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Melee is strong but seldom used


Nailclipper

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Now that I think about it, melee is a bit weird (or is it?).

It's the only viable way to play the game when you started because you didn't have the resources to fully mod your gear. Then you transition to guns till you hit steel path and use melee again to clear steel path nodes. Now that SP Vodyanoi is cleared so you can farm Endo there, you begin to seldom use your melee weapons again. Let's see:

  • Cetus bounties: Guns, Redeemer Prime or maybe Stropha for killing Tusk Thumpers
  • Tridolons: Guns or Redeemer Prime
  • Fortuna bounties: Guns
  • Orb mothers: Guns and Redeemer Prime, but melee is also viable for shutting down Profit Taker's shield
  • Deimos bounties: Guns and Redeemer Prime/Stropha for 'mechs
  • Relic fissures: Guns
  • Railjack: Guns, maybe Paracesis for killing sentients?
  • Sorties: Guns and Redeemer Prime for Lephantis
  • Arbitrations: Guns, melee for Disruptions

Well, I guess I'm wrong because Redeemer Prime and Stropha are melee weapons!

I have this nice Dragon Nikana riven with +CD, +AS, +Heat, and -CC for sliding attack. I'm finding reasons for it to be not just sitting on my hip but I think the only way for it to be "useful" is if I do endurance runs or if I take my Ash for some SP bounties.

If melee is supposed to be a strong backup to guns then I guess it's already achieved, except for some particular applications like endurance runs and Endo farming.

What do you think?

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What?

 

i mean up to a certain point melee and range weapons are kinda on par (the point where you are still overkilling things with ranged weapons) ,

but when you are no longer killing enemies with one bullet then melee starts becoming more efficient.

your choice of melee weapon (redeemer/stropha) in your examples is also not quite suitable those are gunblades - an exception to most rules

 

a WELL BUILT melee will out perform guns in 9/10 cases, and the plethora of QOL possible with them for things (healing , finisher , arcanes . stealth multiplier)

the few times guns are better is for enemies that are always out of melee reach.

 

Quite honestly i use guns for the nice sound and feel of the shot  - getting a head shot of a fast moving target with a rifle has this satisfaction to it - i cant explain it very well.

Melee can feel good too , but they are usually just ... too spammy to feel like i am actually putting any effort. They are just a "quick clear" option.

 

In my opinion the difference between melee and ranged weapons is far too vast to make a fair comparison, melee is broken guns cant keep up.

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Melee weapons are the only weapons that are used in high level endurance. guns do not even have a chance against them. However it is totally understandable that guns are preferred in regular star chart missions and such, because they are still capable of killing enemies faster at longer range than walking to them with melee.

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Bruh...

Melee is ridiculously more powerful than any primary/secondary weapons.

I use melee almost all the time, unless its nearly imposible to be useful (profit taker, eidolon, etc).

I see no reason to use primary/secondary weapon when i can clear the room much much faster with melee + riven with range stats (range is a must, at least for me).

 

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Guys, I find that Mirage or Chroma with guns melts steel path enemies already there's no reason to use melee. Hell, Inaros with Mausolon also kills steel path Grineers relatively fast (aim for the head!).

Unless there's a way to kill a bunch of enemies fast with melee weapons like using Exodia Hunt to group them. Please tell me more about this.

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2 minutes ago, Nailclipper said:

@0_The_F00l Now I'm back to guns for SP nodes and bounties too, unless I'm playing Ash.

Mirage + guns just kills faster for SP than hitting the enemies with melee weapons, unless my meleeing sux (I do have a Kuva Nukor).

i think your melee build needs work - do share so we can identify the issue. Mirage damage will be ... a little strange depending on the environmental lighting but i don't think it will be better than melee.

the kuva nukor is good , but you can probably out damage it if you build your nikana right,

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Just now, Nailclipper said:

@0_The_F00l Now I'm back to guns for SP nodes and bounties too, unless I'm playing Ash.

Mirage + guns just kills faster for SP than hitting the enemies with melee weapons, UNLESS MY MELEEING SUX (I do have a Kuva Nukor).

That might be the problem. 

With mods like Condition Overload, Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds guns can't compete with melee

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Only very few guns can compete with melee weapons and only against weak enemies. Kuva Nukor, Kuva Bramma, ignis wraith, (catchmoon before the nerf) are examples. DE is deliberatly designing bosses and similar enemies to be immune to standard melee strikes so they can keep our damage in check and give guns a reason to exist.

The key part is AoE. With Primed reach melee weapons have the AoE edge over most guns with no damage falloff, no need to reload, no need to aim and a much higher potential damage output. Closing the distance to enemies is pretty much never an issue with warframe's movement options. There's no need to patch up your gun's weakness with a chroma style frame and you can instead bring something more useful to the mission.

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5 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

i think your melee build needs work - do share so we can identify the issue. Mirage damage will be ... a little strange depending on the environmental lighting but i don't think it will be better than melee.

the kuva nukor is good , but you can probably out damage it if you build your nikana right,

 

5 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

That might be the problem. 

With mods like Condition Overload, Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds guns can't compete with melee

I think you guys didn't catch what I mean. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Melee is strong but the reason it's seldom used is because you need to get close to the enemies which slows down your "room clearing time". Mirage or Chroma can easily annihilate SP Grineers already with guns.

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1 minute ago, Nailclipper said:

Melee is strong but the reason it's seldom used is because you need to get close to the enemies which slows down your "room clearing time".

Only if you're bad at meleeing. You should be able to mow through enemies as you progress through the room, unlike using a gun which requires you to slow down, aim, shoot and then progress. 

Sure, you don't need to slow down much to shoot, but you don't really slow down at all whilst meleeing.

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5 minutes ago, Nailclipper said:

Guys, I find that Mirage or Chroma with guns melts steel path enemies already there's no reason to use melee. Hell, Inaros with Mausolon also kills steel path Grineers relatively fast (aim for the head!).

Unless there's a way to kill a bunch of enemies fast with melee weapons like using Exodia Hunt to group them. Please tell me more about this.

i am starting to really think you dont have the right mods and stances for most of your melee weapons.

1 minute ago, Nailclipper said:

 

I think you guys didn't catch what I mean. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Melee is strong but the reason it's seldom used is because you need to get close to the enemies which slows down your "room clearing time". Mirage or Chroma can easily annihilate SP Grineers already with guns.

Yeah , we really need to fix your melee builds,

catching up to enemies is as fast as aiming for them with warframe movement system outside of those few cases where they are out of reach and can only be tapped by gun fire.

Using Chroma and mirage is a poor excuse and not even completely true, a chroma with melee is not slower than a chroma with guns to clear anything :)

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Only if you're bad at meleeing. You should be able to mow through enemies as you progress through the room, unlike using a gun which requires you to slow down, aim, shoot and then progress. 

Sure, you don't need to slow down much to shoot, but you don't really slow down at all whilst meleeing.

Do you melee your way through relic fissures exterminate? I find using Ignis Wraith faster.

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Just now, Nailclipper said:

 

I think you guys didn't catch what I mean. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Melee is strong but the reason it's seldom used is because you need to get close to the enemies which slows down your "room clearing time". Mirage or Chroma can easily annihilate SP Grineers already with guns.

Mirages buff is inconsistent and Chroma needs to take damage for his buff. Any frame with a well built melee and clear steel path with a melee just as fast if not faster than with a gun. 

In the time it takes to aim and shoot I can close that distance and melee multiple enemies. Some maps (the new Corpus tiles) make melee slightly more difficult but aiming at enemies on those tiles isn't any easier. 

This game is all about fun though. If you prefer using guns then go for it. Claiming that guns are faster because mirage or chroma can do it quicker does not really hold up. A Khora can run through a map using "melee" and one shot everything before you can take a shot. 

 

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1 minute ago, Nailclipper said:

Do you melee your way through relic fissures exterminate? I find using Ignis Wraith faster.

Of course you do, but as I've already commented, you can't really make community generalisations based on your personal playstyle. If you want to cling to whatever the meta is for a particular objective, then obviously some things are going to be "seldom used". I'd imagine that 99% of your weapons and frames are "seldom used".

Not everyone does that though, because this is a video game with hundreds of options.

And really, given that slide attacking retains (and increases slightly) your speed, whilst firing the Ignis stops you sprinting, it should be easily comparable.

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"Seldom" hah!. Melee is very used across the whole game. There is a long lasting thread elsewhere on here about the people who want to give up primary and secondary's to have more melee options. So you have decided to pigeon hole yourself into using X weapon for X mission assume that everyone else does the same bland thing you do. I have to work hard not to go ham with melee on whatever frame and with whatever melee weapon im equipped with for the sake of my wrists these days.

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24 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

lith , meso , neo , axi or kuva? as i said , up to a certain point guns and melee are on par. after a certain point melee wins by a large margin.

Well all of them of course. Do people not blaze through fissures with Ignis Wraith or Kuva Nukor? 

19 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Mirages buff is inconsistent and Chroma needs to take damage for his buff. Any frame with a well built melee and clear steel path with a melee just as fast if not faster than with a gun. 

In the time it takes to aim and shoot I can close that distance and melee multiple enemies. Some maps (the new Corpus tiles) make melee slightly more difficult but aiming at enemies on those tiles isn't any easier. 

This game is all about fun though. If you prefer using guns then go for it. Claiming that guns are faster because mirage or chroma can do it quicker does not really hold up. A Khora can run through a map using "melee" and one shot everything before you can take a shot. 

 

Mirage's Hall of Mirrors is buggy atm because her clones have double crit chance and do 100% damage. Have they fixed it? She actually shouldn't be this strong so we will see if she will still be able to decimate steel path enemies with guns when her HoM is fixed.

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Just now, Nailclipper said:

Well all of them of course. Do people not blaze through fissures with Ignis Wraith or Kuva Nukor?

Melee would take the same time in all 4 fissures,

ignis and nukor will start becoming just a tad bit slower with axi and kuva.

 

I still would like to know the melee build you have ,

as of now i feel like i am trying to explain the concept of the sky to a dwarf that has never seen it.

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Just now, Nailclipper said:

Well all of them of course. Do people not blaze through fissures with Ignis Wraith or Kuva Nukor? 

Mirage's Hall of Mirrors is buggy atm because her clones have double crit chance and do 100% damage. Have they fixed it? She actually shouldn't be this strong so we will see if she will still be able to decimate steel path enemies with guns when her HoM is fixed.

Decimate means reduce by 1/10. Any frame can decimate enemies in Steel path. 

On my HoM Mirage build I run a ~10m Kronen Prime. I'm a walking blender. No aiming required. If there is bug on mirage it wouldn't matter, results would be the same. 

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