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15 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

There's no Primed Vitality to begin with, so why would there be Primed Redirection?

Umbral Vitality is Primed Vitality as hinted by the inability to use both VItality and Umbral Vitality at once. The only difference with other standard Prime mods is that the prime buff doesn't activate on its own.

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Umbral Vitality is Primed Vitality as hinted by the inability to use both VItality and Umbral Vitality at once. The only difference with other standard Prime mods is that the prime buff doesn't activate on its own.

It costs more and it requires another Umbral mod or altogether to trigger a set bonus.

That’s a prime buff, for sure. :thinking:

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

It costs more and it requires another Umbral mod or altogether to trigger a set bonus.

That’s a prime buff, for sure. :thinking:

But it is essentially what you would expect the stats to have if it was prime.

Just because you have to have the set to get it doesn't change the numbers. Same with Primed Umbral Intensify. 

The fact Umbral forma are rare and many abilities don't want to run all those three mods, especially umbral fiber and have little use for it... it's supposed to be a balancing factor because they thought those would be too strong as standalone primed mods. 

I'd like to see them add more Umbral mods for stuff like Redirection, but instead of making an entirely new set dependent on each other, just have to have three for bonus or something.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Edited by Tesseract7777
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I don't... see why we would even want this...

What we want out of Shields is the mechanics of shields, not the actual number. It's the same with Health actually, we don't just want the base value to be high, we want all the supplementals that go along with it, such as armour-based damage reduction, non-specific damage reduction (such as Adaptation) and so on.

Shields are great for tanking in the current game because of their mechanics, they have a built-in 25% damage reduction and the ever-popular Shield Gating mechanic. Frames that thrive on their shields are ones that have mechanics for bringing them back up again quickly and avoiding damage that bypasses their shields, or in Hildryn's case they can actually prevent the damage that bypasses shields by going into Overshields.

Since we don't have an 'overhealth' mechanic, I would argue that we don't need a Primed Redirection or an Umbral Redirection since every single frame, whether they invest in shields or not, can always get up to 1200 Overshields. 

With that buffer in place, you barely even need a Redirection on the frames that do well with shield mechanics. Frames like Mag, for example, do really well with one of the Health mods that buffs something else, like the Gladiator set mod, or the new Carnis mod set. They give them a little extra base health, just in case, but then their abilities give them their Overshields and they're running around with that constant buffer of 1200+ Shields to draw from at any time.

Point of fact, the primary action you need with shields is to be able to bring at least some of them back quickly, without interference, and reach full-charge with them quickly after that. While you don't want only a few hundred shields for that, you definitely don't need the amount of shields that a Primed or Umbral mod would give you, because that would only slow down the regen, rather than let you consistently reach the full-charge and reset your Shield Gate.

As it is, with the mods and mechanics we have, Shields are in an amazing place. They don't need a new mod for them like this.

If there were to be a new Umbral or Prime mod in the works, I would much rather DE looked into something more practical. Like Damage Reduction that can apply to Shields the way Armour applies to Health.

Or better yet, damage reduction that can apply to the frame overall, meaning that both Shields and Health benefit from it.

For a suggestion as to a better Prime mod to get, why not Primed Stretch? If Stretch is 45%, Augur Reach is 30% and Overextended is 90%, then make it 70% Range. Not as good as the Corrupted mod with its drawback to Strength, not as good as putting on two mods at once, but a massive 25% buff over the base mod.

As a suggestion for a way better Umbral mod to look into;

Spoiler

I vote Umbral Streamline.

DE said a while back that Primed Streamline was completely off the table. The difference here is that with Umbral modding you have a significant downside to trying to use it in terms of the cost, and the result of actually investing in it can actually be better than the equivalent Corrupted mod.

An Umbral Streamline could start out at 30% Efficiency, just like regular Streamline, and explain that the extra mod cost is for the damage reduction vs Sentients and for the set bonus potential.

At rank 2, Umbral Streamline would maybe be at 42% Efficiency, meaning that it would be better than regular Streamline, and a standard for any frame putting on Umbral Vitality, but not needing the power strength of Umbral Intensify (such as a Loki, Gauss, Nyx and so on).

At rank 3 (max rank, as all Umbral mods would be), that converts to 66% Efficiency, still not hitting that max of 175%, but better than a Fleeting Expertise without the drawback of negative Duration, and you would still need to use a Fleeting to get to max efficiency, or you would need to use Duration to balance it.

The benefits for Caster frames out of a triple-Umbral build would be spectacular; able to get high Strength, high Health and high Efficiency with just 3 mods at no drawback barring the cost of the mods themselves. It would actually be worth putting an Umbral Forma onto a caster, rather than a tank. This would leave you with 5 slots and multiple choices if you Forma right. With options like Primed Continuity, Flow, that Primed Reach I mentioned earlier, then the Augur set to top up your stats, or a Corrupted mod to bias them... You have a lot of flexibility there without needing to go into negative stats.

So there's plenty of options out there for new mods.

I just don't agree that a new Redirection variant is even needed.

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er... um... Umbral Forma? I really don't need more Umbral mods at 16pts 

+ more umbrals would mean capping benefit when combining them, or else everyone would want to run 4 umbrals all the time

just give me umbral forma!

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25 minutes ago, Canach said:

er... um... Umbral Forma? I really don't need more Umbral mods at 16pts 

+ more umbrals would mean capping benefit when combining them, or else everyone would want to run 4 umbrals all the time

just give me umbral forma!

My guess is that is exactly what they will do if they add more umbral mods, make it so you can get the full bonus from running any three, but you won't get any bonus running a fourth. 

That said, we really do need more umbral forma. If it needs to timegated to some extent so people aren't just shoving a bunch of umbral forma on every frame fine, but it still far too few of them slowly rationed out over time to really be okay as it is. 

 

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If we were to place 3 or 4 Umbra Forma's it would negate other builds on the same frame because players would not be able to fit other high capacity mods when min-maxing builds. Lots of end game builds don't even require a single Umbral mod. By doing making more Umbral Forma being placed on frames or weapons, this would make those who want any kind of diversity in builds, have to have two of the same frame or weapons.

For example: Skiajati. Other mods are more capable than the two Umbra mod slots. To max the weapon you have to change one or both to min-max the weapon. If not you have to be willing to reduce the build with negative mod capacity on top of the Umbra polarities.

 

Edited by kwlingo
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Not really entirely against better redirection but this is still a no because you know the reason why. Hildryn

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no reason adding any more further with shields unless DE release warframe riven mods as in frame riven mods then why da fug not because they already broke the wall, why not add stuff while we are at it then it be top tier request by the players demand.  Right now it is not needed because the fact we aren't reaching or facing lvl 250 enemies and rank would be high just now for frames and slots to be ready against thous guys.

2 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Better yet, what if we had Primed Adaptation?

No, because the regular adaptation is too powerful by itself already and it all depending on base on armor or shield for it just throw out any defense pain striking be and also the game wouldn't be just a game for fun but a laughing stock that wouldn't be room to discuss about it.  For reason why Adaptation mod use to be so good until DE nerf it because it was way too good so it is at 90% full on upgrade so that way no players be dominating the field overly god-like and toxic abuse players.

Edited by ChaoticEdge
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I doubt DE would ever add in any more primed mods like that, IIRC wasn't the last warframe one Primed Rush? seems like we'll get Primed Utility mods, but nothing to affect our EHP or damage in any way.

Edited by (PS4)robotwars7
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1 hour ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

Duh it would be stupid broken besides that's why we hildyren 

Care to explain? Health tanking is by far and away superior to shield tanking.

There are like 4 abilities that replenish shields, and a metric CLEMton of ways to restore health.

And to everyone mentioning Hildryn, whats the issue? You think it would make her OP, or do you think shield tanking is like her unique birthright? Please explain, don't just say "dur Hildryn".

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Primed mods are just 10-rank versions of regular mods. Vitality and Redirection already have 10 ranks so they're basically already "prime".

Umbral on the other hand, works differently.

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12 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said:

Care to explain? Health tanking is by far and away superior to shield tanking.

There are like 4 abilities that replenish shields, and a metric CLEMton of ways to restore health.

And to everyone mentioning Hildryn, whats the issue? You think it would make her OP, or do you think shield tanking is like her unique birthright? Please explain, don't just say "dur Hildryn".

Hildryn eats enemies armor and helly mode is like vauban's 4 without the vortex, hildryn laugh at little men with shield even little men come with big shield.

feel like bad time pull out this old meme when she 1st appeared but why not because she is like

B41395B8E90DF774CF1D713B1646B92B186CDE50

that is why she call thous corpus "little man" cuz she crush their shield like a juice box.  Whatever you do don't give her sparr she crush little men between her strong legs.  As again not going off the topic, Hildryn would have huge amount shield which I believed it would of reach about probably somewhere in 10k of shields and absourbing other enemies shields probably going be base on probably around 15k of shields for Inaros would be like (plz replace "he" with "she)

Spoiler

tenor.gif

This would also make Inaros being jealous of Hildryn which means her shield gating probably going be the one dominate the field a lot I mean THICC a lot.  As for that this mod would be just overkill for any frame who is focus on shields cap increase which harrow could end up about probably 5k-6k of shield including his chain attack, then the other frame (not hildryn in the process) would have probably about in the range 1k-4k of shield just by the mod itself.  For I don't think Hildryn need that great of boost or neither the players need that mod unless shield gating become rendering useless back then.

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Ehhh we’re talking about 75% more base shields compare to normal redirection, the same way a rank 3 umbral vitality gives 75% more base health over normal vitality. It wouldn’t effect overshields at all

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