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Time to change "blast".


IncuBB

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Just as it says.
Blast status effect is pretty useless. Like one guy on Reddit said: "What's the point in reducing 2 or 3 targets accuracy, when they have a thousands of friends, that currently shooting at you."
Blast as it now should go away. 

Blast effect as i suggest, may bring some variety in gameplay and mods choice.

So here we go.

I suggest, that blast status effect shouldn't affect targets directly. Instead it should affect weapon itself.
Let's take an example.
Weapon have a 50% Blast status. It will give a 50% chance to inflict AoE damage around target with 50% weapon damage (may varie due balance).
So... At 100% blast status chance, weapon will deal 100% damage AoE with 100% chance.
Of course, in order to avoid OP AoE levels, the damage percent should be capped or balanced in other ways.
 

What do you guys think?

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How do you determine the radius of each weapon or is it a set radius? If so, how large is the radius?

If the AoE effect procs can the AoE damage cause status effects as well? Can it proc blast again (and again)?

Just a few questions that immediately came to mind.

This also seems oddly similar to what gas does and gas generally isn't refered to as good either.

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2 минуты назад, (PS4)Deeceem сказал:

How do you determine the radius of each weapon or is it a set radius? If so, how large is the radius?

If the AoE effect procs can the AoE damage cause status effects as well? Can it proc blast again (and again)?

Just a few questions that immediatly came to mind.

This also seems oddly like what gas does and gas generally isn't refered to as good either.

1. No. Each weapon should have different blast radius. Slower weapons have a larger blast. Fast weapons have smaller.
2. Yeah. I think it should proc elemental damage as well. But of course not like: "Trigger fire DoT with explosion, fire starts to proc multiple explosions". It will be unbalanced as hell.

Blast status should act more like a weapon "augment" rather than status.

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb IncuBB:

1. No. Each weapon should have different blast radius. Slower weapons have a larger blast. Fast weapons have smaller.
2. Yeah. I think it should proc elemental damage as well. But of course not like: "Trigger fire DoT with explosion, fire starts to proc multiple explosions". It will be unbalanced as hell.

Blast status should act more like a weapon "augment" rather than status.

1. How large of a radius? Does modding positive or negative fire rate affect it or does it only take the base fire rate into account? How do you differentiate attack speed on melee weapons from fire rate on guns, if you do? Draw speed on bows?

2. You realize a weapon with only (or very high) blast and 100% status chance would perma-proc blast as long as two enemies are in range of each other after one attack/bullet, right?

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25 минут назад, (PS4)Deeceem сказал:

1. How large of a radius? Does modding positive or negative fire rate affect it or does it only take the base fire rate into account? How do you differentiate attack speed on melee weapons from fire rate on guns, if you do? Draw speed on bows?

2. You realize a weapon with only (or very high) blast and 100% status chance would perma-proc blast as long as two enemies are in range of each other after one attack/bullet, right?

1. Radius depends on fire rate AND type of weapon. For example Tigris would have a pretty large AoE, while Soma would have a rather small radius.
Of course slow weapons would benefit the most. Not sure about the bows though (thx for pointing that out btw).
No, melee weapons shouldn't have a blast effect at all. It would be overkill at most.
2. Sorry if i was explaining wrong. Status affects bullets, not enemies. Of course, if the weapon have multiple pellets - they would trigger explosions. But explosion itself is not gonna trigger another explosion. It would be fun but unbalanced.
Of course it rises question about shotguns. But in this case i would stick to current DE status proc calculations for shotguns. But again - it's not for me to decide how to balance numbers...
Also i think about limit status chance to 100% to keep things balanced. As for 100% weapon damage AoE - again it's not for me to decide on numbers. It was just an example of how this would work overall.

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4 hours ago, IncuBB said:

Just as it says.
Blast status effect is pretty useless. Like one guy on Reddit said: "What's the point in reducing 2 or 3 targets accuracy, when they have a thousands of friends, that currently shooting at you."
Blast as it now should go away. 
 

This something I just posted here in feeback. Have a read. This is a example of how blast procs could be useful

The mods full name is Amalgam Furax Body Count.

This is the mod description:

+15 Seconds Combo Duration

+20% Blast Radius on Specialised Launchers

_____________________________________________________

Melee Kills Knockdown Enemies Within 15m

 

The Reason & What Doesn't Work With This Mod:

Both the combo duration and blast radius work as intended.

The way the melee knockdowns work is that enemies within 15m & in line of sight of the target you killed are given a blast proc. You see the issue?

Blast procs no longer cause knockdowns (they now lower enemy accuracy) this means that the knockdown part of this mod doesn't work as the mod itself says anymore.

Ideas For a Fix:

1. Change the description to "Melee Kills Lower Enemy Accuracy Within 15m" and make the enemies in range receive a blast proc with 5 or 10 stacks.

Like other status effects blast can stack up to 10. the first proc lowers the targets accuracy by 30% and then each added stack lowers it by a further 5% (capped at 10 stacks). So 5 stacks = 50% lower accuracy and 10 stacks = 75% lower accuracy. This isn't a very powerful status effect so it makes sense too at least afflict enemies with 5 stacks or 10 stacks because of that fact.

2. Fix it to work as intended.

Nothing to add here. It hasn't been working since the status changes we got about 6 months ago. 

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While i've had this idea myself the issue is it basically makes every weapon aoe taking away any special aspect to innately aoe weapons it would also likely multiply their damage and status chance based on the number of enemies it hits.  I have a riven ogris that shoots 4 shots at once each with over 100% status chance if each enemy hit by that then did another explosion it would be like an additional shot for each.  If I hit two enemies for example it would double my damage and status on each. 

This would also be very inconsistent with other procs which all do a their own damage type like gas and electric.

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It would be more sensible for DE to just swap Impact procs with Blast procs, because that’s the closest thing to how Blast procs used to work. It would actually be the best of both worlds, considering that Impact procs on melee as it is now and how it traditionally was was a bane to close quarters combat. And most melee and guns have Impact built into their base stats, some guaranteeing Impact procs. The stagger animation in Impact procs deters skillful play for some weapons/playstyles that warrant headshots or warrant enemies to maintain their standing position.

If Blast procs were to inherent current Impact procs, it would diversify how anyone would want to mod for Blast: Modding for the elemental combo would mean you would opt-in for staggers and possibly proc finishers if the enemy sustains enough stacks to open them to that mechanic.

From there, it would be a question of whether Impact procs would inherent the diminished accuracy debuff that Blast used to have or have it revised to something entirely different/better. Imho, to save any more headaches, Impact procs inheriting the diminished accuracy debuff would be fine (especially with so many weapons in our arsenal that guarantee Impact procs).

It’s a simple fix. Why DE hasn’t made any changes since the status ailment revision is beyond me. Maybe DE simply forgot, don’t care enough to make these improvements, or they relish in seeing us suffer and have a sick sense of voyeurism in reading and neglecting important feedback about Blast and its proc.

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On 2020-09-25 at 11:17 AM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

It would be more sensible for DE to just swap Impact procs with Blast procs, because that’s the closest thing to how Blast procs used to work. It would actually be the best of both worlds, considering that Impact procs on melee as it is now and how it traditionally was was a bane to close quarters combat. And most melee and guns have Impact built into their base stats, some guaranteeing Impact procs. The stagger animation in Impact procs deters skillful play for some weapons/playstyles that warrant headshots or warrant enemies to maintain their standing position.

If Blast procs were to inherent current Impact procs, it would diversify how anyone would want to mod for Blast: Modding for the elemental combo would mean you would opt-in for staggers and possibly proc finishers if the enemy sustains enough stacks to open them to that mechanic.

From there, it would be a question of whether Impact procs would inherent the diminished accuracy debuff that Blast used to have or have it revised to something entirely different/better. Imho, to save any more headaches, Impact procs inheriting the diminished accuracy debuff would be fine (especially with so many weapons in our arsenal that guarantee Impact procs).

It’s a simple fix. Why DE hasn’t made any changes since the status ailment revision is beyond me. Maybe DE simply forgot, don’t care enough to make these improvements, or they relish in seeing us suffer and have a sick sense of voyeurism in reading and neglecting important feedback about Blast and its proc.

Well, besides the removal of the 4xIPS priority, the status changes were mostly a step backward in terms of diversity. We had Viral/Slash, Corrosive and Gas. With the Corrosive cap and Gas procs no longer dealing toxin (also capped at 10 opposed to other dots), Viral is always the right answer unless status immune. Why DE gave Viral and Magnetic equivocal bonuses when everything has health and not shields is a mystery. DE is scared of doing damage reworks nilly willy, yet at the same time it seems they don't spend too much time thinking about it before they execute. I'm surprised DE didn't kneejerk kneecap Viral already like M4D.

Blast used to be decent if you wanted to opt into finishers with your melee and how it counted as 2 procs for Condition Overload.

The problem is that a lot of procs right now are just different flavors of each other with some flavors being straight up better.

Puncture's damage debuff, Blast's accuracy debuff are simply inferior to something like Cold's speed debuff. Just different flavors of reducing incoming damage just like Impact and Heat without the flailing.

Viral, Corrosive and Magnetic are just different flavors of damage boosting with Viral being the universal one. Corrosive only has its +75% Ferrite which double dips over Viral's +75% Cloned Flesh which only single dips, but Viral has synergy with Slash.

Radiation is something I like. It reduces incoming damage and peels off aura's on certain enemies (underutilized mechanic). Only caveat is that enemy damage doesn't match up with enemy eHP though the +75% Alloy is the reason why you would want to run it due to the way armor class modifiers work.

Heat is a jack of all procs with DOT, CC and Armor Stripping. Even if the enemy doesn't have armor, it remains useful, compared to Corrosive that doesn't do anything against unarmored enemies. Maybe that was the logic of making Deimos infested immune to Viral just to make it more in line with Corrosive and Magnetic procs being useless on certain enemies.

Puncture and Impact weapons got buffed with the 4xIPS priority removal because their procs are that lackluster compared to Slash and remain so, but even they are better than what Blast is now.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Just make Blast damage Ragdoll enemies stupidly high into the air, the way slam attacks did during melee 2.5 before they fixed it.

Then I'd build for Blast just for the Luls, regardless of DPS effectiveness.

If Blast were changed to that, it would actually help against insanely high level targets, in theory. Or at least make them stop attacking for a bit (Ragdolling through the air into a wall, if not off the edge of a map, etc.) so you can land more damage.

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I like the idea of blast "priming" a target to explode, but I also feel that's stepping on Nova's toes.

I think it should be an AOE effect of some sort. Ideally damage, stun, knockdown or a combination. Maybe have Blast propagate elemental status effects to nearby targets? Any weapon that deals blast damage, when procing Blast will then apply all elemental status effects that it proced along side to all nearby targets within range of the Blast effect. Blast would not propagate in this manner but if Blast damage is dealt as an AOE it can cause a group of enemies to all proc on each other in a massive proc-splosion of damage.

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