(PSN)Yggranya Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Aldain said: The reason Liches aren't popular is simple, it is content designed to aggravate and irritate the player. You might want to challenge a player, maybe even make them lose, but outside of the masochists who run things like Kaizo Mario World for fun most people don't want their video game time to irritate them. But lo and behold during the launch, we had people outright applaud things like the automatic death reveling not in the gameplay but the misery of others that it caused, people who insist that the player deserves to be irritated and mistake irritation for challenge. That's the issue at large with Warframe, a segment of players have confused irritation with challenge, long RNG slogs with hard work, and effortless 1-button killfests for 8+ hours in one mission with skill. This is the reason why i always wonder why people so vehemently beg every game developers to add "difficulty" and why often the developers cave to a small group of loud mouths. I have never played a game, other than some action games with focus on combat, to have any difficulty. Instead it's always the same old pump the enemies full of health and damage and give them some one-shot or other crap to annoy the player. Of course those action games fall for the same old BS, like all games, which is sad. It has never really been any different, because it's so easy to recycle. If only people recycled trash and such so dedicatedly. We would live on a less polluted planet. Irritating the player seems to be the norm for "difficulty" for some reason. If i had to guess why, it is because people want to flaunt that "i did this and you couldn't(in reality, just wasn't dumb enough to bother), hehehee" Which is, of course, a hilarious joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtflag Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Liches should appear for regular gameplay such as sorties, syndicate missions, relic opening etc rather than as a content island so you can progressing it even as you are doing other things. They played it too safe. There isn't any fear of failure with the existing lich system thus defeating the whole purpose of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thowed Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Add 20 new good weapons to them and I bet you'll see a spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 11 hours ago, Kaotyke said: But I wouldnt have minded the commitment to take long to kill a Lich, have it hunt you down and harass you in a non-optional way... but with this community? They seem to have an "Options" fetish at times. I've even seen people asking to opt-out of getting buffs like Roar. I want a way of disabling weapon speed buffs, but that's because they break polearms and have done so for a year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetosayajin Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 If they let me play endless survivals on the lich nodes, while getting the things after the 5-10 min mark I will gladly make liches just for the fun of it. Also if they drop more relics - I hardly get any from 2-3 complete lich hunts and the relics are important for the extra kuva when there is a kuva survival fissure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindigoTG Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 The first thing that needs to happen - liches must learn how to come for you anywhere, just like glass enemies, and not just chilling on their private island waiting for you to come. Unless this is a thing, no other changes will help to make people play liches after they've got the weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitfesz Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Nora is the real lich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureTerra Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Once i was confident in my ability to kill a lich of any level solo i stopped doing public lich missions because screw that and the average pubbies ability to do anything with their lich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)BuzzZaw82 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Actually we're thinking of going back and playing more to get weapons we don't have....be far more fun and enjoyment over trying to get Mech Mods running vaults over and over again....that there is wearing thin and no-where rewarding compared to Going after Liches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 16 hours ago, Kaotyke said: Yeah, Steve already talked about that. A nemesis that takes a long time (thus actually being a #*!%ing Nemesis) VS What we got. Considering the pacing of the game and the COMMITMENT the former option would take... they opted to make it what we currently have. But I wouldnt have minded the commitment to take long to kill a Lich, have it hunt you down and harass you in a non-optional way... but with this community? They seem to have an "Options" fetish at times. I've even seen people asking to opt-out of getting buffs like Roar. So, here we are. Not a nemesis, not a personal enemy that would take time to kill and maybe get involved with. But a farming pinhata. Yes I remember this. It was one of the few things they stated when criticism came out on the system that basically killed all hope i'd ever have of enjoying the system. Personally speaking I wouldn't care if the reward for doing the long hunt was something meaningless. Like a kill tracker for those kinds of Lich. I just want it as an option. The nemesis system specifically is good BECAUSE of the meaningful interactions. DE seemed to completely miss this point when trying to make a similar system. 16 hours ago, SenorClipClop said: Plain and simple: lack of evergreen rewards. There is nothing that Lich hunting specifically rewards you beyond a limited number of time you Lich hunt. Get alll the weapons and ephemera and that's it. Kuva drops but not as well as basically any other method that grants Kuva. And so if you encounter Lich squads, it's probably players that are on that journey to wear out the content. That said, I've been doing Liches semi-regularly since their release and it's been rare for me not to find a squad of at least one other person. I mean if that's really the main driving point then we can say that about any piece of content that DE creates. They don't creating meaningful rewards beyond something you get in a short burst of time. That's why content has always became islands rather than something more. While I can see rewards being an issue for Lich's I don't think having any long term rewards would really fix the system. At some point DE needs to learn that content needs to be connected. And we need to want to interact with it. Lich's could give me the best equipment in the game and i'd still deem it a failure because it's nothing like the system it's trying to mirror. But I shouldn't really be surprised. DE fails pretty hard when it comes to making actual interesting and interactive content. Maybe we wouldn't feel the need to burn through content as efficiently as possible if people actually enjoyed their time playing said content. But all DE does is make grinding longer and shove out more stuff to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enialyx Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Derp bosses Under many layers of RNG Ground for 16 different weapons And fuseable RNG copies Each with an RNG element And a derp name Topped with 16 times 5 forma grind And 16 x 5 levelings to 30 - 40 I want a cool action shooter, not a derp slot machine grinder. So far, have opted out entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 The best experience I had with a lich was one that showed up every single mission after the third one. Level 110 enemies may have held a bit of novelty at the start but they quickly lost that. Other people in this thread already suggested making the lich a boss node or pointed out that most of the time you arent actually fighting the lich. I fully agree there: make the lich show up every single mission in their territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SoulPharonix Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 My last lich (Killed him 2 nights ago) spawned in 5 missions in a row, last of which i murdered his lich face. My current lich is up to 3 in a row It would be nice if there was an option to extract all kuva from the lich, either reverting it to base level, resetting its requiems, boosting its weapon status % and giving it an increased chance to come with an ephemera if it didn't have one. Effectively New Game Plussing your Lich but not killing it or converting it, but makes it stronger This would do a few things Ease the process of hunting higher status weapons Ease process of hunting ephemeras Allow players the chance of converting a stronger buddy lich. It would also be interesting if Liches could invade normally in regular missions if said mission is on a planet within their influence. I for one an awaiting Corpus Nemesis and Infested Liches myself. Having 3 really angry murderhobos sounds very interesting, especially if there was a chance all 3 could spawn in to stomp your face in a single mission. Liches will make a comeback if they ever introduce Lich and NPC railjack crews and the Command Tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaoGarrent Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 It's another badly integrated modifier on the already long since largely forgotten star chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)DarknessZeref Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 On 2020-09-24 at 1:37 PM, White_Matter said: People either got everything they wanted, or they stay simply don't bother playing them. So as the one guy whose been going through lichs like a madman the past 3 weeks, let me explain why. 1) A sneaking suspicion.. that the more converted lichs you have, the greater likelihood of A LICH aiding you in EVERY OTHER mission, if not EVERY mission. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong- got 12 converted right now and looking to see how general gameplay feels with 20, but so far they already show up more. 2) A masochistic desire to be challenged. I'm devising the most deadly combos I can imagine... Radiation Tonkor. Impact Shildeg. Toxin Nukor. Combinations of powers and weapons that simply wreck my face. Admittedly, they're still not anywhere near impossible at Rank 5- which I effort-fully get them to so they're stronger companions, but what's the harm in having a personal Ginyu Squad? + with rumors of lichs taking over parts of our railjacks, what's the harm in having a few extras? 3) Kuva and Requiem relics. I'm MR 29, Kuva is to me what credits is to an MR2- I'm farming it. The relics equal kuva to me and longevity in killing more lichs. 4) High Level Content. With rank 5 lichs making levels scale to 90-110, I enjoy this greatly. While I rarely die at these levels, every now and again I get shot in the chest and am reminded I killed a lvl110, not a 10 and adds a sense of exhilaration despite having scaled past its relevance. 5) Preparation for Corpus lichs. The more lichs you kill, the faster it is to discover requiems for new ones. With all of you complaining about the very real shortcomings of the system, I expect the 39 lich fatalities I have under my belt will actually feel like a significantly reduced farming time pending changes. Regardless, I'm gunning for 50. 6) NOT leveling weapons to 60%, because that's actually real-life unnecessary. Is it somehow gonna kill these level 9999's...faster? Doubt it. It just needs a splash of x damage type to be combined into something useful. You're not looking at significant increases from 25%-60% in my opinion. 7) Platinum for when I realize everything that's currently true gets publicized and subsequently nerfed- so all the extra lichs I wasted time grinding can go to someone looking for that weapon and I get some plat for my trouble. I do have some criticisms of the system. The #1 is summoning your lich. Why can't I? That's stupid. Give him a node and let me confront him, that's the only gaping hole of a flaw I thought they'd have addressed before a full year went by. I forgive the lack of voice acting, being interesting or any of that. I don't even read their names anymore, it's just another scrub for my slave bin. I can't forgive spending 2 extra hours farming for it to show up when I have the combo, it makes me wanna die tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Imortalsteel45 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 a lich should be weaker cause its a mini boss and all the other bosses are really easy they say that the sargeant is the haardest bos but i just oneshot with snipetron v and a lich takes about a few hours of course i could do the lich solo except on lvl 5 lich killing so they should make the lich an assasination for the kuva quens and quests to defeat the kuva queens and capture the fortres and make kuva weapons from 3 grand bosses that protect the queens and the bosses need to have droptables like sorties and have kuva rivens and the kuva weapns from the quest require mr5 must have completed war within and assasinate 1 kuva boss to start my personal opinions is that kuva lich hunting is fun but it should have a side quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkelheit Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Honestly, the elemental percentage of the weapon should be revealed AFTER you killed the lich, not in the beginning. Nothing more mind numbing than farming a weapon that is lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalest2 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said: Honestly, the elemental percentage of the weapon should be revealed AFTER you killed the lich, not in the beginning. Nothing more mind numbing than farming a weapon that is lackluster. This right here is basically the core of what I think the latest content in warframe is really missing the mark on. There seems to be very little thought on what the player will actually 'feel' while playing. No one will be excited to play 3 hours of anything if the result is a 26% twin stubba and they know regardless of any input on their end thats what they will get. If you knew in d2 you'd get bad drops when you joined a game you would just leave and remake. You wouldn't still kill the boss anyway just because. Random loot on kill is a very different feeling than random hours before you complete the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killa_Byte Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 not worth the grind for the final outcome if you get something 25-35 % range I got all my weps I want see you next year MR Liche.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_of_Psi Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 2020-09-24 at 6:51 PM, Ailia_Grimm said: The thralls should be removed & the Liches should be an actual boss, not a mini one Right now the system is more about murmurs than the Lich itself This ^ Remove the Thralls/Murmur System completely and replace it with just the need for the Mods themselves. This way, the more you fight your Kuva Lich (After downing him/killing him/her) you learn what mod you need to use, keep fighting your Lich in say 3 Stages Birth: Fighting/Stabbing to Learn. (Do this 3 times) Rage: Use the mods required to kill Showdown: Lich goes to his ship (Railjack), you do the final blow, get weapon, get cosmic (Or spare him, get crew) Ofc, the level will need to be changed, so it makes it more difficult, Lich is stronger and more powers, shows up almost all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar-Dawn Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just an idea, clearing a planet could "Liberate it" giving bonuses for a day or so. Would need more than just that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman_Bird Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 The whole Lich process is boring, and there's nothing engaging about stabbing thralls over and over hundreds of times. There needs to be something unique about lich grinding to make it entertaining. Railjack finales will help, but it needs more than that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDMblue Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I would just Shadow of War them. Add 15-20 open lich spots. Make 2 boss level lich ruling the sector. Lich fight every day over nodes and power. Like sow. Some die some grow in power. Every day you get lich missions to get murmurs. Doing these also causes the lich in your game to progress and fight each other. stabbing your lich is like a 3 part hack. Pick what murmur you want to use on the fly. If you have gotten one right it sticks. Liches randomly spawn in missions like stalkers. The top ruling lich is the one who gets the space battle. No stealing from you. Lich who you convert steal from other lich until they are found out. Max 3 active allied liches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebiko Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I think the biggest improvement is to remove it from its own content island. The ramifications of doing that is huge, along with lots of new interactions and bugs. That's why devs always make content islands, because it's simpler and easy, a time and money issue. But that means a worse experience for the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)adrian80 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 2020-09-24 at 11:07 PM, SpiritTeA said: Farming murmur is super terrible in solo, always farming requiem mods, luck based parazon stabs (you can be lucky and kill lvl 1 lich with all 3 preinstalled mods, in theory, or getting right mod as last). I'd rather get rid of murmur and thralls at all and leave only lich. You fight him at some mission and stab him, that's how you trying to guess right parazon combination. Increase lich ranks from 1-5 to kinda 1-25, so it will be not so strong at start, but will be much stronger at the end. And give more kuva for killing lich Pretty much this. Also allow the lich to spawn randomly in any mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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