Can we get an option to cap incoming fire rate and attack speed buffs?

[Mephane]

Yeah, these buffs are nice increases for your DPS, except when they

• break the flow of attack chains or the cadence of semi-automatic weapons for which you have trained muscle memory (e.g. Basmu - too much fire rate and suddenly you end up with the long reload animation when you fire as you have trained yourself to stop just before emptying the magazine)
• break the feeling and style of certain weapons (not everything feels good as a gatling gun)
• outright break certain mechanics e.g.
  • glaive throw when dual wielded with a pistol doesn't work any more when you have too much attack speed
  • some weapons and stances cannot execute their full melee combo with too much attack speed

So please give us two settings, one for melee attack speed and one for fire rate, at which to cap these bonuses on ourselves (regardless of source), of course including an uncapped setting as well.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Mephane said:

outright break certain mechanics e.g.

• glaive throw when dual wielded with a pistol doesn't work any more when you have too much attack speed
• some weapons and stances cannot execute their full melee combo with too much attack speed

 

These need actual fixing, not bandaging up.

If DE can do that, I personally consider the other issues valid but minor enough that I might use such a setting very rarely, and maybe not at all.  That's just me though.

Maybe a better solution is the sometimes requested "Make my frame immune to buffs and effects from other players" feature.   Having one masterswitch has certainly got its drawbacks, but it might get used a bit more.

[DoomFruit]

14 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

These need actual fixing, not bandaging up.

If DE can do that, I personally consider the other issues valid but minor enough that I might use such a setting very rarely, and maybe not at all.  That's just me though.

Maybe a better solution is the sometimes requested "Make my frame immune to buffs and effects from other players" feature.   Having one masterswitch has certainly got its drawbacks, but it might get used a bit more.

Yes, the proper solution would be to actually fix the broken input system. But seeing as how I reported this problem about 11 months ago and it's been completely and utterly ignored for this entire time, I can only assume that they crapped up something fundamental and aren't actually capable of fixing it (the alternative, that they explicitly want melee to break when you get too high an attack speed, is flat out absurd). One of their trademark band-aid fixes is probably the only solution at this point.

See here:

 

[Steel_Rook]

Honestly, I'd say either melee attack speed needs to cap at something sane, or else DE need to let us melee by holding the button rather than spamming it. They already moved the Heavy Attack to its own button, so holding the attack button right now does nothing. Just let me hold melee and let my character work through their stance combo animations. I mean, I don't have to keep mashing ADS in order to get the alternate combos.

And while we're at it, can we do the same to firearms, as well? Turn all the semi-autos into slow-firing autos that we can chain by holding the button, turn dual-trigger weapons into regular trigger weapons where holding the button fires both shots in sequence before triggering a shot delay or a reload. Turn burst triggers into "autoburst" triggers, too - the Dual Decurion used to do that when it first came out as an Atmospheric Archgun. For charge triggers with an auto-release, immediately start charging the next shot when the button is still held.

While I understand that high fire rate ought to have drawbacks, "mashing keys" shouldn't be among them. Limiting my performance based on how willing I am to destroy my own keyboard and mouse is not good design.

[NecroPed]

1 minute ago, Steel_Rook said:

Honestly, I'd say either melee attack speed needs to cap at something sane, or else DE need to let us melee by holding the button rather than spamming it. They already moved the Heavy Attack to its own button, so holding the attack button right now does nothing. Just let me hold melee and let my character work through their stance combo animations. I mean, I don't have to keep mashing ADS in order to get the alternate combos.

And while we're at it, can we do the same to firearms, as well? Turn all the semi-autos into slow-firing autos that we can chain by holding the button, turn dual-trigger weapons into regular trigger weapons where holding the button fires both shots in sequence before triggering a shot delay or a reload. Turn burst triggers into "autoburst" triggers, too - the Dual Decurion used to do that when it first came out as an Atmospheric Archgun. For charge triggers with an auto-release, immediately start charging the next shot when the button is still held.

While I understand that high fire rate ought to have drawbacks, "mashing keys" shouldn't be among them. Limiting my performance based on how willing I am to destroy my own keyboard and mouse is not good design.

My keyboard would thank DE for a hold to melee button. My E key always goes before anything else and it might help get more use out of my keyboards. Some buffs make it so I can't keep up with the button presses too so it would be nice to have the ability to simply hold the button.

[Mephane]

While I absolutely agree all the various bugs surrounding high attack speed melee need to be fixed, that would still not alleviate the point where the sheer feeling and even certain special mechanics of a melee weapon or gun also depend on its attack speed resp. fire rate.

For example, I'll happily take all the fire rate buffs in the world when using Supra Vandal, which is essentially kind of a gatling plasma cannon. On the other hand, when using Basmu, as I have already mentioned, even relatively small fire rate buffs wreck any muscle memory around how long to hold the fire button in order to almost but not fully empty the magazine, a key part of skillful use of a weapon designed around controlling your bursts and deliberately emptying the small magazine only when you need the healing.

22 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Maybe a better solution is the sometimes requested "Make my frame immune to buffs and effects from other players" feature.   Having one masterswitch has certainly got its drawbacks, but it might get used a bit more.

Us Germans have a saying, this would "dump the baby with the bathwater" ("das Kind mit dem Badewasser ausschütten"). My proposal is not with the aim of being able to deliberately nerf yourself in team situations, but to specifically address the issues - some of which are not resolvable by bugfixing - of fire rate and melee attack speed buffs.

That said, I could get behind a more extensive solution where you could choose for each individual buff whether you want to have it applied to you or not (Wisp's Shock Mote immediately comes to mind as something you mind want to reject in various situations), but that would be one or two orders of magnitude more programming effort than a simple "ignore attack speed and fire rate buffs from team mates" toggle.

[Tiltskillet]

22 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I can only assume that they crapped up something fundamental and aren't actually capable of fixing it (the alternative, that they explicitly want melee to break when you get too high an attack speed, is flat out absurd).

Another possibility  is that it's backburnered to hell like, oh, two or three other issues in this game.  😉

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

And this is why when rando Volt starts spamming Speed faster than I can Rollout of it, I leave squad.....

Its great that Rolling backwards lets me opt-out, except its useless if he can spam faster than my roll animation.

 

How about a nice Duration Timer on the Opt-out? make it block future speed buffs for 30secs min?

 

Or... just make Volt's speed boost Not Apply to allies.... or make its Range unaffected by mods....