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Will rhino roar get nerfed? What other abilities are worth using?


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8 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

The damage buff from Roar is rarely needed. There are many more interesting and useful abilities to choose from. 

I've been using Breach Surge, Ensnare, Pillage, Shooting Gallery, Larva, Resonator, Condemn, Spectrorage, Rest & Rage and Silence on many frames. 

Shooting Gallery with the augment is 2 forms of cc in one ability. You get disarm and and a blind. The blind procs off your kills so enemies either have no guns are blind or both. 

Spectrorage seems like a trash ability, but when you use the augment and Arcane Eruption you get cc from an aoe blast and near endless energy. This works especially well on enemies like Mag and Khora that can group a lot of enemies close together. 

Resonator draws all aggro off your frame and you are free to do what ever you want. You might as well be invis if you put this ability on your frame. 

There are abilities that have a unique synergy on specific frames. Thermal Sunder on Ember is a good example of that. Since pretty much every enemy on you screen is on fire you can use Thermal Sunder to pull enemies towards your frame. Or you can cast Thermal Sunder twice and freeze enemies. You now have a hybrid fire/ice build. 

There are so many good abilities to choose from and the "obvious" choice to just throw more damage on a frame is pointless when we already overkill most enemies we encounter. It's also just a boring. You might think that there is literally no point to the Helminth System but, I've never had as much fun playing Warframe as I've had in the last month. 

 

If they ever nerf resonator subsume it’d be hilarious, being that it’s the least powerful Octavia ability.

Shes the S-tier frame that is seldom used by the masses, and I don’t know why.

I guess as long as she is our little secret, she is safe.

Edited by Hokibukisa
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9 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I've replaced a number of frames' useless abilities with master's summons, So nice not having to rez my pet if it goes down. Just press the button and summon it up all healed to full. (this won't work if the pet is already dead, tho. I wish it would!)

glad you mentioned this actually, been wondering about what that ability can do and whether it could revive dead pets. a shame, because I'd use it quite a lot then.

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I'm using eclipse pretty much on all my fave frames, it is easily better than any redundant ability on any frame.

Defy is pretty good for survivability, borderline op on already tanky frames.

Warcry is pretty good on Inaros, or other frames who have high armor and use melee alot. 

I actually made use of Chroma's elemental ward. Can get Inaros to 10k hp or above. Definitely on the fun side.

Ember's armor debuff is good as well, especially on nukers.

Haven't tried Rhino buff. Honestly it just feels too one dimensional and not fun.

Edited by White_Matter
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12 hours ago, redkunaz said:

You see, there are many abilities to subsume, but they just aren't... worth it.

laughs in ensnare

If they nerf more roar, I'll be the first one to laugh at yall who think roar is the only ability that's "worth"

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Roar is a wasted ability in the system and I hope it gets gutted or swapped out just so people drop their fetish for it already and actually look at other options.

There are plenty of great abilities in the system depending on what you want to add onto a frame's kit.

Ensnare or Larva make killing enemies far easier than Roar ever could and their effects are well worth farming Khora/Nidus again. Pillage or Condemn for survivability through shield gating or one of the several healing abilities for sustain. Silence or Rest/Rage to allow stealth power farming on any frame. And Breach Surge or Tesla (augmented) if you want to strap a damaging ability onto a frame.

Really the only truly "bad" abilities in the system are Decoy and Airburst. Everything else can be used to supplement a frames kit, make up for their shortcomings, or fulfill some niche application/synergy with specific frames. While something like Roar is technically not bad as damage is damage but damage is the absolute last thing anyone needs making it only useful if one is intentionally using the absolute worst weapons or choosing to not use weapon mods.

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4 hours ago, Hokibukisa said:

Shes the S-tier frame that is seldom used by the masses, and I don’t know why.

It’s because she’s not fun to play. I think most people know how good she is, but she’s just boring.

Obviously fun is subjective, but it seems to be a popular opinion among the community that she’s just not very fun.

Edited by (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face
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8 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I totally forgot about shooting gallery. That's so incredibly OP.....the whole reason people die so much is from the hail of gunfire from corpus and grineer. I used to do endurance mot runs with her solely for SG. Wow I gotta farm mesa

Mesa can be a decent endurance frame if she is built for shooting gallery. I replaced Peacmaker with Ensnare and took her on a solo Mot to lvl 5k+ the other day.  I replaced Peacmaker because damage falls off on higher level enemies and it has no initial energy drain so it can't be used to reset your shield gate. Her 2 and 3 are duration based and can't be recast, so those won't work either. Her 1 is a bit weird when used to reset shield gate because only the initial cast drains energy and not the activation of the ability. You just have to get in the habit of double tapping 1 for shields.

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20小时前 , redkunaz 说:

Since DE tends to nerf whats used by people instead of buffing what isn't used (under performing) , how do you think rhinos roar  will get nerfed?

Am i safe to sacrifice the rhino for it?

You see, there are many abilities to subsume, but they just aren't... worth it.

Don't get me wrong some of them like khoras cage are cool, but... do you know how long it takes to grind khora, nidus or certain frames? rhino's roar is boring in the end of the day, but it just gives you damage, you don't need to overthink stuff.

Tbh i think the abilities we have are lackluster and we should get 1 more from each frame.

If they do nerf the ones that are used, than there's really no point to the system. because most abilities there just aren't worth using.

 

I won't be surprised if they decided to nerf rhino roar.

Anyway, what I am thinking is, I don't really think CC is a thing when you can commit mass genocide to enemies. Also a lot of people picked roar, warcry or smite is because their corresponding frames are easily available. Yes they are useful, but don't you think resonator or shooting gallery are also useful? Also yes right?

"If every abilities are useful, what is the point of the helminth system?" what lol

To me its an unfunny joke at all, people want to replace Mesa 1 or Inaros 3 because those abilities are genuinely useless. Like seriously? YOU GUYS DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF HOW USELESS THESE ABILITIES ARE? And you are acting surprised?

Even though roar is nerfed to like 2%, I bet there will still be a lot of people out there still replacing mesa's 1 with roar, since 2% OF EXTRA DAMAGE IS STILL BETTER THAN 3000 RAW F**KING DAMAGE.

And side note, at least 50% of abilities (available from helminth) are useless, and right now I am laughing at decoy, terrify, mind control and desiccation. The point here is, it isn't roar or smite infusion or warcry being op, but it is other god-given abilities are useless as heck, and DE is acting surprised because of people picking actual useful abilities.

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5 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

I won't be surprised if they decided to nerf rhino roar.

Anyway, what I am thinking is, I don't really think CC is a thing when you can commit mass genocide to enemies. Also a lot of people picked roar, warcry or smite is because their corresponding frames are easily available. Yes they are useful, but don't you think resonator or shooting gallery are also useful? Also yes right?

"If every abilities are useful, what is the point of the helminth system?" what lol

To me its an unfunny joke at all, people want to replace Mesa 1 or Inaros 3 because those abilities are genuinely useless. Like seriously? YOU GUYS DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF HOW USELESS THESE ABILITIES ARE? And you are acting surprised?

Even though roar is nerfed to like 2%, I bet there will still be a lot of people out there still replacing mesa's 1 with roar, since 2% OF EXTRA DAMAGE IS STILL BETTER THAN 3000 RAW F**KING DAMAGE.

And side note, at least 50% of abilities (available from helminth) are useless, and right now I am laughing at decoy, terrify, mind control and desiccation. The point here is, it isn't roar or smite infusion or warcry being op, but it is other god-given abilities are useless as heck, and DE is acting surprised because of people picking actual useful abilities.

Dude you gotta reduce the sodium content in your diet. Excessive salt in your system can lead to dementia and you are definitely showing signs of it at this point. 

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I specifically plastered Roar on Mesa for the purpose of lich hunting and disruptions. Exactly the damage kick I was missing for them. Everywhere else? I never even needed subsumed abilities to begin with. Especially not with those bile costs. I can get my CC and sustain from operator well enough, thank you very much.

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On 2020-09-26 at 4:49 AM, redkunaz said:

Since DE tends to nerf whats used by people instead of buffing what isn't used (under performing) , how do you think rhinos roar  will get nerfed?

Am i safe to sacrifice the rhino for it?

You see, there are many abilities to subsume, but they just aren't... worth it.

Don't get me wrong some of them like khoras cage are cool, but... do you know how long it takes to grind khora, nidus or certain frames? rhino's roar is boring in the end of the day, but it just gives you damage, you don't need to overthink stuff.

Tbh i think the abilities we have are lackluster and we should get 1 more from each frame.

If they do nerf the ones that are used, than there's really no point to the system. because most abilities there just aren't worth using.

 

if your talking about the helminth system then yes it did got nerf before it came out but if you use strength build it will increase small amount dmg but assuming aside if your talking about the main frame that is rhino then No because they nerf his roar too many time in the past.  It isn't meant for other frame to actually take it in and be ok, it was actually meant for frames who need the self buffing dmg that focus on weapons and never attended apply other frame because on roar is only focus on weapons never the abilities.  In other words, they will not nerf this and they nerf it no good reason without testing it LIKE LAST TIME it only get players question more and putting them into worst then before issues they had.  The nerf isn't always necessaries because DE worried the "META" which old news about the Bramma overkill nerf which 1 nerf was fine but nerfing 2 time isn't ok which Bramma's cluster bomb nerf was fine but nerfing bramma's ammo to be "oh you gotta be careful with your shot" that is just stupid for I would of un-nerf the ammo counter because they being dolt during that time until protea arrived with infinite ammo so basically they are being hypocrite at that point which forgot that we got ammo preserve gadget for I made their point render-ly useless thinking everyone will "carefully" making the dev cry probably that point which do apologized making you cry because this is your own good rethink your nerfing will cause bad habit players resurface.

Anyway reducing my small block of text, not lots of frame is not going get nerf, the only thing they shouldn't done was limbo's banish abilities.  Do you know how cruel (lol) how much we the players did to the noobs (lol) for good gosh thx DE making our day banish the noobs on that day for not to progress any fun yet we the players who got to use it was using it too much 💩 and giggles still laughing off our bottom donkey hat off.  Clap for DE's greatest sins.

Edited by ChaoticEdge
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1小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Dude you gotta reduce the sodium content in your diet. Excessive salt in your system can lead to dementia and you are definitely showing signs of it at this point. 

I like how people referring what I said to "sodium content" or "salty" or aggressive. If something I said is wrong then correct me.

It pisses me off when they added something which EVEN themselves think it will be meta then acting surprised and say oH tHiS aBiLItiY iS pOpuLAr LeTs NerF iT aNd tHe fRaME pEopLE iNjeCTed ThiS oN. Stop overdefending. Come on.

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It is worth noting that the version of Roar available from Helminth is already significantly nerfed compared to the original frame's, down to 60% of its original damage boost. Even so, it's the most popular ability, simply because the selection isn't otherwise amazing. If it were nerfed any further, another damage boost would be likely to take its place, as there are several of those in Helminth's selection. Any further nerfs after that would likely just be a race to the bottom until none of the resulting options end up being especially appealing, which may not be ideal in an environment where players are already not happy with having their stuff nerfed. I'd say the OP is safe to sacrifice Rhino, especially as it's an easy frame to farm, and beyond that there would likely be a need for an overhaul to both the Helminth system and the entire design philosophy behind abilities in Warframe in order for ability infusion to truly offer the freedom of choice and diversity of customization it originally intended.

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2 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

I like how people referring what I said to "sodium content" or "salty" or aggressive. If something I said is wrong then correct me.

It pisses me off when they added something which EVEN themselves think it will be meta then acting surprised and say oH tHiS aBiLItiY iS pOpuLAr LeTs NerF iT aNd tHe fRaME pEopLE iNjeCTed ThiS oN. Stop overdefending. Come on.

I'm pretty sure that was done several times over before you posted, but fine. 

9 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

I won't be surprised if they decided to nerf rhino roar.

It was prenerfed before the update even hit. 

Quote

Anyway, what I am thinking is, I don't really think CC is a thing when you can commit mass genocide to enemies. Also a lot of people picked roar, warcry or smite is because their corresponding frames are easily available. Yes they are useful, but don't you think resonator or shooting gallery are also useful? Also yes right?

Resonator maybe, but realistically just about every frame can see benefits from roar. Maybe negative power strength builds are an exception. 

Quote

"If every abilities are useful, what is the point of the helminth system?" what lol

To me its an unfunny joke at all, people want to replace Mesa 1 or Inaros 3 because those abilities are genuinely useless. Like seriously? YOU GUYS DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF HOW USELESS THESE ABILITIES ARE? And you are acting surprised?

Everyone who doesn't really get how Inaros abilities synergise with one another whine about his 3 for some reason. 

Quote

Even though roar is nerfed to like 2%, I bet there will still be a lot of people out there still replacing mesa's 1 with roar, since 2% OF EXTRA DAMAGE IS STILL BETTER THAN 3000 RAW F**KING DAMAGE.

See the first point. 

Quote

And side note, at least 50% of abilities (available from helminth) are useless, and right now I am laughing at decoy, terrify, mind control and desiccation. The point here is, it isn't roar or smite infusion or warcry being op, but it is other god-given abilities are useless as heck, and DE is acting surprised because of people picking actual useful abilities.

Pure salt. Based on not understanding the point of the system you are talking about. The point isn't to create ever more powerful combinations. It's to allow us to create new combinations, and many of them are going to be pretty niche combinations. That means that calling them useless is just a way to say "unless someone on YouTube tells me how to use this, I will consider it useless, but I will absolutely call it god-tier once they spoon feed it to me". 🤷‍♂️

 

So, you plan to reduce the amount of salt you consume now, or what? 

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On 2020-09-26 at 10:49 AM, redkunaz said:

If they do nerf the ones that are used, than there's really no point to the system. because most abilities there just aren't worth using.

Hard disagree, while there are a few that have very little to recomend them the vast majority are good is some context or another. And if I'm being honest, the only warframes I put Roar on aren't really getting used. I only have 3 more Warframes to re-build and I'll had a Helminth dupe of them all, I don't think any of them are a waste

I'm currently getting a lot of user of Pillage, Ensnare, Breach Surge, Dispensary, Smite, Defy, Blood Altar, Warcry and I've barely scratched the surface

Edited by SilentMobius
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On 2020-09-26 at 9:53 PM, Hokibukisa said:

If they ever nerf resonator subsume it’d be hilarious, being that it’s the least powerful Octavia ability.

Shes the S-tier frame that is seldom used by the masses, and I don’t know why.

I guess as long as she is our little secret, she is safe.

i dont think thats ever a secret but moreso majortity of players dont use her much and represent octavia's infinite scaling onto the usage sheets , they prolly know but dont bother because of that .

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11小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

It was prenerfed before the update even hit. 

So is there a rule mentioning something like "You can't nerf the same thing twice"? No right, see what they do to the kuva bramma and a lot of rivens (not to mention where is lecta riven buff but its off topic whatever)

11小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Resonator maybe, but realistically just about every frame can see benefits from roar. Maybe negative power strength builds are an exception. 

Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Thermal Sunder. Maybe negative strength and range builds are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Dispensary. Maybe negative duration builds are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Pillage. Maybe frames with no shields are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Nourish. Maybe negative strength builds are an exception.

Realistically every frames can see benefits when one of their useless ability are replaced. maybe some of the abilities I mentioned above are better than roar, but why the figure shows that there are more people choosing Roar over Nourish or some other more useful abilities? That time it took me a month to grind Gauss because of insane RNG unluckiness.

11小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Everyone who doesn't really get how Inaros abilities synergise with one another whine about his 3 for some reason. 

Whatever, if you are putting duration and range mods just for his 3 (because -10 energy per second) then no one is stopping you. There are a lot of frames (and shooting gallery) which could do CC better.

11小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Pure salt. Based on not understanding the point of the system you are talking about. The point isn't to create ever more powerful combinations. It's to allow us to create new combinations, and many of them are going to be pretty niche combinations. That means that calling them useless is just a way to say "unless someone on YouTube tells me how to use this, I will consider it useless, but I will absolutely call it god-tier once they spoon feed it to me".

First stuff I don't even watch warframe youtubers that often. At least I didn't rant about stuff like condemn or Perspicacity because they are useful at some point, but terrify and mind control? How can your abilities synergize with them lol
I understand the helminth system is not solely for mass genocides, but at some point they are putting actual useless abilities which can't even do CC or stuff like that. Even Ice Wave from Frost can slow down enemies with its augment, but what s**t you do with mind control?

They are making their game a mass genocide simulator, so don't blame the players for going for damage or ttk

Not to even mention Terrify doesn't even terrify all enemies near you

Stop adding sugar or you are getting diabetes, why can't people accept the fact that DE is doing something that is not right

Edited by ghoti0315
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6 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

So is there a rule mentioning something like "You can't nerf the same thing twice"? No right, see what they do to the kuva bramma and a lot of rivens (not to mention where is lecta riven buff but its off topic whatever)

Yeah there's that "you're overdoing the sodium intake" thing again. I'm wondering if you truly grasp how rivens work and why the disposition scales the way it does. But hey, I'm not surprised, YouTubers don't get views for staying calm and rational. 

6 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Thermal Sunder. Maybe negative strength and range builds are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Dispensary. Maybe negative duration builds are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Pillage. Maybe frames with no shields are an exception.
Realistically just about every frame can see benefits from Nourish. Maybe negative strength builds are an exception.

Realistically every frames can see benefits when one of their useless ability are replaced. maybe some of the abilities I mentioned above are better than roar, but why the figure shows that there are more people choosing Roar over Nourish or some other more useful abilities? That time it took me a month to grind Gauss because of insane RNG unluckiness.

Are you not seeing a fair number of pillages being added? With nourish I'm thinking it has to do with fact that we don't have feast, and only get nourish strike. I'm sure that you can find a YouTube video to explain Grendel's ability synergies to you. Dispensary is nice and all but a lot of the time it just isn't needed with current builds. You'd have to rework a lot of them to make it so that you can really benefit from it. But hey if you're really that keen for losing energy for a health top up, and some ammo, feel free to use that instead of the pizzas, you'd probably save on materials.... In the long run? Thermal sunder is cool, or hot, whichever one you want to go with. 

7 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

Whatever, if you are putting duration and range mods just for his 3 (because -10 energy per second) then no one is stopping you. There are a lot of frames (and shooting gallery) which could do CC better.

Why would I need to do this? Who turns on his 3 if they aren't already standing on an enemy affected by his 2? Oh right, the people who don't get what it does, and are somehow incapable of reading the ability notes on the screen without it being presented by a youtuber. So... Uh.... carry on, I guess?

7 hours ago, ghoti0315 said:

First stuff I don't even watch warframe youtubers that often. At least I didn't rant about stuff like condemn or Perspicacity because they are useful at some point, but terrify and mind control? How can your abilities synergize with them lol
I understand the helminth system is not solely for mass genocides, but at some point they are putting actual useless abilities which can't even do CC or stuff like that. Even Ice Wave from Frost can slow down enemies with its augment, but what s**t you do with mind control?

They are making their game a mass genocide simulator, so don't blame the players for going for damage or ttk

Not to even mention Terrify doesn't even terrify all enemies near you

Stop adding sugar or you are getting diabetes, why can't people accept the fact that DE is doing something that is not right

First stuff, well then you are getting it second or third hand from people who do. How you find a way to use the ability you add is up to you. Why you would want to use it, is also probably a personal thing, tied to some niche that you noticed. You might want to be able to pick the biggest meanest enemy in the room and turn them into your murder puppet, especially if they're dealing 6x normal damage to their former friends. But again that's for you to decide. 

As for terrify, casting shadows leaves you pretty vulnerable for the duration, terrify fixes that, making you more likely to survive the act. It's also important on Nekros for those "oh crap" moments in case you died and lost the 20 enemies in your buffer AND your melee bonuses, at higher levels. Can you make use of that for other frames? Depends entirely on how you play, and what you are trying to do, doesn't it? Maybe you are generally pretty lazy and want an easy time on mobile defense, or interception so you can afk and watch more YouTube? Who knows? It's all up to you, Tenno. Or maybe up to whoever spoon feeds you all that salt?

 

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1小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Are you not seeing a fair number of pillages being added? With nourish I'm thinking it has to do with fact that we don't have feast, and only get nourish strike. I'm sure that you can find a YouTube video to explain Grendel's ability synergies to you. Dispensary is nice and all but a lot of the time it just isn't needed with current builds. You'd have to rework a lot of them to make it so that you can really benefit from it. But hey if you're really that keen for losing energy for a health top up, and some ammo, feel free to use that instead of the pizzas, you'd probably save on materials.... In the long run? Thermal sunder is cool, or hot, whichever one you want to go with. 

Nope lol, from figures I see even Atlas ability is more used than Pillage. Yeah Nourish Strike is good I didn't even deny that, Dispensary is just useful if you don't want to pop pizza and other abilities could do whatever thing you can come up with. Also it gives energy too, so it isn't an energy loss, duh

The thing I want to say is that they are looking at figures which isn't even a month old, the helminth system is new and they literally pissed off after seeing roar and stuff like empower being used by the vast majority. This actually shows they "learn" or "know" what their game is just by looking at inaccurate figures. Grendel needs arbitration which doesn't even spawn enough enemies if you do it solo (at least for me, one time I did a grineer survival, life support 0% with all capsules opened at 8 mins, thanks spawn rate). Gauss, Harrow and Protea needs insane RNG luck, and Hildryn needs something from Exploiter.

Rhino is just so convenient that it is a by-product from helping new players, and they got pissed off because people subsume it. Don't even try to deny it or overdefend them for this.

1小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

Why would I need to do this? Who turns on his 3 if they aren't already standing on an enemy affected by his 2? Oh right, the people who don't get what it does, and are somehow incapable of reading the ability notes on the screen without it being presented by a youtuber. So... Uh.... carry on, I guess?

Just tried what you said myself, the ability itself still suck because high energy consumption, close file
Also if the ability itself suck then Youtubers most likely don't make videos around it, pretty sure you don't understand that

1小时前 , (PS4)guzmantt1977 说:

As for terrify, casting shadows leaves you pretty vulnerable for the duration, terrify fixes that, making you more likely to survive the act. It's also important on Nekros for those "oh crap" moments in case you died and lost the 20 enemies in your buffer AND your melee bonuses, at higher levels. Can you make use of that for other frames? Depends entirely on how you play, and what you are trying to do, doesn't it? Maybe you are generally pretty lazy and want an easy time on mobile defense, or interception so you can afk and watch more YouTube? Who knows? It's all up to you, Tenno. Or maybe up to whoever spoon feeds you all that salt?

A lot of abilities like shooting gallery and Radial Blind can do stuff better than Terrify in terms of its objective you mentioned. And when you are building nekros based on its 4 then most likely you will put a casting speed mod and its augment so that you won't die really easily.

Also don't call others salty or "being spoon-fed" just because they think that certain abilities or warframes or features are bad, people have their own opinions and you have to admit that DE is doing something that clearly isn't beneficial to the game in some cases.
At this point you are just overdefending and is actually equivalent to saying something like "MesA BaLLiStIC bAttErY iS gOoD yOU jUsT dOnT kNOw hOw tO uSE iT". Get it?

 

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