Perfectly Balanced, as all things should be

[intrinsics]

I'd like to extend my utmost thanks to DE for taking some feedback from Reddit and making great changes! 

 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, if you get someone to carry you, you can get a lot of resources and xp for very little effort.

Fail to see how getting carried in railjack is any different from getting carried in Index/ESO/wherever you want to farm resources.

And don't try to tell me you weren't carried. There is no way you pulled your own weight using only a Mag and starter weapons and got 66k Scarlet Spear points.

Also, most of those railjack resources would disappear very quickly if you used them to feed helminth. Also, you clearly never spent any of those resources on a railjack, as you don't have one, and thus those numbers are inflated.

DE can't balance things around players who are getting carried everywhere. Let me know how you feel about those railjack resource numbers after you've built a railjack and kitted it out.

[intrinsics]

18 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

So, what I'm getting from this is that, if you get someone to carry you, you can get a lot of resources and xp for very little effort.

Fail to see how getting carried in railjack is any different from getting carried in Index/ESO/wherever you want to farm resources.

And don't try to tell me you weren't carried. There is no way you pulled your own weight using only a Mag and starter weapons and got 66k Scarlet Spear points.

Also, most of those railjack resources would disappear very quickly if you used them to feed helminth. Also, you clearly never spent any of those resources on a railjack, as you don't have one, and thus those numbers are inflated.

DE can't balance things around players who are getting carried everywhere. Let me know how you feel about those railjack resource numbers after you've built a railjack and kitted it out.

er, no. You don't need any good gear to pull your own weight in someone elses Railjack. You just need to know what to do 
scarlet spear is an invalid point, when done efficiently it was an afk fest no matter how you look at it

Rising tide quest? Ah yes, 20 entire carbides to build one of the parts. 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

INB4 DE makes it so that if you spend more than a minute not Fighting/repairing/Piloting/gunning, you get flagged as AFK and lose all rewards and Affinity for that game.

you'd soon see people running around a Railjack like their a$$ is on fire! 

[Brosef42]

Yeah this is my biggest problem with railjack. Players aren't required to help to receive rewards. I don't even bother going public with my railjack anymore. Got tired of dealing with leachers. Not saying you are. Idk how they could change it though. without pissing people off. do you get rewards based on participation. How is that scaled? Do you make everyone have to grab resources themselves? that's just super annoying. it's just a bad system because they tied new resources to it. 

[intrinsics]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

INB4 DE makes it so that if you spend more than a minute not Fighting/repairing/Piloting/gunning, you get flagged as AFK and lose all rewards and Affinity for that game.

you'd soon see people running around a Railjack like their a$$ is on fire! 

yeah that would be a good change, some people in public runs just afk and leech. Gets pretty annoying

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

You mean to tell me that, as a Mag with starter gear and almost no mods, that you can pull your own weight if an enemy boarding party arrives, or if a crewship needs to be taken out from the inside, or when a ground crew is needed for an objective?

Because otherwise, you are just being carried, using someone else's ship, someone else's avionics, and someone else's guns.

Or is simply standing on a hijack target so that a teammate can use you as a power conduit 'pulling your weight'? Is picking up index tokens inside a Limbo bubble so the Limbo doesn't have to 'pulling your weight'? Is being present so that the Saryn has 25% more enemies to kill in ESO/the Nekros has 25% more bodies to desecrate in survival 'pulling your weight'? Is standing on an Interception point that the enemy isn't even going to 'pulling your weight'?

You were only slightly more invested than a leecher. You were profiting off of someone else's work, which is fine if they want you to, but it isn't something DE can balance around.

Again, build your own railjack and T3 weapons/components, and restock the consumables after each run, and see how impressive those resource amounts are.

[Spice]

24 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

So, what I'm getting from this is that, if you get someone to carry you, you can get a lot of resources and xp for very little effort.

Fail to see how getting carried in railjack is any different from getting carried in Index/ESO/wherever you want to farm resources.

And don't try to tell me you weren't carried. There is no way you pulled your own weight using only a Mag and starter weapons and got 66k Scarlet Spear points.

Also, most of those railjack resources would disappear very quickly if you used them to feed helminth. Also, you clearly never spent any of those resources on a railjack, as you don't have one, and thus those numbers are inflated.

DE can't balance things around players who are getting carried everywhere. Let me know how you feel about those railjack resource numbers after you've built a railjack and kitted it out.

If you actually knew anything about Railjack you'd already have worked out how insane it is. In a 2 person squad you can get more credits per hour than a 4 person squad can get in high index. You definitely do not need any Warframe mods or weapon mods whatsoever to have an effect on the outcome of a Railjack mission. You can equip a full loadout of unranked stuff and gain extremely fast MR while also farming these millions of credits. The change to helminth costs for railjack that DE has announced they will make will mean Railjack is the most overpowered lootcave for anyone that wants: credits/xp/helminth all at the SAME TIME

[Voltage]

24 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

So, what I'm getting from this is that, if you get someone to carry you, you can get a lot of resources and xp for very little effort.

Fail to see how getting carried in railjack is any different from getting carried in Index/ESO/wherever you want to farm resources.

And don't try to tell me you weren't carried. There is no way you pulled your own weight using only a Mag and starter weapons and got 66k Scarlet Spear points.

Also, most of those railjack resources would disappear very quickly if you used them to feed helminth. Also, you clearly never spent any of those resources on a railjack, as you don't have one, and thus those numbers are inflated.

DE can't balance things around players who are getting carried everywhere. Let me know how you feel about those railjack resource numbers after you've built a railjack and kitted it out.

Nah, it doesn't look like leeching, just doesn't look like a main account. /shrug

I could probably hold my weight in Railjack where 0 real Warframe progression matters on a fresh account (with thousands of hours of knowledge) that gets the quests up to Railjack completed. This just looks like a showcase of time / rewards, but it fails to point out where knowledge comes into play. Efficient Railjack squads aren't really the norm, just like the rest of the game. 

[intrinsics]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

that you can pull your own weight if an enemy boarding party arrives, or if a crewship needs to be taken out from the inside, or when a ground crew is needed for an objective?

none of these things happen when, as a team, you kill everything fast enough

[intrinsics]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Nah, it doesn't look like leeching, just doesn't look like a main account. /shrug

I could probably hold my weight in Railjack where 0 real Warframe progression matters on a fresh account (with thousands of hours of knowledge) that gets the quests up to Railjack completed. This just looks like a showcase of time / rewards, but it fails to point out where knowledge comes into play. Efficient Railjack squads aren't really the norm, just like the rest of the game. 

The "knowledge" needed is just how to use battle avionics (press number keys to use battle avionics) , and which avionics to install. It's extremely easy and accessible

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, intrinsics said:

The "knowledge" needed is just how to use battle avionics (press number keys to use battle avionics) , and which avionics to install. It's extremely easy and accessible

You're assuming someone with under 100 hours knows how to just jump into Gian Point and do a really efficient run. If it's so easy, why do public squads take a good few minutes or why not everyone under the sun is doing GP for Credits/Affinity? Simple, it is not as accessible as you make it out to be, and it requires underlying knowledge that again, is being taken for granted in this thread. I feel like you are making assumptions on the complexity of the topic and the game as a whole.

[Brosef42]

6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

You mean to tell me that, as a Mag with starter gear and almost no mods, that you can pull your own weight if an enemy boarding party arrives, or if a crewship needs to be taken out from the inside, or when a ground crew is needed for an objective?

Because otherwise, you are just being carried, using someone else's ship, someone else's avionics, and someone else's guns.

Or is simply standing on a hijack target so that a teammate can use you as a power conduit 'pulling your weight'? Is picking up index tokens inside a Limbo bubble so the Limbo doesn't have to 'pulling your weight'? Is being present so that the Saryn has 25% more enemies to kill in ESO/the Nekros has 25% more bodies to desecrate in survival 'pulling your weight'? Is standing on an Interception point that the enemy isn't even going to 'pulling your weight'?

You were only slightly more invested than a leecher. You were profiting off of someone else's work, which is fine if they want you to, but it isn't something DE can balance around.

Again, build your own railjack and T3 weapons/components, and restock the consumables after each run, and see how impressive those resource amounts are.

Yes Mag is OP as hell. You dont need a lot of mods to make her strong. Between magnetize and pull. You can keep enemies CC and kill them. Also you have no proof other than his gear, Last thing. Only bad drivers het boarded. 

[intrinsics]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

You're assuming someone with under 100 hours knows how to just jump into Gian Point and do a really efficient run. If it's so easy, why do public squads take a good few minutes or why not everyone under the sun is doing GP for Credits/Affinity? Simple, it is not as accessible as you make it out to be, and it requires underlying knowledge that again, is being taken for granted in this thread.

This is a community based game, I learnt everything I needed to know off one player. People are either just learning off the wrong people or there isn't enough guides out there

It does not detract from the fact that Railjack is overpowered

[Brosef42]

It's like these people have never heard of youtube or google. You know we have a giant wiki right?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

2 minutes ago, intrinsics said:

none of these things happen when, as a team, you kill everything fast enough

Which requires the extensive work of another player, which, as I said, is not something DE should use for balancing purposes.

There is no way you could have that many resources in that amount of time if not for another player using their hundreds of hours worth of railjack investment to let you.

1 minute ago, intrinsics said:

The "knowledge" needed is just how to use battle avionics (press number keys to use battle avionics) , and which avionics to install. It's extremely easy and accessible

What you showed off is a lot more than just that. You were perfectly timing your missiles, quick-swapping between the crewships and the fighters, and keeping track of when the cannon would be fully charged and ready to kill the crewship. That's something that requires a lot of time to learn. I have thousands of hours in Warframe, and thousands more in other games, and I don't think even I could be that efficient. DE can't afford to balance around the best of the best.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 minute ago, Brosef42 said:

It's like these people have never heard of youtube or google. You know we have a giant wiki right?

Watching a video or reading an article will not teach you how to do the things he did in that video. That's something that takes a lot of skill.

Also, all the wikis and videos in the world won't help you if you don't have someone else's ship to pilot. And not all public captains have that setup equiped.

[intrinsics]

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Which requires the extensive work of another player, which, as I said, is not something DE should use for balancing purposes.

  Yes the pilot does the most work. This is BY DE's design. 

 

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

There is no way you could have that many resources in that amount of time if not for another player using their hundreds of hours worth of railjack investment to let you.

  Does it not occur to you that maybe that other player decided they wanted credits, or xp, or helminth resources?

 

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

What you showed off is a lot more than just that. You were perfectly timing your missiles, quick-swapping between the crewships and the fighters, and keeping track of when the cannon would be fully charged and ready to kill the crewship. That's something that requires a lot of time to learn. I have thousands of hours in Warframe, and thousands more in other games, and I don't think even I could be that efficient. DE can't afford to balance around the best of the best.

I was not perfectly timing my missiles or quick-swapping?? (what is that) , I wasn't the pilot. I was using the forward artillery and doing the forge work. 

[Voltage]

7 minutes ago, intrinsics said:

This is a community based game, I learnt everything I needed to know off one player. People are either just learning off the wrong people or there isn't enough guides out there

You are heavily taking for granted your in-game knowledge still. Also, I'm aware of your host (who's a very good player ) in your GP speedrun video posted in the comments. Again, this is much less accessible than you make it out to be, and alot more complex. There are plenty of good PT guides out there, but still many players are quite slow. That's because PT is complex, just like Railjack. You're brushing off loads of preparation work/knowledge and practice.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Nah, it doesn't look like leeching, just doesn't look like a main account. /shrug

I could probably hold my weight in Railjack where 0 real Warframe progression matters on a fresh account (with thousands of hours of knowledge) that gets the quests up to Railjack completed. This just looks like a showcase of time / rewards, but it fails to point out where knowledge comes into play. Efficient Railjack squads aren't really the norm, just like the rest of the game. 

I didn't say he was leeching. Merely that he was carried, which I at least view as different from leeching.

For example, an MR3 player in Hydron that's using Rhino Roar to buff the squad because their own weapons can't kill anything is clearly being carried, but not leeching.

[Voltage]

Just now, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I didn't say he was leeching. Merely that he was carried, which I at least view as different from leeching.

for example, an MR3 player in Hydron that's using Rhino Roar to buff the squad because their own weapons can't kill anything is clearly being carried, but not leeching.

He isn't being carried.

[intrinsics]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

You are heavily taking for granted your in-game knowledge still. Also, I'm aware of your host (who's a very good player ) in your GP speedrun video posted in the comments. Again, this is much less accessible than you make it out to be, and alot more complex. There are plenty of good PT guides out there, but still many players are quite slow. That's because PT is complex, just like Railjack. You're brushing off loads of preparation work/knowledge and practice.

I mean, yeah its a good run. But i'ts able to be done. Therefore Railjack is overpowered. It is possible to get millions of xp and credits very quickly! and with the upcoming change you get infinite free Helminth resources as a bonus

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Just now, Voltage said:

He isn't being carried.

Which 'he'? the hypothetical Rhino or the OP?

Because if the hypothetical Rhino, I would say he is, He is in an area he could not normally access, with weapons that could not finish the mission.

The best way I can describe being carried is that if there were four of a given player in a mission, would it fail? If so, then that payer is being carried in that particular mission. That doesn't mean that they are leeching, however, as leeching implies that they are not doing anything to further the mission.

[Faras]

I mean... 88 hours into one game mode to get 44m credits, some resources that are useless outside of railjack, and a bunch of MR does not mean that railjack overpowered. 

Only really useful you're getting are the credits and forma bp. Both of which, even as a new player, you can get more efficiently from doing other things. 

[intrinsics]

1 minute ago, --RV--Faras said:

I mean... 88 hours into one game mode to get 44m credits, some resources that are useless outside of railjack, and a bunch of MR does not mean that railjack overpowered. 

Only really useful you're getting are the credits and forma bp. Both of which, even as a new player, you can get more efficiently from doing other things. 

But.. the resources aren't useless outside of Railjack. As per DE's recent announcement of upcoming changes