Jump to content
Whispers in the Walls: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Suggestion: How to REALLY fix Marked For Death.


KVenom

Recommended Posts

Let's be honest lads: no one would have any problem, if you would remove the "Target's Current HP" Cap.
Sure, you shown us on Devstream that you raised the Radial Damage cap, but let's face it: it doesn't change much.

You can leave the Radial Damage Cap on 65%-70%, and all the fixed exploits, like Arcane Trickery/Crits/Double Mods untouched. No one was actually against fixing those. That was a real fix of real exploits.

Just remove that one Cap, that makes this ability useless. Even if you raise the Radial Damage cap to 100%, the skill will still be Trash, as long as Current HP of the Target being the factor.
Just. Remove that. Much more easier to code, the removal of this cap will remove a whole line of damage calculations, thus removing a few slowdown issues some of my Clanmates encountered.Those clanmates in question have outdated PC's. Not too outdated, since they can comfortably play Open Worlds with stable 50 FPS. But your "change" to MfD kinda slowed them to a Halt, whenever an Oblivious/Stubborn Ash Main shown up.
UPD: New info on slowdowns - apparently they happen only on Deimos. And only if there are TONS of enemies affected. Perhaps that last issue is less linked to the skill itself, and more to Deimos' own optimisation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Removing that cap would make it broken like before, though. Kinda removes the whole point of DE nerfing it in the first place.

How would it be broken, precisely? Would it outperform things like peacemakers?

Keep in mind that the state before the nerfs was also affected by the old Basmu bug of mods double dipping (as I understand it anyway), so even if the HP cap were to be removed, it'd still be far weaker than it was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Removing the cap wouldn't make the ability broken.  What it does is make the maximum damage the ability can do by scaling occur at all enemy levels. The health cap is in practice a cap on damage based on enemy level making M4D weaker the lower the level is. Since people were used to it doing its full power at low levels this added type of scaling feels terrible at low levels.

If they really want it to work that way then what they should do is make the ability always do a % of the enemies health to the target + the weapon damage. Then it would be a buff to the damage against a single target with an aoe that scales to the enemy health. Rather than a cap on the players damage that scales down to the enemies health. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

В 25.09.2020 в 09:00, Pizzarugi сказал:

Removing that cap would make it broken like before, though. Kinda removes the whole point of DE nerfing it in the first place.

In what regard? May I remind you, that all other stuff will be in place, including the 70% cap on radial damage, and the removal of actually broken interactions like stacked mods glitch/100% Arcane Trickery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

В 25.09.2020 в 09:38, Solarsyphon сказал:

Removing the cap wouldn't make the ability broken.  What it does is make the maximum damage the ability can do by scaling occur at all enemy levels. The health cap is in practice a cap on damage based on enemy level making M4D weaker the lower the level is. Since people were used to it doing its full power at low levels this added type of scaling feels terrible at low levels.

If they really want it to work that way then what they should do is make the ability always do a % of the enemies health to the target + the weapon damage. Then it would be a buff to the damage against a single target with an aoe that scales to the enemy health. Rather than a cap on the players damage that scales down to the enemies health. 

A bit too much damage here, assuming that I understood you correctly. Imagine the Exalted Blade + Radial Blind combo finisher triggering it. So no, just the cap removal will suffice.
Also, they actually made the cap just based of current hp of the target, and didn't rework the damage. So you are still doing weapon damage, just capped by Target's Current HP.(It gets especially terrible when the target's HP is not full, because you deal an even smaller ammount of damage, because it still calculates it basing of that HP ammount)
And that's why all the old PCs are getting slowed, when someone uses MfD near them. Because that cap was just an additional line of calculations, that complicated the already complicated damage system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, KVenom said:

A bit too much damage here, assuming that I understood you correctly. Imagine the Exalted Blade + Radial Blind combo finisher triggering it. So no, just the cap removal will suffice.
Also, they actually made the cap just based of current hp of the target, and didn't rework the damage. So you are still doing weapon damage, just capped by Target's Current HP.(It gets especially terrible when the target's HP is not full, because you deal an even smaller ammount of damage, because it still calculates it basing of that HP ammount)
And that's why all the old PCs are getting slowed, when someone uses MfD near them. Because that cap was just an additional line of calculations, that complicated the already complicated damage system.

Nah it wouldn't be that much damage. Basically the AOE would only scale on the enemies health not your hit like what it does now  but it would do it consistently so it wouldn't matter what you hit it with.

Edit: I dont like this idea it just seems like the direction that the  original nerf took the ability. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 минуты назад, Solarsyphon сказал:

Nah it wouldn't be that much damage. Basically the AOE would only scale on the enemies health not your hit like what it does now  but it would do it consistently so it wouldn't matter what you hit it with.

Edit: I dont like this idea it just seems like the direction that the  original nerf took the ability. 

I see. Well, the thing is: what you ask kinda means reworking the whole formula of that damage. What I suggest, is just a removal of one additional ridiculous line of calculations, that's added after the initial one.
Besides, what you ask is kinda not working: MfD is using the incoming Damage, may it be Weapon or Ability. It copies the Damage's Type, Status(if inflicted), and current damage number you dealt to the target.(if you have base damage of 2 and get a Crit with 2.x mult, it copies only the result and spreads 4 damage*75%, and that's without the health cap)

It doesn't deal any damage on it's own, it only copies what you done to the Marked target and spreads it to others in the radius. And that's why that "Target's Current HP" cap is idiotic in it's concept. It only complicates the already long line of calculations, since it adds an additional modifier of target's HP before you dealt the damage, that Triggered the explosion. And what you ask makes even more calculations, because you ask the programm to calculate specific damage for each afflicted target. That would cause even more freezes.

Counting damage from one and spreading the same number to all others is easier, that what you want. That's why Vauban using his Flatchette Orb on too many enemies at the same time causes slow-downs for 60% of players, even without the effects, because his damage scaling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-09-26 at 12:33 AM, KVenom said:


And that's why all the old PCs are getting slowed, when someone uses MfD near them. Because that cap was just an additional line of calculations, that complicated the already complicated damage system.

Dude, its just like 5 extra floating point Multiply operations, That's insignificant. Trust me, its not what's slowing your PC down.

go Turn off particle effects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, So DE didn't intent for it to apply damage straight off your weapon card, cause you can Overkill (see Borderlands mechanic) with that. Fair.

So they capped it based on enemy HP

... that would be OK, except that enemy HP and enemy EHP are Not the Same thing. especially as armor Level goes up.

 

Just make MFD cap at Enemy EHP, that achieves the no Overkill goal, but still lets it work at high level.

done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 минут назад, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал:

Dude, its just like 5 extra floating point Multiply operations, That's insignificant. Trust me, its not what's slowing your PC down.

go Turn off particle effects.

It doesn't slow MY pc down. I already mentioned in the original post, sony boi. READ IT.
My clanmates with performance-challenged pc's are at stake here.
Not to mention, that 's not a 5 extra floating point, if the damage is exceeding enemy HP and/or has too much stats - weak PCs have troubles when said Ash/Excalibur uses that on too many enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 минут назад, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал:

Ok, So DE didn't intent for it to apply damage straight off your weapon card, cause you can Overkill (see Borderlands mechanic) with that. Fair.

So they capped it based on enemy HP

... that would be OK, except that enemy HP and enemy EHP are Not the Same thing. especially as armor Level goes up.

 

Just make MFD cap at Enemy EHP, that achieves the no Overkill goal, but still lets it work at high level.

done.

If it was basing on enemy's Max HP, it would be slightly less dumb. Still annoying and idiotic, but less dumb. And this is not "overkill" mechanic from BL(you don't get any effects from exceeding enemy HP), it's just a flat damage given that is recorded in stats. That's why you can be best DD without making most kills on the mission. And that's how MfD works - it uses that recorded damage to the Marked target, it's type and applied Status Effects(if any) - and then transfers it as the damage of the Explosion.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, KVenom said:

It doesn't slow MY pc down. I already mentioned in the original post, sony boi. READ IT.
My clanmates with performance-challenged pc's are at stake here.
Not to mention, that 's not a 5 extra floating point, if the damage is exceeding enemy HP and/or has too much stats - weak PCs have troubles when said Ash/Excalibur uses that on too many enemies.

I was referring to the Nebulous royal 'you'. so You, your clanmate, whoever internet rando happens to read this at any given moment.

they're all just 'you' to me. The distinction doesn't really matter, I'm not going to remember their names.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Только что, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал:

I was referring to the Nebulous royal 'you'. so You, your clanmate, whoever internet rando happens to read this at any given moment.

they're all just 'you' to me. The distinction doesn't really matter, I'm not going to remember their names.

Whatever. Anyway, they have a Potato Configs, so low Particles, no Shadows, no nothing. I made sure of it, over Discord.

We here have a Problem with overnerf and a potential harm towards people with old PC's. If you want add something - it better be usefull.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Whatever. Anyway, they have a Potato Configs, so low Particles, no Shadows, no nothing. I made sure of it, over Discord.

We here have a Problem with overnerf and a potential harm towards people with old PC's. If you want add something - it better be usefull.
 

Whatever

game shouldn't have to be held back for all the rest of us cause someone out there has a potato PC that's below the listed system requirements for Warframe.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 минут назад, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал:

Whatever

game shouldn't have to be held back for all the rest of us cause someone out there has a potato PC that's below the listed system requirements for Warframe.

 

Game shouldn't be held back by people who think something is OP without actually trying and testing it. Or just because it can clear a small group of enemies. We have Equinox, Saeyn, Khora, Mesa  - those can clear the Room faster than MfD ever could.
Fixing obvious bugs is not holding the game back, sony boi. We are not talking Potato PC's, just outdated. They can use Direct X 11.
And besides, you will not be affected untill we, PC players, test it and suffer through first patch effects, so get over yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Game shouldn't be held back by people who think something is OP without actually trying and testing it. Or just because it can clear a small group of enemies. We have Equinox, Saeyn, Khora, Mesa  - those can clear the Room faster than MfD ever could.
Fixing obvious bugs is not holding the game back, sony boi. We are not talking Potato PC's, just outdated. They can use Direct X 11.
And besides, you will not be affected untill we, PC players, test it and suffer through first patch effects, so get over yourself.

Got simultaneous releases now, remember?

Consoles getting so much more glitches now cause new content isn't getting ironed out by PC ahead of time anymore, and then the console update Certification process means having to live with it for months before fixes can come out. It sucks

Need PC Beta mode back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 минут назад, (PS4)haphazardlynamed сказал:

Got simultaneous releases now, remember?

Consoles getting so much more glitches now cause new content isn't getting ironed out by PC ahead of time anymore, and then the console update Certification process means having to live with it for months before fixes can come out. It sucks

Need PC Beta mode back.

Couldn't agree more about the last sentence. Seriously, give me acces to the testing servers, I'll give that baby a stress-test under crappy network speed.
Also I got new info from me clan - that slowdown issue only happens on Deimos. So once more, undo the calamity that is your mammaries.
Removing the cap will not bring any bugs or glitches. As I said, it's just an additional line of code, on top of already fixed MfD. So no crazy Radius from stacked mods, no 100% Arcane Trickery, no crits from your Cat - so it won't be OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mostly agree but I personally didn't think the trickery interaction needed nerfing.  It's not like MfD was widely abusable on any frame.  It largely benefits frames that can abuse stealth multipliers and could easily make people open to finishers.  But maybe i'm just the odd one out here on wanting Trickery to be usable again.

 

On 2020-09-25 at 1:00 AM, Pizzarugi said:

Removing that cap would make it broken like before, though. Kinda removes the whole point of DE nerfing it in the first place.

No, what was broken about it was the double dipping on mods.  That didn't need a nerf to be fixed.  Nerfing it so it wasn't effected by crits is fair since that plus stealth multipliers and the bug are what let people hit the damage cap.  What wasn't broken was it's ability to Kill enemies in an AoE since it was limited to highly specific setups and it's clearing potential was tied to LoS.  The ability was advertised in it's own video as killing in an AoE.  DE just changed their mind about what they wanted it to do.  Which they have the right to do.  But there wasn't a justification to changing it's interaction beyond that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 часов назад, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал:

I mostly agree but I personally didn't think the trickery interaction needed nerfing.  It's not like MfD was widely abusable on any frame.  It largely benefits frames that can abuse stealth multipliers and could easily make people open to finishers.  But maybe i'm just the odd one out here on wanting Trickery to be usable again.

Ash can still use Trickery with MfD+FT setup, since you still do the Fatal Teleport most of the time. So removing that is fine. Besides, Devs are ain't gonna buff Xoris, so this here will not be revoked.
But the Gdamn "Target's Current HP" cap gotta go. Pronto.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, KVenom said:

Ash can still use Trickery with MfD+FT setup, since you still do the Fatal Teleport most of the time. So removing that is fine. Besides, Devs are ain't gonna buff Xoris, so this here will not be revoked.
But the Gdamn "Target's Current HP" cap gotta go. Pronto.

Ugh don't remind me of the Xoris situation.  I'm still upset about it =/  And I guess.  But it was nice seeing it be usable on other frames.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 минуту назад, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал:

Ugh don't remind me of the Xoris situation.  I'm still upset about it =/  And I guess.  But it was nice seeing it be usable on other frames.

True. But as I said, let's concentrate on more detrimental issues. Like that cap, that turns the good skill into resource-wasting trash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...