(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 On 2020-09-28 at 12:09 AM, Tesseract7777 said: People just think Frost is bad because other meta options are now more popular. Seriously, people overthink this. I'm not saying he couldn't use a lil updating like a lot of classic frames, but the exaggerations from the people saying Frost is in a bad place or only for Snowglobe... I mean if there are much better options to be taking that virtually perform the same task he did whilst offering more than frost does than i'm pretty sure that means he's in a bad place. Frost is nothing compared to limbo or Gara. Where as You can make an argument for either Nezha or Rhino. Frost's 1 and 2 are meaningless because his 4 performs the same function but in a wider AoE and basically on demand. His globe is borderline spammed in any content that doesn't die in a sneeze because you can't just set it and forget it like other defense abilities. The one reason to take it back in the day was because you could cover multiple points in a small map of some modes. But Since Vauban was reworked he can do the same thing but offer more to the team. Bad doesn't mean non functional. But Frost is severely lacking compared to his competitiors. And sorely needs to be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 On 2020-09-29 at 1:24 AM, (XB1)Knight Raime said: I mean if there are much better options to be taking that virtually perform the same task he did whilst offering more than frost does than i'm pretty sure that means he's in a bad place. Frost is nothing compared to limbo or Gara. Where as You can make an argument for either Nezha or Rhino. Frost's 1 and 2 are meaningless because his 4 performs the same function but in a wider AoE and basically on demand. His globe is borderline spammed in any content that doesn't die in a sneeze because you can't just set it and forget it like other defense abilities. The one reason to take it back in the day was because you could cover multiple points in a small map of some modes. But Since Vauban was reworked he can do the same thing but offer more to the team. Bad doesn't mean non functional. But Frost is severely lacking compared to his competitiors. And sorely needs to be updated. I guess it depends to me on your definition of "in a bad place". My personal definition is not quite the same as yours. I tend to consider frames more on their own, as opposed to how they compare to others. So my personal defintions so you understand where I am coming from, since my previous post was short: 1) Do they have any kind of specific content they are meant for/good at? 2) Are they still capable of handling that type of content at high level missions? 3) Can they get through other mission types if needed if you really want to play that theme right now? To me, Frost can still meet those criterion, even if Limbo and others are now objectively better at defending areas in static missions/parts of the mission. He can handle Steel Path solo, with his ability to defend objectives, strip armor and easily apply cc. Of course you are right that his 1 and 2 could use some more robustness to them... they don't do a lot. His 1 is mainly used for managing snowglobes. His 2 was offered as a Helminth and I know no one that uses it. He could use some updating like a lot of older frames that feel kind of... basic, at this point in the game. I feel similarly about Ash. He could use some updating, and a lot of his abilities feel really basic at this point in the game, but he can still handle high level content fine, has specific types of content he is good at, and can still do well at those types of content as well as at least manage okay at any content the game has to offer. However, I admit that makes a pretty high bar for being truly in a bad place, as most frames have at least something they are good at, and can handle high level content even if they could use a lot of tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarsyphon Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 The main reason frost needs a rework is that he was originally designed in a very different game. One with allot more CC, removable abilities and less frames. His abilities dont help with most objective There are frames with very similair and simply better abilities e.g limbo His abilities are very simple and lack the nuance of newer abilites He isnt so bad that he couldnt fit in the game. If for example there was a clear progression in frames and he was something you were meant to use for a while and grow out of that would be fine. However I think DE intends for all of the frames to be ever green in which case I dont think he stacks up. HEre is a real hot take though. I dont think all frames need to be reworked. I think some frames particularly star chart ones which you get particularly early could instead just have allot more augments than the other frames and or have different numbers of slots. I get its probably a UI thing for why they don't but I think they'll find it impossible to try and balance all the frames through pure ability tweaking and asymmetry in these areas could open new avenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 2020-10-01 at 1:42 PM, Tesseract7777 said: I guess it depends to me on your definition of "in a bad place". My personal definition is not quite the same as yours. I tend to consider frames more on their own, as opposed to how they compare to others. So my personal defintions so you understand where I am coming from, since my previous post was short: 1) Do they have any kind of specific content they are meant for/good at? 2) Are they still capable of handling that type of content at high level missions? 3) Can they get through other mission types if needed if you really want to play that theme right now? I understand. I do not follow the "meta" as it were super closely. Meaning i'll take something over another thing if I prefer it's play style over the current best even if there's a wide gap between the two. Like pre Nezha rework I always took him over Rhino just because I valued speed over insane tank values. I'd take Ivara and go slow in spy vaults even if Limbo was faster. etc. I do not think Frost lacks value. I just think he doesn't offer anything unique gameplay wise which makes it difficult to choose him over other bunker making Frames. I really enjoy the frost/freeze theme but when it doesn't amount to much interesting gameplay wise it's hard to argue taking him when I can just be lazy with Gara. On 2020-10-01 at 1:42 PM, Tesseract7777 said: To me, Frost can still meet those criterion, even if Limbo and others are now objectively better at defending areas in static missions/parts of the mission. He can handle Steel Path solo, with his ability to defend objectives, strip armor and easily apply cc. Of course you are right that his 1 and 2 could use some more robustness to them... they don't do a lot. His 1 is mainly used for managing snowglobes. His 2 was offered as a Helminth and I know no one that uses it. He could use some updating like a lot of older frames that feel kind of... basic, at this point in the game. I feel similarly about Ash. He could use some updating, and a lot of his abilities feel really basic at this point in the game, but he can still handle high level content fine, has specific types of content he is good at, and can still do well at those types of content as well as at least manage okay at any content the game has to offer. However, I admit that makes a pretty high bar for being truly in a bad place, as most frames have at least something they are good at, and can handle high level content even if they could use a lot of tweaking. Yes as I said in the end of my initial response. I'm not saying Frost can't do content. All frames can. It's just hard to find a reason to play him when he's out done statistically and gameplay wise he's rather dated. But we all have or bias. I still prefer taking Valkyr over excalibur or Baruuk when I want to exalted melee things even though both are better than her at that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mofojokers Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 2020-10-02 at 7:11 PM, Solarsyphon said: The main reason frost needs a rework is that he was originally designed in a very different game. One with allot more CC, removable abilities and less frames. His abilities dont help with most objective There are frames with very similair and simply better abilities e.g limbo His abilities are very simple and lack the nuance of newer abilites He isnt so bad that he couldnt fit in the game. If for example there was a clear progression in frames and he was something you were meant to use for a while and grow out of that would be fine. However I think DE intends for all of the frames to be ever green in which case I dont think he stacks up. HEre is a real hot take though. I dont think all frames need to be reworked. I think some frames particularly star chart ones which you get particularly early could instead just have allot more augments than the other frames and or have different numbers of slots. I get its probably a UI thing for why they don't but I think they'll find it impossible to try and balance all the frames through pure ability tweaking and asymmetry in these areas could open new avenues. This is true he was designed with Warframe of old the game no longer exists. He doesn't fit well these days and it's the main reason he requires the love above all others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thegarada Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 As Alec V says: “relic of the bygone era.” His 3&4 are good, but the rest is terrible. He needs skill 2 that either to either add damage or support. His movement speed need to go to 1. The prime needs the stats to be increased. Having the prime with just an extra 25 base shield is extremely poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Mofojokers Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 2020-10-05 at 7:49 AM, (PS4)thegarada said: As Alec V says: “relic of the bygone era.” His 3&4 are good, but the rest is terrible. He needs skill 2 that either to either add damage or support. His movement speed need to go to 1. The prime needs the stats to be increased. Having the prime with just an extra 25 base shield is extremely poor. A prime of a bygone era brother i would hope any rework would also buff his prime stats up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 On 2020-09-26 at 5:23 AM, AlphaPHENIX said: Why do I feel like the only pearson who likes Ice Wave. Idk why you do. A cone slow for a few seconds costing 50 energy If you like to just play frost to clear low level trash i could understand, but if you wanted frost abilities to stay viable well off into sp content (even just sortie content) ice wave is pitiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMostFrench Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Frost abilities definitely need some work. IMO he should be better at locking enemies down with cold abilities, because right now he is more like 'Slightly Chilly Guy' as opposed to 'Freezing Death Monster'. His 4 is useful with the armour stripping, and his 1 has its moments since it can freeze enemies solid at any level, but the 2 is pretty useless and Snow Globe needs the right build to be truly useful. Frost is, generally speaking, the snowglobe baby sitter or the avalanche spammer. Read suggestions: Spoiler Freeze: Definitely useful but a bit slow to cast. Newer frames get more mileage with tap and hold to cast abilities. Tap to do a normal, targeted ice blast. Hold to do an ice slam on the ground that can freeze several enemies in a small radius. Ice Wave: Needs to be way more useful, a meaningful aoe ability that can control pathways while doing damage over time. The ice crystals remain in place after casting and do cold damage to enemies that walk over them. Ice Wave Impedance augment gives a small chance to freeze enemies caught in the crystals instead of just slowing them down. Frost can cast an ice blast on the ice wave crystals to blow them up for extra damage; a 2-1 combo. The ice explosion knocks enemies over. Casting Ice Wave at a snow globe from the outside covers the snow globes with icy spikes (and maybe gives it extra health). Now any enemy that gets close to the wall takes damage when they attack it. If Frost uses his 1 to blow up a Snow Globe after casting Ice Wave on it (a 'spiky snow globe'), it fires the ice spikes out at enemies doing puncture and cold damage, with a chance to pin enemies down. This turns snow globes into a bomb weapon, so that it might be worth trying to blow one up instead of just letting it get killed. Snow Globe: It's definitely an important ability but there are things that could be done to make it more useful. As comments here say it is a product of a different time where the game was different, and other frames that do the same job better didn't exist. I have a couple of different ideas. ( SUGGESTION ONE - ICE HOUSE ) Control the size of a snow globe up to the maximum allowed by your ability range by holding cast to charge for a larger snow globe, or continue holding to shrink it again. A preview of the globe is shown before you release the button. This way you don't need to worry about your build having too much range, which is a common issue that makes snow globe suffer. Enemies inside the snow globe radius when it is cast are just frozen solid for a long time (like 2x or 3x power duration), and don't get pushed out to the edges. Enemies who are immune to being frozen/immune to warframe abilities will get pushed outside, however. The ability to construct a complex snow globe of up to four parts by letting your next cast connect to the previous snow globe, depending on distance. You can regenerate the health of the entire structure by recasting the ability when you're inside any part of it. Adding to the structure gives the entire structure brief invulnerability. You can create a variety of shapes that take advantage of casting it four times, and it will always have the health of four globes as long as they are all connected. Top down view: Red is enemies, black is Frost, Blue is edges of the snow globe structure. Even though Frost is fighting enemies at one end, he can still repair the damage done by enemies at the other side by recasting snow globe. This example could cover a space between two excavation objectives, making Frost a very effective defensive frame. He is no longer trapped inside just one snow globe, and has more freedom to move around an ice house that he has designed and fortified with his abilities. ( SUGGESTION TWO - ICE SHIELD ) Some people feel that Frost should be able to pick up his snow globe and carry it around, like how Volt carries his shield. This isn't a terrible idea IMO, and sort of crosses a boundary between Volt and Rhino - Imagine that Frost puts down a Snow globe, then it absorbs between 10k- 20k damage. Next, Frost can pick it up and absorb that as a damage shield. Now he can put down another Snow globe to protect the location. It would be useful in missions with lots of movement, because normally he is leaving his snow globes behind, and if it still has 80% health left then it has mostly gone to waste. ( SUGGESTION THREE - TINY SNOW GLOBE GRENADE ) Vauban has Bastille which can easily control a bunch of enemies, it also does damage over time depending on how you build him. Frost could have something similar with a new type of Snow Globe which works more like a grenade - When it lands, the Globe explodes outwards until it reaches the size determined by your power radius. Enemies caught inside the explosion are frozen solid and start taking cold damage. If there is more than one Frost on the team they can stack different sized snow globes inside each other. Throwing more grenades at an existing snow globe heals it and makes it stronger, so you don't actually have to be standing inside the globe to protect it. This gives Frost better freedom of movement. He can be fighting some threat, quickly turn around and throw a few grenades at the snow globe, then go back to fighting something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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