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Time gated Prime mods are dumb


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4 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

who logs in 200 days in a row?

*Awkwardly raises hand*

I mean, I've been playing since 2013, and the only days I've not logged in for were when I was on holiday or otherwise cut off from the internet.

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Anyone who gives a rip about respectable game design should care.

What respectable game design needs you to wait 3 years for some items something that's not cosmetic? Please elaborate.

Edited by Fukoshi
for some items for something that's not cosmetic?
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3 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

200 days (Logged in) is pretty quick? Last time I checked, that's nearly 2/3 year, who logs in 200 days in a row? So it's more like a full year, for 1 single mod, that's really usefull. What other game does this? Why is it good that you have to wait 1 year for it? Why are log in rewards not only cosmetics(or caches) like in every good MMO out there(alright, there are mounts, but one could argue they are just "skins" as well)?

You don't have to log in a row. In the grand scheme of things 200 days really isn't a lot. It's like you started playing, heard of these mods, and decided you needed them ASAP.

There are a few more alternative options to these mods that I haven't listed such as arcanes and rivens. Some warframe abilities will even give you the boost you need without the mod.

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9 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

Like, yes, I pushed the goalpost, because I realized they are really not 100% necessary, so I changed my opinion, what's bad about it? Should I just stick to it forever for no reason, like those dudes with the "I had it hard, you should have it hard" attitude? I changed the post, so it says so in the start, I realized my bad in there. But the main issue, the Time Gating is still there. And I still don't see any actual arguments highlighting the bad of it, like they did with the "necessity" part. I can change, they should be able to as well.

The projecting on others is what I was referring to as the antagonizing part. You are making yourself look bad and also making them against your position.
The incoherence of your OP now also makes it look like a jumbled mess and puts you in an even worse position to articulate your point because it is all over the place now.
It being ill thought out and poorly presented originally also would have made it an easy target to gloss over.

 

4 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

Like, Primed Fever Strike, Primed Continuity, or every single Primed mod, why are those not time gated then? Why should these be?

Primed fever strike, nearly double the effect of a normal 90% status mod. Continuity, the highest non penalizing duration boost, primed bane, status effect monsters from the depths of hell.  Almost every primed mod is immensely powerful and of the login rewards, only 1 is even relevant in terms of what it can accomplish and how much it changes the game for some older playstyles. That one it is an exilus warframe mod.

The only ones that even comes close to the effectiveness advantage of the login rewards are primed magazine and reload mods(normally), primed ammo mutation, primed pack leader(which doesn't even provide any benefit at all really), and primed animal instinct. Of those I think animal instinct is even the best one due to it being a raw companion utility mod. And then you have primed shotgun mutation which is useful on maybe 2 weapons?

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8 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

Those weapons are more of a novelty item, and that is a good thing.

I would change the milestones to strictly cosmetic/cache system, maybe some novelty items, like those weapons, because they are way less useful than any mod can be, and more of an item that shows "I logged in a lot of times, I have been here for years".

Primed sure footed is a good enough mod that i dont think you could argue it isnt a major oof that it takes such an absurdly long time to get. 

 

Unfortunately you seem to be coming up against gatekeeping elitists who dont want to lose their "im special" status.

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46 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

In this case, it's not a "want it now", but "I want it behind something other than waiting literal years, make it a really hard challenge, hell make it a 10-30 day grind, I don't care, just put it up for people who want to be able to work towards something, not just stuck waiting for it."

A 30 day grind is absolutely nothing....

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I do not like the OPs attitude from the conversation i have read so far. Throwing tantrums while makings statements like "i do not care" does not help.

But putting power enhancing items (as minor as they may be) behind a login reward concept was never something i liked either.

However people managed to survive and bulldoze the game before , they can survive without these mods even now considering all the power creep that has been added over the years so i dislike the concept but i do not particularly mind it being there.

 

As to why that happens? its not for the sake of players , its for the sake of DE so that players actually keep logging into the game so they can show active player count. Part of the pull strategy.

 

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hace 1 hora, Fukoshi dijo:

Luxury when you can use more than 2-3 meta weapons, without requiring a riven on said weapon?

Luxury when you die for bullS#&$, because you don't have 1000 health/shield restores, or some "necessity" health giving weapon/frame in your team?

 

How is my opinion more valid? Because you guys still didn't specify why it's actually good to need to wait that many days for X mod, just said "this is bad, because I already waited for it, why would some other do not need to?"

If you die to "bullsh*t" that's entirely on you, if you don't know how to mod stuff or don't even want to put the effort to learn how, it's on you, neither veterans nor DE owes sh*t to you just because you want those shiny Primed mods right now, if you can't be arsed to log in the required amount of days then guess what? it's ON YOU.

These mods are not required or needed for any build, they're optional, used to min max stuff when you already have most of what this game has to offer. hell, there are even better alternatives for some (quickening/Berserk instead of Primed Fury, for example) and the regular variants are still there, DE shoudn't change how this works just because your lazy ass can't be bothered to put as much investment in the game as the rest already have, you know, to be honest you just sound like a spoiled brat.

 

Edited by (PS4)xBellikx
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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

A 30 day grind is absolutely nothing....

It is, still something, that can be done with effort, other than waiting, I realize 30 days is a bit(lot) much but I would still be 30 days grind/mod > 200 day waiting/mod

 

Quote

As to why that happens? its not for the sake of players , its for the sake of DE so that players actually keep logging into the game so they can show active player count. Part of the pull strategy.

See? An actual argument, and I can see in to it a bit better, thank you. It does make sense for the need to keep up the playerbase. Could use some other tactics, but I guess after the sadness of the new updates, it would be dumb to change this as well, maybe if warframe will be in a better place there would be time for this as well.

 

While I know, throwing tantrums is stupid I get that, but it just makes me angry, that the majority of comments, are just elitist/trolls who don't want anything to change, and just here to bash on any post they find. I realize, I should have worded this better, came prepared a bit better, but I can also see that I opened a discussion in the worst place possible, seems like the majority of the people in the forums are the cesspit of the warframe community.

Edited by Fukoshi
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2 hours ago, Fukoshi said:

Stuff like Primed Fury, Primed Shred, Primed Sure Footed, are an actual necessity  good QoL improvements, making certain guns/frames viable.

In case the point hasn't been made already,  only one of those mods  is even arguably a game changer in terms of viability..  Shred gets the job done, and a lot of builds don't even bother with the primed version.  And many people will say Quickening is better than Primed Fury.

Primed Sure Footed is the closest, and even then you can get some of the benefit through other mods.  Or by being selective about your weapons or frames.  Or just by being careful.  (I still have never slotted it except for testing. 😉 )

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with your basic point.  I sympathize, and yet I know why DE has chosen to time gate these mods.

Edited by Tiltskillet
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10 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

See? An actual argument, and I can see in to it a bit better, thank you. It does make sense for the need to keep up the playerbase. Could use some other tactics, but I guess after the sadness of the new updates, it would be dumb to change this as well, maybe if warframe will be in a better place there would be time for this as well.

 

While I know, throwing tantrums is stupid I get that, but it just makes me angry, that the majority of comments, are just elitist/trolls who don't want anything to change, and just here to bash on any post they find. I realize, I should have worded this better, came prepared a bit better, but I can also see that I opened a discussion in the worst place possible, seems like the majority of the people in the forums are the cesspit of the warframe community.

One needs to keep calm if one wishes to have a fruitful conversation.

Knowing where to discuss, where to ignore, where to argue and where to agree to disagree and part ways is important - because everyone has the right to express their opinion.

The forums are filled with all kinds of people , just like anywhere else in real life.

Edited by 0_The_F00l
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Interesting thread.

Ignoring all the secondary arguments brought up here Baro is going to continue to be a growing issue as his stock increases, he's going to be another Void Key/Relic dilution issue eventually. Really all he needs is for the total number of items he has on offer to be increased so that his stock rotates more often. Though having his old stock moved out to a new vendor eventually would be a better long term solution.

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20 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

While I know, throwing tantrums is stupid I get that, but it just makes me angry, that the majority of comments, are just elitist/trolls who don't want anything to change, and just here to bash on any post they find. I realize, I should have worded this better, came prepared a bit better, but I can also see that I opened a discussion in the worst place possible, seems like the majority of the people in the forums are the cesspit of the warframe community.

I suggest stepping back a sec. I agree with your overall point. And I think some people have been unecessarily hostile with you from the start, but towards them, and you, it takes two. If someone is really being hostile with their responses and doesn't seem to be discussing in good faith, I don't put them "on ignore" I just discuss with other people. If you feel the tone of the conservation is bothering you, take a break, come back to it later. Everyone is pretty much rehashing the same arguments at this point. 

There are definitely some people being overly elitist about the issue, but there are fair arguments in favor as well (even if I don't personally agree with them), we all have to remember that opinions are unique to everyone we are all going to feel a litle differently about everything. 

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15 minutes ago, trst said:

Interesting thread.

Ignoring all the secondary arguments brought up here Baro is going to continue to be a growing issue as his stock increases, he's going to be another Void Key/Relic dilution issue eventually. Really all he needs is for the total number of items he has on offer to be increased so that his stock rotates more often. Though having his old stock moved out to a new vendor eventually would be a better long term solution.

What they do with Baro is another dumb issue yes, but the only thing that holds it together, is the fact that you can trade all non-cosmetic items, having a the sands of inaros quest with baro, could be an issue, but waiting 2 weeks is not that bad.

My point with this thread was that the over the top time gating is really stupid, I could wait/grind 1-2 months for something like this, but 200 days/1 thing is really excessive. I can't think of multiple games that does this. (Bringing up 1-2 games is not a model that shows it works, keep in mind.)

Before we make the assumption that I do not like having to work years for something, I don't find story quests, or specific missions to require months of work to get to dumb, I like that idea, it's just the fact that these are mods, which are like putting a jewel/materia in your weapon take years to do.

Edited by Fukoshi
something like this
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Baro brought Primed Chamber, so the whole "gotta respect player's time" is just selectively used when it disrespects your own time. When Baro brought Primed Chamber, everyone ganged up against the small minority who had the mod previously because they weren't affected (luxury mod btw). In this thread, I'm seeing the reverse. It's so funny.

The game doesn't respect your time. Energize is easy to get, Riven Mods are indirectly easy to get thanks to Steel Essence and Khora power farming for millions of Kuva, things just get cheapened over time. The only reason login mods are time gated along with weapons are because of the pull tactics to keep players logging in. Respecting players time isn't even on the agenda for 90% of changes DE makes to the game. Just look at how resource economies are balanced and apologies for repeated mistakes that I honestly feel aren't even mistakes anymore.

Login Mods probably won't be readily available unfortunately, and that's just the way it is. 

Edited by Voltage
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22 minutes ago, Fukoshi said:

It is, still something, that can be done with effort, other than waiting, I realize 30 days is a bit(lot) much but I would still be 30 days grind/mod > 200 day waiting/mod

 

See? An actual argument, and I can see in to it a bit better, thank you. It does make sense for the need to keep up the playerbase. Could use some other tactics, but I guess after the sadness of the new updates, it would be dumb to change this as well, maybe if warframe will be in a better place there would be time for this as well.

 

While I know, throwing tantrums is stupid I get that, but it just makes me angry, that the majority of comments, are just elitist/trolls who don't want anything to change, and just here to bash on any post they find. I realize, I should have worded this better, came prepared a bit better, but I can also see that I opened a discussion in the worst place possible, seems like the majority of the people in the forums are the cesspit of the warframe community.

Another actual argument is that the game already caters to casuals, yet you want that final 0.01% because you can't have it and it annoys you.

They nerfed all enemies which is basically an indirect buff to every weapon and frame you own. They've nerfed enemy AI and difficulty repeatedly over time as well. They probably couldn't make the game any easier if they tried. 

Anything you need from those mods and weapons you can get something close with already existing mods. Use regular sure footed accompanied with Power drift if it bothers you that much.

Also, I'm not sure since I wasn't here but have heard this numerous times: The people that have played this game in the beginning basically kept it afloat and probably factor in to why it's still here today. They deserve a little gift for that at least. A hierarchical system based on seniority is normal in basically all facets of life. 

Do you think you deserve to eat from the Seniors menu at your local diner if you're 35? 

They gave you access to the Helminth which is basically potentially better than most login rewards as well.

And only after about a year of gameplay, I basically have everything I need in game: plat, cosmetics, mods, and can kill anything with ease. I honestly haven't even thought about login rewards as I'm already satisfied with what I have in game already. 

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8 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Baro brought Primed Chamber, so the whole "gotta respect player's time" is just selectively used when it disrespects your own time. When Baro brought Primed Chamber, everyone ganged up against the small minority who had the mod previously because they weren't affected (luxury mod btw). In this thread, I'm seeing the reverse. It's so funny.

The game doesn't respect your time. Energize is easy to get, Riven Mods are indirectly easy to get thanks to Steel Essence and Khora power farming for millions of Kuva, things just get cheapened over time. The only reason login mods are time gated along with weapons are because of the pull tactics to keep players logging in. Respecting players time isn't even on the agenda for 90% of changes DE makes to the game. Just look at how resource economies are balanced and apologies for repeated mistakes that I honestly feel aren't even mistakes anymore.

Login Mods probably won't be readily available unfortunately, and that's just the way it is. 

Yes, sadly I realized that DE's pull tactics are above all else, and I can't really do anything about it, a lot of times I just logged in for 3 seconds to get that daily reward, just for getting the Prime mod, so it definitely works making it dumb to change.

But, what if they added an actually Good cosmetic reward in there? There are hundreds of Talented designers out there, TennoGen everything, just make something that really Pops out as "I'm a veteran", Like a "Misa Prime" caliber Syandana, or a beautifull Orbiter, a gorgeous landing craft, I don't see why it have to be mods, I would have gladly wasted away my time just logging in to this for those rewards.

EDIT: And I don't want to lash out and say that the cosmetics we get as of now in login rewards are lackluster, in no way so, but they don't "pop" out like the stuff I mentioned above

Edited by Fukoshi
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I think the time gating is stupid.  Hard to defend it really.

The attitude of some that they had to wait, so therfore so should everyone else is base and selfish.

From de's pov, it keeps players logging in.  I know plenty players who only log in and then log straight back out.  For de's stats though, that counts as an active player.

As the game grows each year, so old grinds need to be reduced in order for newer players to feel like they have a chance of catching up.   Never mind getting rid of time gated log in rewards, I'd totally revamp poe so it could be completed much MUCH quicker by new players.  I dont care that I had to grind it out, I done it when it was relatively new and therefore busy.  Now its a wasteland.   

As new grind is added, old grind needs to be reduced.

Hell, u could give these mods to samaris and make them cost 125k standing each.   That's a fair bit of grind, but at least its a grind you can control and work towards by actually playing the game. 

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3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Baro brought Primed Chamber, so the whole "gotta respect player's time" is just selectively used when it disrespects your own time. When Baro brought Primed Chamber, everyone ganged up against the small minority who had the mod previously because they weren't affected (luxury mod btw). In this thread, I'm seeing the reverse. It's so funny.

The game doesn't respect your time. Energize is easy to get, Riven Mods are indirectly easy to get thanks to Steel Essence and Khora power farming for millions of Kuva, things just get cheapened over time. The only reason login mods are time gated along with weapons are because of the pull tactics to keep players logging in. Respecting players time isn't even on the agenda for 90% of changes DE makes to the game. Just look at how resource economies are balanced and apologies for repeated mistakes that I honestly feel aren't even mistakes anymore.

Login Mods probably won't be readily available unfortunately, and that's just the way it is. 

I don't think you understand what primed chamber really meant. Primed chamber was not an issue of how long it took to get. It was a matter of if you could get it at all. Which for the vast majority of people that answer was a simple no. It was a trophy item that was given out a handful of times beyond the initial batch. It was not something you could earn, it was something so valuable that it caused a serious fomo problem with events which had leaderboards. "was this top reward that had gameplay impacts EVER going to come back?" And people sought after every event that had a leader board since due to how bad it was. There was rampant issues with this and why the past few ones have been very lacking in terms of clan rewards and leaderboards.

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Primed Sure Footed was a massive quality of life improvement for me.

Primed Shred helped some of my weapons, like Battacor for example, tremendously.

I never got Primed Fury because I use Berserker but I suppose it is valuable for low CC weapons.

Now, I'm waiting on Primed Vigor, hoping it would be great on Volt and Mag, especially since there's no Primed/Umbral Redirection.

Personally, I would add all primed mods as login rewards but also give Baro all of them to sell as well. Lastly, I'd enable full trading on all of them too. I believe time gating like this is unnecessary.

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2 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

I don't think you understand what primed chamber really meant. Primed chamber was not an issue of how long it took to get. It was a matter of if you could get it at all. Which for the vast majority of people that answer was a simple no. It was a trophy item that was given out a handful of times beyond the initial batch. It was not something you could earn, it was something so valuable that it caused a serious fomo problem with events which had leaderboards. "was this top reward that had gameplay impacts EVER going to come back?" And people sought after every event that had a leader board since due to how bad it was. There was rampant issues with this and why the past few ones have been very lacking in terms of clan rewards and leaderboards.

It was still a question of how long, people just felt entitled to it without consideration for other people. This thread is going the same route in the reserve direction. It's hilarious really. You would think everyone would want changes to the game that make the game better but also acknowledge time investment and try and respect them, but it's quite the opposite.

"Just because you spent a lot of time doesn't mean everyone else should" is the most overused argument to dismiss other people's feedback on grind in this game.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Sentiel said:

Primed Sure Footed was a massive quality of life improvement for me.

Primed Shred helped some of my weapons, like Battacor for example, tremendously.

I never got Primed Fury because I use Berserker but I suppose it is valuable for low CC weapons.

Now, I'm waiting on Primed Vigor, hoping it would be great on Volt and Mag, especially since there's no Primed/Umbral Redirection.

Personally, I would add all primed mods as login rewards but also give Baro all of them to sell as well. Lastly, I'd enable full trading on all of them too. I believe time gating like this is unnecessary.

This + The cosmetics I mentioned above.

OR, if you want these mods to be more exclusive, just make them obtainable through the Steel Path star chart, like you get some points for completing missions, time spent in there(with multipliers after X minutes/waves, so it's not better to just spam Captures to get X points faster). Make it so it requires couple hours of work for 1 mod thats it. Make it with a Daily cap on it, so it needs at least 5-10 days of work(maybe 1-2 hours daily, even people with actual jobs should be able to have it in 2-3 weeks). (And just make it so it stays untradeable.)

Edited by Fukoshi
(And just make it so it stays untradeable.)
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