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Why does Zenistar even Exist at this point?


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I love that I played for 10 months straight to get this godly weapon, invested a lot of platinum into getting a riven to maximize its potential and it got nerfed. 

Today almost a full year post-nerf, I've used it once and it's still my most used melee weapon by FAR. You lose ALL your combo counter to throw the disk, which is highly counter-intuitive to the fast-paced ninja game we're playing. I don't have time to work up a combo counter over 4 minutes and throw out a disk that lasts 2 minutes when most missions complete in less than 6. We literally complete Mobile Defense Targets in less time than it takes to work the Zenistar up to relevance in protecting said Defense target.

My riven no longer works. The attributes that used to benefit Zenistar now don't, so...screw me, I guess? Groll no more.

It has a riven disposition of 3, up from 1- signalling it's true lack of application. It got dwarfed by Sigma & Octantis, which is now the standout daily reward weapon with no significant gimmick. 100% honesty is that Silva & Aegis Prime is an objectively better sword/shield. Some use the Zenith to destroy crewship reactors- but that single use case was nerfed with the addition of reactor shielding anyway. 

Who out there is actually using the Zenistar to great effect anywhere? The original 45sec timer allowed you to create a build focused around status effect application and range, easy enough. Misplaced your disk? No problem! Call it back. Objective completed? No problem! Just leave and the disk will call back. 
With the changes, you get 15s without combo and in reality need more than 8 mod slots since you must build for status, range and combo counter (how? You can't do all 3). Misplaced your disk? **** you, start over. Objective completed? **** you, start over. Successfully launched a perfect disk? **** you, START. OVER. 

When the community talks about bad faith and being upset about things, it's things like this that returning players get back and see that makes them want to just hit uninstall. Nerfing Zenistar was and continues to be a slap in the face to everyone who decided NOT to drop Warframe and it's disappointing Development doesn't see it that way. 

I'm long passed advocating for a revert of the nerf. At this point it's far too late as my godroll riven has been rerolled to make Zenistar kinda usable and I still don't use it, because it's still not usable.

Why do any of these weapons exist when they aren't useful at all?

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Why does Braton exist when I have the Prime?

Why does vegetables exist when we have meat.

Why does mosquitos exist when we have bugspray?

Why is this thing not totaly OP so I can say why this other less powerful thing exists?

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21 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

I'm long passed advocating for a revert of the nerf. At this point it's far too late as my godroll riven has been rerolled to make Zenistar kinda usable and I still don't use it, because it's still not usable.

What? A change of disposition wouldn't make a godroll less of a godroll. That term refers to having the best possible stats for that particular set of conditions. The numbers may look smaller, but percentage wise they're still going to be the highest possible values. 

Sounds like you really just want them to give you one button win so you can afk, and you'll call anything less than that no good. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What? A change of disposition wouldn't make a godroll less of a godroll. That term refers to having the best possible stats for that particular set of conditions. The numbers may look smaller, but percentage wise they're still going to be the highest possible values. 

Sounds like you really just want them to give you one button win so you can afk, and you'll call anything less than that no good. 

The groll has been rerolled because you need combo count chance-centric rolls as opposed to range/status chance/melee damage rolls. They changed the mechanics of how the weapon works entirely.

Zenistar isn't afk, at all. it simply applies status to complement complete setups for 45s. It kills level 30s and below, sure, but they were gonna die anyway. It makes no sense to use it without building combo now and the combo takes too long to build up to effectively place the disk pursuant of completing an objective. This coming from a guy who has a 41% chance for extra combo on hit with maxed naramon focus. 

AND you LOSE your combo counter when you place the disk. How often have you misplaced a zenistar disk? ALL THE TIME. The system simply punishes you for trying to use it now. 

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The concept of the game is if its good expect it to get nerf one day. Never become attached to any frame or weapon as they are intended to change per the user base statistics. Just remember everything good has been nerfed. Especially if the weapon or frame allows you going AFK while killing everything that walking in its path. You can have one or the other without being too excessive but not both.

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20 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

The groll has been rerolled because you need combo count chance-centric rolls as opposed to range/status chance/melee damage rolls. They changed the mechanics of how the weapon works entirely.

Zenistar isn't afk, at all. it simply applies status to complement complete setups for 45s. It kills level 30s and below, sure, but they were gonna die anyway. It makes no sense to use it without building combo now and the combo takes too long to build up to effectively place the disk pursuant of completing an objective. This coming from a guy who has a 41% chance for extra combo on hit with maxed naramon focus. 

AND you LOSE your combo counter when you place the disk. How often have you misplaced a zenistar disk? ALL THE TIME. The system simply punishes you for trying to use it now. 

Oh I absolutely know how it works, but like I said that's what you seem to be asking for. The system doesn't punish me for using mine, and I don't bother with a riven. Pretty sure I had it set to blast too, because knocking them off their feet for a while was all I really need it to do to allow me to control the point, and now it messes with their aim once they walk near it, so I'm ok with that too.

My real grouse isn't with the weapon but with it's interaction with Frost's (*&^$^ globes. 🙄

3 minutes ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

They put out good things as money grabs and then nerf them into the ground to get ready for the next money grab. The way it has always been 

So... how much money did you pay for your Zenistar??

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Doesn't the Zenistar time scale with combo? If you have maximum combo... doesn't it last like 2 minutes (10 * 12 = 120 seconds)? Ah... but you probably play Zenurik. Well, do you want slow energy regeneration on demand or do you want 2 minute Zenistar disks?

I'm going to have to try this on my Naramon Khora. Somehow I think it's going to work great on her... but I honestly think it's a boring weapon.

Also, Silva & Aegis Prime is not better than Sigma & Octanis IMO. It has very slow attack speed and it uses heat which I think is not that great. Heat isn't that great because no matter how many heat procs you have on enemy, the damage tick is always dealt in 1 second increments. It's deals large values of damage, but it's very very slow. Now compare Silva & Aegis Prime's Heat damage (with its very very slow Heat tick damage) to Sigma & Octanis' Slash damage. Each Slash proc is going to independently deal damage over time ... and then Slash procs ignore enemy armor on top of that (so no need to wait for armor to be stripped over 6 seconds). So it's not uncommon to see a Christmas tree of Slash damage tick numbers on an enemy using a weapon like Sigma & Octanis. You only get 1 number per second on your Heat damage tick on Silva & Aegis Prime. So there you go... Sigma & Octanis is objectively better than Silva & Aegis Prime and it doesn't feel like you're attacking enemies while submerged in a barrel of molasses.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh I absolutely know how it works, but like I said that's what you seem to be asking for. The system doesn't punish me for using mine, and I don't bother with a riven. Pretty sure I had it set to blast too, because knocking them off their feet for a while was all I really need it to do to allow me to control the point, and now it messes with their aim once they walk near it, so I'm ok with that too.

My real grouse isn't with the weapon but with it's interaction with Frost's (*&^$^ globes. 🙄

So... how much money did you pay for your Zenistar??

You know that you don’t pay for it. But people paid for good rivins for it. I try to never give them money anymore 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

You know that you don’t pay for it. But people paid for good rivins for it. I try to never give them money anymore 

They bought those rivens from DE did they? I haven't seen them in my market console, which tab are they under?

 

12 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

Because vegans refuse to eat anything animal related .

They must really hate plants. Haven't they ever heard of the experiments by Dr. Gustav Theodor Fechner and, Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose? That's pretty messed up.

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1 hour ago, nslay said:

Doesn't the Zenistar time scale with combo? If you have maximum combo... doesn't it last like 2 minutes (10 * 12 = 120 seconds)? Ah... but you probably play Zenurik. Well, do you want slow energy regeneration on demand or do you want 2 minute Zenistar disks?

I'm going to have to try this on my Naramon Khora. Somehow I think it's going to work great on her... 

Also, Silva & Aegis Prime is not better than Sigma & Octanis IMO.

Yes, it scales with combo. The kicker is that by the time you build sufficient combo, the objective is complete and you're moving on in 80% of the game's content. Even if you do time it perfectly- don't miss! If you do, you'll lose all combo and need to start over while your 2minute long disk is embedded in the ground, as the derpy mechanic of it bouncing off things hasn't been fixed.

Naramon Khora Zenistar is a bit counter-intuitive. Strangledome brings them closer, sure, but you could just massacre them with your 1. Using the Zenistar actually slows you down and makes you question why you even brought it with Khora.

S&A is nearly the same as S&O except the heat damage. Your opinion of heat damage is just that. For the rest of us, combining it with corrosive or viral is a defined meta damage structure and so the exact same build on my S&O on my S&A Prime is statically killing enemies faster.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

 I try to never give them money anymore 

This is the conclusion we keep drawing from nerfing everything all the time. Pandering to confusing new players into buying something then abandoning the game isn't a viable model. There are a finite amount of video game players in the world. Every time we think back to Warframe and remember our money isn't well spent, we spend it elsewhere- period.

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8 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Why does Braton exist when I have the Prime?

Why does vegetables exist when we have meat.

Why does mosquitos exist when we have bugspray?

Why is this thing not totaly OP so I can say why this other less powerful thing exists?

These don't even correlate and have very real answers. It's not OP in anyway, it's useless. Zenistar is the only weapon in the game that does what it does- and now it's the worst version of itself possible. 

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Yes, it scales with combo. The kicker is that by the time you build sufficient combo, the objective is complete and you're moving on in 80% of the game's content. Even if you do time it perfectly- don't miss! If you do, you'll lose all combo and need to start over while your 2minute long disk is embedded in the ground, as the derpy mechanic of it bouncing off things hasn't been fixed.

Naramon Khora Zenistar is a bit counter-intuitive. Strangledome brings them closer, sure, but you could just massacre them with your 1. Using the Zenistar actually slows you down and makes you question why you even brought it with Khora.

S&A is nearly the same as S&O except the heat damage. Your opinion of heat damage is just that. For the rest of us, combining it with corrosive or viral is a defined meta damage structure and so the exact same build on my S&O on my S&A Prime is statically killing enemies faster.

Well, from using Naramon Khora in ESO a lot (resets combo every zone)... I can build maximum combo pretty quickly using her Ensnare and meleeing the large clump of enemies (this is what I do when entering a new zone). Owing to the spawn mechanics in Steel Path, this also works Steel Path missions. I insist, combo is no problem... max combo can be achieved in seconds this way with numerous spawns. I use a Rakta Dark Dagger to execute this trick. And it will only work better with a weapon like Zenistar which has higher attack range (so you can hit even more of those clumped enemies at the same time).

The counter-intuitive aspect is how to use the disk in combination with her Strangledome and Whipclaw. I will never know if I don't try! You might be right... the Zenistar may just be a "tacked on" melee for Khora.

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