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Helminth: Railjack Resources + Bile Changes.


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Also... is it really needed to be done together with a hotfix to uncap present nightwave rank? Players have been helplessly wasting standings by unknowingly doing everyday stuffs that are required in some nightwave tasks. 

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1 hour ago, ---RNGesus--- said:

There should be refunds for early adopters. Not player's fault that you didn't think this through. 

Yep, but this is how updates usually go. Unfinished stuff is adopted early by the dedicated players, and then it's easy street later for everyone else. If you want the best experience, you need to resist playing anything at launch for a month atleast. I agree with you though; this is basic stuff. It's not complicated to have seen that Necramech mod drops are too low, Son Tokens are too expensive, or Railjack resources were an outlier in Helminth fusing.

Maybe next week you will see all the Grandmother items reduced in cost even though some of us already spent hundreds of Grandmother Tokens on Glyphs and Captura Scenes.

Edited by Voltage
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8 minutes ago, Shylo50 said:

Why keep Creds if you didn't spend them during the proper nightwave? Why keep anything that's functionally useless at all, really?
it's a case of "existing in my inventory doing absolutely nothing" versus "a few credits are a few credits."
Honestly it's more or less my thoughts on every resource that we have ludicrous amounts of and barely use for anything.

I feel your pain. They didn't tease the Heart of Deimos Helminth thing until the last minute, and I was back at the game grinding hard. I didn't even need space, I was just deleting vanilla's out of habit once I got their primes and I had a lot of catching up to do. Sold vanilla Inaros, and Atlas And I had half farmed Gauss, given up and bought him, and then sold the parts I had got because I thought they were literally useless to me. 

Then less than a week later Helminth system announced feels bad man. I just gotta live with it I guess haha. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

-snip-

I'm not sure this is what he/she meant.

The overall resources for bile needs to be reduced heavily, including the following:

  • Infusing Powers (Due to play-testing powers, it gets more costly, each time we infuse a power, there is no reliable or safe way to test infused powers)
  • Subsuming (Needs tuning down, not everyone can keep up with the cost)
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43 minutes ago, (XB1)Greenguy5000 said:

Nav coords still drop they just arent used in anything other than alad v keys

Oh thank you! I didn't realize it. That's very good news to me then. I'll edit my post

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Great news all around! We'll see how the Railjack resource "refunding" goes, but I hope it compensates a couple feeds on most of those resources (with a few exceptions).

Still a bit bummed about this taking this long to do, and the fact that, at least last time I checked, there's still no information in the in game tips/tooltips about Helminth apetite resetting over time. This is very important info, and it's equally important to NOT rely on the Forums, on Twitter or Reddit or YouTube*streamers for people to learn about this. This kind of info belongs in game.

Thanks for your time, and thanks for handling this community team 🙂

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Antiserum Fragment x 900
Javlok Capacitor x 7
Nav Coordinates x 50

lol thank but why are all the resources from Bile such a grind?

Wasn't the system setup for players who have too much resources from just playing the game and having no where to use the resources? Not go farm specific resources from areas where most people dont play? Wouldn't it make more sense for specific islands resources in game to be less cost for "just testing" Helminth abilities? I mean testing a new car on a lot cost me no money until I want to take it home with me.

Or was this the intention behind the Helminth? Make players play nodes that are no longer played? If so, it would be nice to see this stated somewhere so we know why we farming on these islands in game.

Since you guys love to look at number and statistics, how is it that veteran players are even capable of running out of resources? To me that sounds like a broken system.

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9 минут назад, kwlingo сказал:

Not go farm specific resources from areas where most people dont play?

you don't need people to farm rj resources you know? it is the most trivial content in the game

Edited by Merrcenary
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2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

But the thing is you have to understand the intent. 

This is for advanced players, they only changed it because there are some truly advanced players among the MR8's. 

The MR is an imperfect system for progression and that's why we are having this conversation, but there really is a HUGE gulf between the MR8-10 players who have been playing for years and have all the maxed primed mods and forma'd gear (just not as much variety as some) and a brand new MR8-10 who has more recently joined the game. 

One has all their stuff that they do have maxed and has a suite of end game mods and probably arcanes too. They have a huge resource bank especially because they didn't even build that much to try. 

A brand new MR8 honestly shouldn't even be trying to do the Helminth system yet. They really don't have the resources for it at all and won't for a long time. At best they will be able to do a little, little bit over time, but it will greatly slow down their other progression as well. 

But the thing is that a new MR8 player is gonna hear about this system and start investing into it as soon as they get it. And yes MR is a flawed system, and MR8 is really easy to get to. When I talk about this system to friends I often compare it to the rising tide quest, which is easy to unlock and (at the beginning) was a massive resource sink for new players. I should know, since I was one of those new players at the time. This system, like you said, is designed for end game players. So in this context, we need to make the cost to use the system fit its requirement. What I think you fail to understand with my argument is that I'm not arguing for the MR requirement to be raised AND the resource cost to be lowered. It should be one or the other. If you wanna disagree fine by me, I won't waste my breath trying to change your mind. Just try to understand what I'm saying. The system should fit its requirement. Having a low MR requirement to use it should mean it is easy to invest into it. Having a higher MR requirement should mean having to invest more resources into it. It should be one or the other. If they raise the MR requirement to fit the resource cost, you bet I'll shut up about this. And if they stick to the current requierment of MR8 then the cost to invest should match that. 

 

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21 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

lol thank but why are all the resources from Bile such a grind?

Wasn't the system setup for players who have too much resources from just p

23 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

lol thank but why are all the resources from Bile such a grind?

Wasn't the system setup for players who have too much resources from just playing the game and having no where to use the resources? Not go farm specific resources from areas where most people dont play? Wouldn't it make more sense for specific islands resources in game to be less cost for "just testing" Helminth abilities? I mean testing a new car on a lot cost me no money until I want to take it home with me.

Or was this the intention behind the Helminth? Make players play nodes that are no longer played? If so, it would be nice to see this stated somewhere so we know why we farming on these islands in game.

Since you guys love to look at number and statistics, how is it that veteran players are even capable of running out of resources? To me that sounds like a broken system.

laying the game and having no where to use the resources? Not go farm specific resources from areas where most people dont play? Wouldn't it make more sense for specific islands resources in game to be less cost for "just testing" Helminth abilities? I mean testing a new car on a lot cost me no money until I want to take it home with me.

Or was this the intention behind the Helminth? Make players play nodes that are no longer played? If so, it would be nice to see this stated somewhere so we know why we farming on these islands in game.

Since you guys love to look at number and statistics, how is it that veteran players are even capable of running out of resources? To me that sounds like a broken system.

This is another point I wanted to bring up, even though it's barely related to my argument. Its extremely taxing to experiment with the system as of right now. I honestly can't say more, cause this guy said it all. 

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10 minutes ago, Captain_Rocket505 said:

But the thing is that a new MR8 player is gonna hear about this system and start investing into it as soon as they get it. And yes MR is a flawed system, and MR8 is really easy to get to. When I talk about this system to friends I often compare it to the rising tide quest, which is easy to unlock and (at the beginning) was a massive resource sink for new players. I should know, since I was one of those new players at the time. This system, like you said, is designed for end game players. So in this context, we need to make the cost to use the system fit its requirement. What I think you fail to understand with my argument is that I'm not arguing for the MR requirement to be raised AND the resource cost to be lowered. It should be one or the other. If you wanna disagree fine by me, I won't waste my breath trying to change your mind. Just try to understand what I'm saying. The system should fit its requirement. Having a low MR requirement to use it should mean it is easy to invest into it. Having a higher MR requirement should mean having to invest more resources into it. It should be one or the other. If they raise the MR requirement to fit the resource cost, you bet I'll shut up about this. And if they stick to the current requierment of MR8 then the cost to invest should match that. 

 

I understand what you are saying. 

Personally, while it's probably too late now, I think they shouldn't have lowered it quite as low as they did. Maybe MR15 was high, but it should have been at least MR12 imo. 

DE has put themselves into another impossible position, so I can see both sides including your argument, even if I lean slightly to the other side than you on it. It's a messy situation because it was supposed to be advanced, but now they still want it to be advanced, but it's accessible to MR8's... 

I think stuff like this exposes the problems with the MR system in general. It's a great system for monetization in a F2P game, not so great a system for tracking player strength (which is really about how maxed your mods and arcanes are and how much forma you have in your gear). This also means it's really hard to come up with a system to track actual player strength. I'm not sure there is any real, realistic solution for tracking player strength without a great deal of restructuring. 

I understand you just want consistency and I get where you are coming from, but I'm just not sure there is any good answer now that they caved and lowered the requirements. Now if they lower the costs too much, players will feel it was watered down and isn't an advanced system anymore, and many players who have almost no frames will already be using it a lot which seems a bit silly. But if they raise the MR requirement again to a more reasonable level, even if not all the way to 15, even if they grandfather in those who unlocked it, that probably would go over like a lead balloon as it was already released with low MR requirement. They put themselves between a rock and a hard place. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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2 hours ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

Why is the bias towards Bile so annoyingly high?
 

It just seems high because it is the hardest to get. It appears as frequently as the others. There are 6 resources, three are used to subsume any particular frame and the other three to implant its ability and about half have bile for a subsuming and the other half for implanting. Same with every other resource.

Edited by xRufus7x
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4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I understand what you are saying. 

Personally, while it's probably too late now, I think they shouldn't have lowered it quite as low as they did. Maybe MR15 was high, but it should have been at least MR12 imo. 

DE has put themselves into another impossible position, so I can see both sides including your argument, even if I lean slightly to the other side than you on it. It's a messy situation because it was supposed to be advanced, but now they still want it to be advanced, but it's accessible to MR8's... 

I think stuff like this exposes the problems with the MR system in general. It's a great system for monetization in a F2P game, not so great a system for tracking player strength (which is really about how maxed your mods and arcanes are and how much forma you have in your gear). This also means it's really hard to come up with a system to track actual player strength. I'm not sure there is any real, realistic solution for tracking player strength without a great deal of restructuring. 

I understand you just want consistency and I get where you are coming from, but I'm just not sure there is any good answer now that they caved and lowered the requirements. Now if they lower the costs too much, players will feel it was watered down and isn't an advanced system anymore, and many players who have almost no frames will already be using it a lot which seems a bit silly. But if they raise the MR requirement again to a more reasonable level, even if not all the way to 15, even if they grandfather in those who unlocked it, that probably would go over like a lead balloon as it was already released with low MR requirement. They put themselves between a rock and a hard place. 

Sadly that's the issue with a system like this. It's insanely hard, possibly impossible to balance it so the majority enjoys it. As much as I want the resource cost to be fixed, I doubt it will be. And the same can be said for the MR requirement to use it. It's just hard to balance. One side, like me, will want one thing while another side, like yourself, will want a different thing. As much as I hate to say it, you are 100% right: there is no good answer. Best we can do is hope that DE balances it as best as possible. 

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)Pipolo said:

Exodia Contagion nerfed, why?

Many believe it was due to its overuse with bugs during Scarlet Spear to one shot condrixs with volt as he had two exploits with it. If te go pass the shields they take extra damage and cit damage but also never explode so they deal constant DoT. They also for some reason always damaged the weak points. So in combination they allowed for players to basically one shot them the second they opened up so they had teams of volt and mesa to just cheese the entire ground assaults very fast with little to  no effort just allowing players just easy P Z gain scarlet credits. still the issue was bugs ad not its natural mechanics.

Edited by (PS4)Laughing_Beta
fixing up
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