes it worse. 

- Add some basic command functionality, such as "X" to follow, and "X" to guard, like Specters. 

- Make old augment (+500% Damage) part of the base ability

- Add option to boost damage further by expending more energy. Can also heal an injured mind control minion by spending energy. 

- New augment: Possession. Nyx fades into psychic energy, and enters the target, taking full command of the mind-controlled minion, i.e. you play as the mind-controlled unit. Special mechanics - if you possess a target while enemies in general are in a non-alerted state, you will remain undetected as the minion. Allowing you to walk around the area as one of them, and they will not suspect you until you attack them or attempt to hack some important consoles (such as spy vaults) while view of enemies.

Really like your tweaks except the Augment, this just don't sound fun to me.

Am 24.9.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Xepthrichros:

Psychic Bolts

- Let the number of Bolts scale with either Strength, Duration or Range. Any of these is fine. Better than the current state of scaling with nothing. Xaku has AOE armor strip now (also, their only worthwhile ability), Nyx should not be left behind completely.

- Should deactivate enemy auras, and prevent enemies from activating their abilities. 

- Against infested, the aura / ability deactivation will help. Alternately, it can make the infested melee attacks do less damage. The current effect of reduced speed is kinda, unnoticeable, to be frank

More Bolts is alwasy good. Disableing Auras should already be implemented if I remember right.  Slow needs to be higher and should also effect attack speed. Maybe alter the function, so all enemies without armor/shield are slowed, not only infested.

Am 24.9.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Xepthrichros:

Chaos

- More or less fine. But It'd be nice if it synergies with 2, where chaos-ed enemies are GUARANTEED to prioritize targets hit by Psychic Bolts

Would be nice. And as another synergy idea : MC should priorititze Bolted enemies.

Am 24.9.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Xepthrichros:

Absorb

- Make the augment become the base skill.  Now it works like this: Tap 4 to enter Assimilate slow-walk mode, absorbing incoming damage. But buff movement speed a bit so it becomes comparable to Ivara's Prowl mode, as current Assimilate is also a tad too slow for the present state of bullet-jump-everywhere game.  Press and hold 4 to enter full Absorb mode, where Nyx enter the immobile meditation pose, but in so doing amplifies the damage she's absorbed and improves the radius of explosion

- Improve range of explosion in general, regardless of Assimilate-and-explode, or Absorb-boosted-and-explode.

- New augment: Improve movement in Assimilate further, but at the cost of less damage converted.

- If you have trouble visualizing what this change does, imagine Garuda's 1, on tapping, you get that shield that blocks and absorbs damage, on hold, you channel energy to boost damage to the gory projectile of death before throwing it out for a decent explosion. Imagine that process, but with Nyx's Assimilate and Absorb animation instead.

This could also work, but I think she shouldn't be able to use her weapons while in Absorb, Casting skills would be fine.