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Achieving "Family" status reward should've been a Mech Mod!!


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4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Yes. 

"Time gate involves anything that extends the mission artificially."

https://www.whatgamesare.com/gating.html

 

Where is your reference, source or link? 

 

Quote

In massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs), time sinks are a method of increasing the time needed by players to do certain tasks, hopefully causing them to subscribe for longer periods of time.

Miller, Matt. Timesinks, MMODesigner.com, 31 May 2010.

But I respect that you were willing to concede the point even before I responded: 

18 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

1-0

 

 

Until you figure out what the terms you're trying to use actually mean, there's no real point in just sitting here constantly correcting you. 

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Timegating and time sinks are and are not the same thing.

Both artificially extend playtime in a game. Some time sinks are not tied to overall progress and are entirely optional. All time gating is a requirement for progression involving some level of limitation on content based on a timer.

Warframe is full of time gating, and timesinks. Daily standing, forma, and all foundry tasks that take longer than a minute. Rng drops, high resource farm times, required tasks that have no other purpose than to make something take longer.

The problem to me isnt the timed mechanics tho, its their use as an excuse to make spending money look like the better option.

Asking DE to "just let me spend plat to get x faster" is enabling further scam like behavior, further gating and sinks. DE made the problem to sell the solution.

Its the single most scummy business pratice that you see in F2P and even some AAA games these days.. and its consumers blind acceptance of it that lets things like Lootboxes and "Games as a service" mentality from publishers to constantly push games into soulless money making schemes with pretty graphics.

At 30+ years i have grown steadily disgusted with both the developers and fellow gamers.. you all are making my life long hobby into a sickening pile of garbage.

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46 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Timegating and time sinks are and are not the same thing.

Goes under the same set of time artificially extended activities. 

46 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

 Its the single most scummy business pratice that you see in F2P and even some AAA games these days.. and its consumers blind acceptance of it that lets things like Lootboxes and "Games as a service" mentality from publishers to constantly push games into soulless money making schemes with pretty graphics.

At 30+ years i have grown steadily disgusted with both the developers and fellow gamers.. you all are making my life long hobby into a sickening pile of garbage.

Then pick another hobby. There are many. 

I will get the PS5 and move towards other classical games like Cyberpunk 77 and other franchises like Spider Man and Horizon Zero. There are choices that goes traditional without the pay to win model or the game as a service model or GAAS. 

My take is that DE will continue with their habits. People will agree with them other set of individuals will move on towards other games. It's perfectly fine. We can't think that DE is perfect. They are not. 

There will be more options out there in the market providing a wide variety of choices. DE is under TENCENT now. It depends on DE what the fate of this franchise will be. Covid is not helping and there are tons of issues this game needs to address. Deimos was a good attempt in my opinion but not the best one. A good change of pace was the necramech. 

Let see how DE handles Duviri...

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4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Here we go again. 

Time gate has one parameter. It is global. It's not exclusive. It's inclusive. 

 

Everything that requires TIME

That is included in a time gate activity. Yes. Everything that affects, expand and requires TIME

Welcome to THAUMICA. 

Welcome to AVICHAEA. 

Welcome to Mod drop chances for the Necramech. (Partially fixed)

Welcome to Grandmother Crystal Chard requirement for the Trumna and the Sepulcrum. Each requires 20. (Only way you get a combo of five or four Grandmother tokens happens when Son's tokens are included in the mix) People who wants to speed up acquisition are forced to mine, hunt and fish.

Hence a time gate. 

A time sink is included in the set of time gate. 

Anything that extends artificially the progression of a game is a time gate. 

A gate is something that effectively stops you, something that says "no, you cant spend more time here". That isnt how any of the gathering works, it is how tokens and rep works in the game. Just as farming forma from lephantis is a timesink, while building formas is a time gate (1 per day). So no, not everything that requires time is a gate, it is either a sink or a gate depending how it is implemented. 

The only thing you hit that is correctly a timegate in your essay is grandmother tokens for the crystal, since they are... well... gated by a timer so you cannot grind them at your own pace. If you were always able to buy atleast 1 token from her, it would no longer be a timegate, since it could be done at your own pace aslong as you are willing to sink time into it.

And again no, something that extends progression is not a gate, since it doesnt stop you from actually progressing at your own pace. At most that would be what is considered a hill, but never a wall or a gate that effectively blocks you. For instance, Avicheas, that is just a run in with RNG. If it was an actual gate you'd never be able to grind them as you see fit and they'd take the same amount of time for everyone to hunt down the needed amount of, over a specifically monitored time window. Gates are always the same for everyone.

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1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

A stop always consumes? TIME. 

A sink always consume? TIME.

 

Difference? None. 

Nope. A gate/stop doesnt consume time. A gate makes it impossible for you to consume time on it as you please. A sink consumes whatever time you decide to invest in it. You grind your rep to the daily cap, the time consumed is what you spend on the bounties. The gate doesnt consume more time after the cap of the day is reached. A sink can be endless in consumption, only you decide when enough is enough.

Deimos rep is also less of a gate than previous worlds, since you can effectively manage your time to get the most out of it. If you have nothing left to do for the day you can grind tokens for the next day if you know you have other things to attend in-game or outside of it.

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3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope. A gate/stop doesnt consume time. A gate makes it impossible for you to consume time on it as you please. A sink consumes whatever time you decide to invest in it.

......

 

 

"Time gate involves anything that extends the mission artificially."

You are right a gate or cap extends it. What takes few days is extended on long waits. 

 

The mechanisms of time sink and time gates deal with the same variable, TIME

 

The term I used in this discussion was time gate. I never spoke about time sink

In Deimos there is the XP cap. That is a time gate.  

In Deimos if the player wants to go faster he is obliged to mine, fish and hunt because five token exchanges involves Son or Daughter or both, hence a time gate. 

In Deimos farms for certain items like the Grandmother shard requires 20 tokens for the Grand mother involving an implicit cap hence a time gate. 

 

Are you playing War Frame or Minecraft, Ervin? I think you have a different game installed in your computer. Try to see which game you are playing. Be sure that you have War Frame installed. 

Edited by Felsagger
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DE wants us to play the content. They can’t put all the mech mods for sale. 

 

The top reward should have been umbra sentence helminth fragment.

They already did the work a while ago of making it possible to give umbras (thing?) to other frames, but the way they did it was bad. By just letting us inject it into frames for a cost of helminth resources (permanently) would have been worth getting.

Should require rank 10  helminth To insert.

Edited by BDMblue
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A true reward for this should not be a mod. 

 

A true reward for this would be a variant of the Necramech with more advanced weaponry and a level of customization for legs, arms, weapon load out, perks, and three weapons for primary. 

The Saw and Kitguns where great ideas why not start the same project on the mech? 

The best reward for this game are not mods or rivens. The best reward is a good set of weapons and a good vehicle or a feature that becomes a game changer. The helminth was a great idea with potential extensions. 

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22 hours ago, Felsagger said:

"Time gate involves anything that extends the mission artificially."

You are right a gate or cap extends it. What takes few days is extended on long waits. 

 

The mechanisms of time sink and time gates deal with the same variable, TIME

 

The term I used in this discussion was time gate. I never spoke about time sink

In Deimos there is the XP cap. That is a time gate.  

In Deimos if the player wants to go faster he is obliged to mine, fish and hunt because five token exchanges involves Son or Daughter or both, hence a time gate. 

In Deimos farms for certain items like the Grandmother shard requires 20 tokens for the Grand mother involving an implicit cap hence a time gate. 

 

Are you playing War Frame or Minecraft, Ervin? I think you have a different game installed in your computer. Try to see which game you are playing. Be sure that you have War Frame installed. 

Why do you put that red in quotes when it isnt even a thing I've said and then go on and say "You are right..."? Please dont put words in other peoples mouths. The "quote" means quote, as in something said exactly like that by someone else. You should in reality not pick a specific color nor highlight parts of it in bold if it is a quote. Not that it is an actual quote in your case, unless you waddled around and thought you read my post when reading someone elses. But since you pinged only me, you must have made up that I said it.

You also change your narritive right now by suddenly putting weight on the tokens, which I've already said are the gates of deimos. Your initial argument was that fishing, mining and hunting were the gates. Which they arent since you can do them as much as you like with zero things telling you "that's enough for now, come back later".

And of course timegate and timesink deal with the same variable which is time, it still doesnt mean the two are interchangable when talking about system mechanics. They are very different when it comes to what they do and how they work. Hunting, mining and fishing will never be timegates, since we can do them as much as we like when we like, just as mod farming will never be a timegate either, since we can do the activity that drops them as much as we like whenever we play.

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On 2020-09-27 at 6:44 PM, Felsagger said:

A true reward for this should not be a mod. 

 

A true reward for this would be a variant of the Necramech with more advanced weaponry and a level of customization for legs, arms, weapon load out, perks, and three weapons for primary. 

The Saw and Kitguns where great ideas why not start the same project on the mech? 

The best reward for this game are not mods or rivens. The best reward is a good set of weapons and a good vehicle or a feature that becomes a game changer. The helminth was a great idea with potential extensions. 

As the OP...I would agree with that if this were any other DLC, new or past areas...BUT...my "tonged-in-cheek" poke at this was and is that The Necramech Mods are very rare, one place to get, has a insane drop chance almost in line or worse with Rare Prime Parts for a New Playable Item that is pretty much useless, not worth upgrading or playing if you don't get the Mods.

For everything else we have...Frames, Primary, Secondary, Melee, Archwing...we can and have access to any and every available Mod thru "Several maps, places, modes and even events" to actually play them....Not With The Necramech....one place, one mode, one map for all the Mods....at which one has a total of six chances which are slim....to get those mods over a period of around 30 minutes or so....that makes zero sense while providing a ton of frustration....

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15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why do you put that red in quotes when it isnt even a thing I've said and then go on and say "You are right..."? Please dont put words in other peoples mouths. The "quote" means quote, as in something said exactly like that by someone else. You should in reality not pick a specific color nor highlight parts of it in bold if it is a quote. Not that it is an actual quote in your case, unless you waddled around and thought you read my post when reading someone elses. But since you pinged only me, you must have made up that I said it. (Low quality bait. The sentence I quoted is mine, pay attention to the board, read first react later)

You also change your narritive right now by suddenly putting weight on the tokens, which I've already said are the gates of deimos (The discourse was the same, you are not paying attention to the discussion with assumptions like this. The conversation originated on XP caps, time gates and extensive grinds in Deimos). Your initial argument was that fishing, mining and hunting were the gates.(Hence that traduces to the tokens. Five tokens distributes son and daughter tasks, four tokens usually takes son's or daughter tasks) Which they arent since you can do them as much as you like with zero things telling you "that's enough for now, come back later".

And of course timegate and timesink deal with the same variable which is time, it still doesnt mean the two are interchangable when talking about system mechanics. They are very different when it comes to what they do and how they work. Hunting, mining and fishing will never be timegates, since we can do them as much as we like when we like, just as mod farming will never be a timegate either, since we can do the activity that drops them as much as we like whenever we play.

 You do not play the game at all. You don't know how it operates because you don't expose yourself to it. I bet you don't have the three weapons and necramech completed. I can safely say that you don't have the mods of the necramech. I can safely say too that you don't have the Entrati syndicate maxed out. Do you know why I know this? Because the way you write things down. 

Your brain wiring and chemistry can't comprehend the simple idea that War Frames are NOT workers. They are not salary employees doing fishing mining or hunting. War Frames are weapons of war. The game has a flaw because DE goes dismissive extending the grind on errands instead of turning those errands in missions. Their game design is flawed off the bat. 

1. Add a mining bot to mining where the player must protect him from enemy attack. He mine fast with certain perks and tech that the player finds. 

2. Turn the mining drillers as an activity where the player can call them whenever he or she wants making mining an interesting grind. 

3. One of the factions, Red Veil, could be a crew of few doing the fishing for you while you defend them. You call the transport whenever you want them out of the scene or in the scene. 

4. If the Entrati depends on fishing mining and hunting then that deserves a better revision instead of plugging those shores in with few tiny updates. 

 

The problem here is that DE IS NOT playing their game. They have to game test their features and updates more. They have to suffer the grind themselves so they know what things are flawed and what things works with game testers in their company. They are not doing that assessment.  

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)BuzzZaw82 said:

As the OP...I would agree with that if this were any other DLC, new or past areas...BUT...my "tonged-in-cheek" poke at this was and is that The Necramech Mods are very rare, one place to get, has a insane drop chance almost in line or worse with Rare Prime Parts for a New Playable Item that is pretty much useless, not worth upgrading or playing if you don't get the Mods.

For everything else we have...Frames, Primary, Secondary, Melee, Archwing...we can and have access to any and every available Mod thru "Several maps, places, modes and even events" to actually play them....Not With The Necramech....one place, one mode, one map for all the Mods....at which one has a total of six chances which are slim....to get those mods over a period of around 30 minutes or so....that makes zero sense while providing a ton of frustration....

 

Reward distribution through the ranks of the Entrati family and a great reward for a great grind creates interest and continuous activity throughout the game. 

1. Vehicles, weapons and extra customization is a reason for a great grind. 

2. Options more than the usual for example four weapons for primary in the Necramech would be a reason for a great grind. 

3. Weapons that takes out heavy enemies in that particular area, Deimos, is a reason for a great grind. 

4. More than mods and stupid captura scenes people wants better key elements in the game that expands the daily experience. 

examples: 

a. Use the necramech everywhere where restrictions or cool downs are imposed on normal missions. For example spy missions a mech is impractical. 

b. A similar game mode like Frontier in Titan Fall 2 grind would be an excellent horde mode for the game where rewards could be moderate including forma. 

c. Boss invasion mode where the player should equip their hardware for a fierce battle against heavy enemy forces. 

 

A reward is not a special item that makes a war frame over powered. A reward is an item, scene or game play ability that adds depth to the game. 

See? 

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2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You do not play the game at all. You don't know how it operates because you don't expose yourself to it. I bet you don't have the three weapons and necramech completed. I can safely say that you don't have the mods of the necramech. I can safely say too that you don't have the Entrati syndicate maxed out. Do you know why I know this? Because the way you write things down. 

I know that you are just trolling, and the disappearance of your post earlier today tells me that the mods on the forums are looking at the thread, but I gotta admit I'm curious as to what you said here. 

There's like 7 Deimos weapons, which 3 are you referring to: Keratinos; Zymos; Sepulcrum; Trumna; Cortege; Mausolon and Quassus. There's just too many combinations for me to bother trying to figure out which ones you're talking about. Because honestly if it's Quassus, Sepulcrum, and Trumna, I gotta say that those are leagues easier than that blasted Cortege at least for me. 

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7 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 You do not play the game at all. You don't know how it operates because you don't expose yourself to it. I bet you don't have the three weapons and necramech completed. I can safely say that you don't have the mods of the necramech. I can safely say too that you don't have the Entrati syndicate maxed out. Do you know why I know this? Because the way you write things down. 

Your brain wiring and chemistry can't comprehend the simple idea that War Frames are NOT workers. They are not salary employees doing fishing mining or hunting. War Frames are weapons of war. The game has a flaw because DE goes dismissive extending the grind on errands instead of turning those errands in missions. Their game design is flawed off the bat. 

1. Add a mining bot to mining where the player must protect him from enemy attack. He mine fast with certain perks and tech that the player finds. 

2. Turn the mining drillers as an activity where the player can call them whenever he or she wants making mining an interesting grind. 

3. One of the factions, Red Veil, could be a crew of few doing the fishing for you while you defend them. You call the transport whenever you want them out of the scene or in the scene. 

4. If the Entrati depends on fishing mining and hunting then that deserves a better revision instead of plugging those shores in with few tiny updates. 

 

The problem here is that DE IS NOT playing their game. They have to game test their features and updates more. They have to suffer the grind themselves so they know what things are flawed and what things works with game testers in their company. They are not doing that assessment.  

Sp you assume alot and make personal attacks at the same time. I have the weapons I'm interested in, can buy any of them when I want otherwise, I have the necramech, I've maxed entrati standing even though I took a "break", doing barely no entrati grind since Avengers released. Got most of the mods for the mech aswell, though it is no real stress since they are only usable in open worlds atm.

And more personal insults. Wow, you cant stay civil and respectful at all. The theme of the game doesnt change what the activities are, so you are off topic aswell right now. None of your points matter since it is related to fluff and not what we actually talk about. Stay on topic atleast.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I know that you are just trolling, and the disappearance of your post earlier today tells me that the mods on the forums are looking at the thread, but I gotta admit I'm curious as to what you said here. 

How? I'm simply writing my point of view. Trolling is a deliberate throw off on the thread. I simply wrote "Low quality bait with an image".

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There's like 7 Deimos weapons, which 3 are you referring to: Keratinos; Zymos; Sepulcrum; Trumna; Cortege; Mausolon and Quassus. There's just too many combinations for me to bother trying to figure out which ones you're talking about. Because honestly if it's Quassus, Sepulcrum, and Trumna, I gotta say that those are leagues easier than that blasted Cortege at least for me. 

Two of those requires. Those are Sepulcrum and Trumna. That sums a total of 40 rare shards provided by Grandmother. 

I have not touched Zymos, Keratinos and Quassus. So I can't tell on those. If the game provides alternatives to Fishing, Mining and Hunting I would happily accept the trade of time. The flaw of the game is how these activities are conceived. I made a discussion on those details answering another post. 

 

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23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sp you assume alot and make personal attacks at the same time.

There is a difference between attack and supposition. The way you type things gives me that impression. 

Quote

I have the weapons I'm interested in, can buy any of them when I want otherwise,

You can't buy Trumna and Sepulcrum. Those must go throughout the rigor of the Chrystal antiques of Grandmother. 

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I have the necramech, I've maxed entrati standing even though I took a "break", doing barely no entrati grind since Avengers released. Got most of the mods for the mech aswell, though it is no real stress since they are only usable in open worlds atm.

I can't tell if you are saying the truth or not. I have to see pictures. You know how a proof goes. 

Quote

And more personal insults. Wow, you cant stay civil and respectful at all.

Those are not insults. I'm telling you that you can't distinguish the fact that War Frames are not maintenance bots. Never said that your wiring is faulty or your brain chemistry is skewed. 

Don't try to find insults on places they do not exist. 

Quote

The theme of the game doesnt change what the activities are, so you are off topic aswell right now. None of your points matter since it is related to fluff and not what we actually talk about. Stay on topic atleast.

Wrong. 

The topic is how rewards are distributed, one of the main sub topics are the end rewards. For some rewards the time gate is way too harsh. And other rewards are not distributed throughout the ranking. 

For example, makes more sense leaving Helminth for Rank 5. This will make all the players go throughout the complete ranking in the Entrati Syndicate. After Rank 4 there is no incentive for me. If I get a sudden interest on captura scenes then I go for rank 5 or 'family.  

See? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Wrong. 

The topic is how rewards are distributed, one of the main sub topics are the end rewards. For some rewards the time gate is way too harsh. And other rewards are not distributed throughout the ranking. 

Nope since we were talking about your definition of timegate which you apparently apply to everything.

Also, the rest are personal attacks since you question someones experience and use that against them, here aswell with baseless assumptions and zero facts. Even if you had facts to support those assumptions it would be against the forum code of conduct. Maybe go read up on that before making more personal attacks based on assumptions.

And if you really care about entrati standing and weapons, you can look it up in game on the profile.

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5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If the game provides alternatives to Fishing, Mining and Hunting

You can ignore hunting beyond 2 son tokens (which you can find out in the Cambrian Drift), 5 Avichaea tags, and 1 medjay tag required to rank up. Alternative is use your wallet to buy the required tags.

Mining and Fishing already have an alternative in the form of Requiem pillars, which are easy to do.

If you can’t be bothered with that, again, wallet is a way around it.

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9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope since we were talking about your definition of timegate which you apparently apply to everything.

The definition was clearly stated. Yes there is a difference in time sink and time gate. I DEFINED that time gate is everything that extends the game artificially. It was written down explicitly. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, the rest are personal attacks since you question someones experience and use that against them, here aswell with baseless assumptions and zero facts.

Doesn't matter how many time you write down personal attack. A personal attack is a derogation of your reputation. A personal attack is a direct insult. A personal attack is deliberate mockery or any other ill intention of satire. 

I wrote: "I bet you don't have...." Read the thread. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Even if you had facts to support those assumptions it would be against the forum code of conduct. Maybe go read up on that before making more personal attacks based on assumptions.

I know the code of conduct quite well. Don't worry. I know the difference between personal attack and of course a challenge. I played the game. I know the difficulties that a player confronts, otherwise I would not be here talking about things that I don't know. 

And I'm not going to see your your profile. That's up to you. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if you really care about entrati standing and weapons, you can look it up in game on the profile.

I would care about Rank 5 in the Entrati syndicate if such rank is a requisite fighting Vome or Fass for other types of rewards. 

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26 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You can ignore hunting beyond 2 son tokens (which you can find out in the Cambrian Drift), 5 Avichaea tags, and 1 medjay tag required to rank up. Alternative is use your wallet to buy the required tags.

I'm in Rank 4 right now and I have half of the mods. I'm simply taking it slow. 

Of course there are ways to work around those two but such strategy takes more time because tokens that are grouped on four or five in the token trade with grandmother includes son and daughter or any of the two. 

Speeding farming requires a complete set of Bounties, Fishing, Hunting and Mining. Evading any of those activities, wish is possible, adds more time on such ranking. 

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Mining and Fishing already have an alternative in the form of Requiem pillars, which are easy to do.

I include those when I want fast farming. But rarely the pillars drops thaumica or any other rare Chrystal. 

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If you can’t be bothered with that, again, wallet is a way around it.

I have the weapons already, the ones that I want. For the mods, I'm trading goods. Those are easy to find. I usually provide good average Rivens for those cards. 

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45 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I include those when I want fast farming. But rarely the pillars drops thaumica or any other rare Chrystal.

image0.jpg?width=1194&height=671

Could probably double that amount easily with a squad. Only Xenoharst and Embolos gems don't drop from pillars, and you don't need many of those.
Son tokens are farmed by leveling infested companions (you usually can encounter a weakened one while doing a bounty or by just spending a min or 2 circling around for one) and trading them for son tokens (you get 10 per companion). You can multitask and be leveling other other gear at the same time.
Deimos is very generous in rewarding you for time invested. 14k standing earnable by a 15 min bounty, most of the resources you'll need and more in < 3 hours of farming.

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