why is mag so bad as a starter frame?

[SonOfMaahes]

evening all.

 i had a few free accounts to try out the three starter frames and the weapons. it was tough picking between volt and excalibur, while mag felt so weak. even with the flawed mods maxed out, she still felt weaker than the other 2.

i watched the intro video from warframe, and some on youtube, so i believe i knew how her powers worked together. i really wanted to like her, and truly tried to use her correctly.

what happened? was it me, or is she not a solo frame?

thank you.

[Methanoid]

the frame isnt bad, as usual most warframes suck before you own specific mods and rank them up, mag isnt unique here, you should be more sympathetic for players like me who had loki as a starter frame, he ate the floor more than he walked on it.

[(PSN)Claudija]

12 minutes ago, Cyba_Zero said:

How about Ember? She fills the female slot, is fairly simple, but with room to grow. Mag's trouble is she has a high ceiling but also a fairly high floor, which isn't great for ungeared newbies. Alternatively, seeing as there isn't much for tanking in the starter roster, how about Gara or Valkyr? Both are fairly simple and functional without a big pile of mods.

Gara is quest-locked so she couldn't be a starter.

I'd pop Ivara or Banshee in place of Mag as a starter; especially as they worked so hard telling us we're space ninjas but none of the starters really have the stealth approach. Banshee, silencing all weapons at least feels more ninja and Iva with her Predator-esque cloaking also fills the stealth assassin fantasy.

[kgabor]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Claudija said:

-snip-

Choosing quest frames could start the game with their quest, Mirage-s quest wasn't hard as far as i remember, could be doable even with 'Suit'. (given it would have the tools to complete the quests)

Harrow's quest would be a little more problematic though, especially because it would bypass the farming for the frame parts.

[(PSN)Claudija]

2 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Could be all of them being an option.

Choosing quest frames could start the game with their quest, Mirage-s quest wasn't hard as far as i remember, could be doable even with 'Suit'. (given it would have the tools to complete the quests)

Harrow's quest would be a little more problematic though, especially because it would bypass the farming for the frame parts.

Hmm that could be cool actually. Has Harrow got a quest? I know his BPs drop on us through just playing the game much like Oberon (and gawd I can run a production line of him the ease and amout of; Oberon BPs we get). I know we have the Chains of Harrow quest but did it award us his BP?

[Hypnos]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Claudija said:

Hmm that could be cool actually. Has Harrow got a quest? I know his BPs drop on us through just playing the game much like Oberon (and gawd I can run a production line of him the ease and amout of; Oberon BPs we get). I know we have the Chains of Harrow quest but did it award us his BP?

Yeap it does award his BP. his chasis drops like oberon parts xd not his main bp :D

[Imniscor]

Mag has one of the top tier damage, up there with Banshee and Saryn (currently Khora is top and by far), very decent crowd controls almost as good as Vauban and She can combo her powers and melee/firearms very well. She is one of the most well balanced frames provided you have the mods.
Ah and all her powers are useful, unlike most frames out there.

Mag, as everyone said, is energy heavy and one of the frames with the higher learning curve because you have to manage her shields/energy all the while knowing how to profit from her damage multipliers. It's not Baruuk crazy management or Harrow nightmare management though that you play frame management instead of actually playing the game.

As a new player without mods or with broken mods, She is a lot worse than Excalibur that can hack the whole map with his exalted weapon and She is probably on par with Volt, whose speed/damage buff are pretty useless at low duration/low strength.

If I remember well, Loki and Banshee were at some point in time, the 2 other options for starter picks beside Excalibur.
But that was 2012/2013.
I can't remember exactly because when I purchased the Founder's pack in 2012 it came with Saryn and I mained Saryn for 4 years.
But I had another F2P account that I created for my brother and there's this memory of Loki/Banshee in my head.

[kgabor]

32 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

What would be the issue with Zephyr. Her health and armor are okay, especially at low ranked missions, she has a good defensive ability, and the jump/fly mechanics are just fun.

Zephyr is just not particularly bad but not particularly good either.

Turbulence is good, most people even a lot of high MR-s doesn't seem to even know it exists.

Tornadoes are an okay cc, if wonky and unreliable.

Tail Wind is useful in open worlds, mostly detrimental outside.

I don't see any point in Airburst.

It's like the best frame for starting out in open worlds, otherwise average.

Could be an option actually, but would be a worse choice than f.ex. Frost for unlocking the starchart.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Honestly I think Mag is a fine starter frame; I think the mistake that many veterans make is that they try to overlay Mag's end-game style of play onto the beginning of Warframe.  And that sets a new player up for failure.

Early game Mag is simple: you use Pull.  It's affordable, it's amazing CC, and for a new player it's simply more bang for your buck compared to Shock and Slash Dash. Plus anything that it kills has an increased chance to drop energy, which fuels additional Pulls.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying any of the frames are better than the others in terms of early game.  But if you focus towards Mag's early-game strengths, she's just as viable as the other two.

[Refson]

12 hours ago, SonOfMaahes said:

evening all.

 i had a few free accounts to try out the three starter frames and the weapons. it was tough picking between volt and excalibur, while mag felt so weak. even with the flawed mods maxed out, she still felt weaker than the other 2.

i watched the intro video from warframe, and some on youtube, so i believe i knew how her powers worked together. i really wanted to like her, and truly tried to use her correctly.

what happened? was it me, or is she not a solo frame?

thank you.

She is great but you have to have good mods far better ones than flawed mods my advice is to progress with a frame such as excal and when you get better mods and you undestand more about how the game works you will be able to play her

[Cyba_Zero]

How about Ember? She fills the female slot, is fairly simple, but with room to grow. Mag's trouble is she has a high ceiling but also a fairly high floor, which isn't great for ungeared newbies. Alternatively, seeing as there isn't much for tanking in the starter roster, how about Gara or Valkyr? Both are fairly simple and functional without a big pile of mods.

[kwlingo]

Mag is one of the best but it takes skills and understanding to use her effectively. Which shouldn't be a starter frame. Starter frame should just be tank frames because most new players have no idea what kind of research they have to do before understanding anything in this game.

[Hexsing]

I always felt Nyx should have been the starter frame female.  But it's Nyx and while amazing she needs work.   

Banshee would have been my second for female starter with Ember being 3rd.  

But heck.  Even Nyx's original model design was Excalibur.

[(PSN)Claudija]

8 hours ago, Imniscor said:

Mag has one of the top tier damage, up there with Banshee and Saryn (currently Khora is top and by far), very decent crowd controls almost as good as Vauban and She can combo her powers and melee/firearms very well. She is one of the most well balanced frames provided you have the mods.
Ah and all her powers are useful, unlike most frames out there.

Mag, as everyone said, is energy heavy and one of the frames with the higher learning curve because you have to manage her shields/energy all the while knowing how to profit from her damage multipliers. It's not Baruuk crazy management or Harrow nightmare management though that you play frame management instead of actually playing the game.

As a new player without mods or with broken mods, She is a lot worse than Excalibur that can hack the whole map with his exalted weapon and She is probably on par with Volt, whose speed/damage buff are pretty useless at low duration/low strength.

If I remember well, Loki and Banshee were at some point in time, the 2 other options for starter picks beside Excalibur.
But that was 2012/2013.
I can't remember exactly because when I purchased the Founder's pack in 2012 it came with Saryn and I mained Saryn for 4 years.
But I had another F2P account that I created for my brother and there's this memory of Loki/Banshee in my head.

You remembered right, Loki was a starter frame before they changed; I think Volt replaced him? When I started though it was the more recognised trio- Excal, Volt and Mag.

I took Volt but I didn't really like him at the time, always been luckier with a female avatar for some reason 😋 I then had Frost Prime from Twitch Prime Loot but Trinity Prime really was my first main until Khora who's still my leading lady. Just wish her Deluxe didn't make her look pregnant 😆

[(PSN)Claudija]

8 hours ago, Hypnos said:

Yeap it does award his BP. his chasis drops like oberon parts xd not his main bp :D

Thanks for clearing that Hypnos :p I did wonder how I had a Harrow BP in my inventory when I'd been gifted him for Christmas xD

[(NSW)Reason]

Mag is a late game frame. She simply requires solid builds to work well. MR 29 people can still enter a game with no mods on Mag and she'll do nothing

[(NSW)Joewoof]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

Early game Mag is simple: you use Pull.  It's affordable, it's amazing CC, and for a new player it's simply more bang for your buck compared to Shock and Slash Dash. Plus anything that it kills has an increased chance to drop energy, which fuels additional Pulls.

I have to second this. Her Pull is ridiculously powerful early game, and I had no problems with her at all early on. She was my starter frame, and I still use her regularly. Modded correctly for late-game content, she becomes a real monster.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Warframe is not balanced.  Your survival in this game is about killing the enemy before they kill you.   When you start out you have hardly any offense.  This makes whichever frame you pick have to take alot of punishment.   Out of the 3 starters Mag prob has the least armor/health.   Shield gating probably doesnt help newbs who sustain constant damage.   So I could see how people might have trouble....

Even if you know her powers well, you still need to use them OFTEN which runs right into energy management.  Newbs have no good method with this.  They cant spam powers.   

My only advice would be to spam pull,  it knocks people down giving you a few seconds reprieve from taking damage.  2,3, and 4th ability cost to much to spam as a newb so they wont be mch help lol.

Mag was my starter tho and I used her a hell of a long time.  She is a really good benchmark to let me know how much I have used my other warframes.  If they go pass original Mag it means alot...   

Mag Prime is currently #3 frame for me in terms of usage.   I have one build to focus on Pulse and one to focus on Crush.  I use crush build generally.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

On 2020-09-28 at 9:40 PM, SonOfMaahes said:

evening all.

 i had a few free accounts to try out the three starter frames and the weapons. it was tough picking between volt and excalibur, while mag felt so weak. even with the flawed mods maxed out, she still felt weaker than the other 2.

i watched the intro video from warframe, and some on youtube, so i believe i knew how her powers worked together. i really wanted to like her, and truly tried to use her correctly.

what happened? was it me, or is she not a solo frame?

thank you.

I didn't read through replies...

Mag early on will feel weaker then Volt and Excal, stat-wise she is squishier IMO and you won't have the mods to tank her up.  And he is very energy hungry ability-wise, and again mod access is limited and there is no Zenurik or arcanes.  Those are why early on she lags behind, but mid and late game she excels.  

Volt's passive alone makes him great in early game despite the mod selection as it's a free weapon damage bonus, mid-game is meh until you have reliably energy return methods, late game he has some good build options.

Excal to me is the easy option for starters, better durability and good damaging abilities, very good up through Jupiter. Can be good mid-game, late game I find him very meh or situational; but that's me, the other 2 starters quickly exceed him later on. 

NOTE: I don't use pizza's, never have and never will so keep that in mind when reading my take.

[Deshiel]

5 hours ago, Hypnos said:

she is great frame, im Maining her, she is kinda hard to learn for newbie, her 3 reset your shield and nukes rooms (also cc with augment) her 4 gives you overshields(purple shields)
 her 2 is pulls enemies in a buble and can turn to huge nuker if you use together with her augment as well :D

this is what i use for her

(just noticed this is old build screenshot :D replace Rolling Guard with Natural Talent)

Flexing with farmed builds to a guy who only cares about the first experience and has zero inventory...

[Hypnos]

She is great frame. I'm Maining her, she is kinda hard to learn for newbie.
Her 3 reset your shield and nukes rooms[nukes only if the enemy has Armor or shield, it does no dmg to infested] (Also cc with augment).
Her 4 gives you overshields(purple shields) and little bit crowd control.
 Her 2 is pulls enemies in a buble and can turn to huge nuker if you use together with her augment as well.
https://prnt.sc/uptdsa Changed the build for more starter friednyl approach  but still she is too reliant for energy(If you don't have Energy Pizzas or Zenurik{Focus School} or Arcane Energize{not something begginer can farm} it would be kinda hard).
 You should just join a clan and get Nezha or wukong blueprints from dojo, They both are pretty  starter friendly
 
 

[KitMeHarder]

Because she's nothing without energy and synergetic weapons, but later on she's great. IMO just pick Excal and migrate to what you like later on.

[Sevek7]

9 minutes ago, SonOfMaahes said:

evening all.

 i had a few free accounts to try out the three starter frames and the weapons. it was tough picking between volt and excalibur, while mag felt so weak. even with the flawed mods maxed out, she still felt weaker than the other 2.

i watched the intro video from warframe, and some on youtube, so i believe i knew how her powers worked together. i really wanted to like her, and truly tried to use her correctly.

what happened? was it me, or is she not a solo frame?

thank you.

Mag is one of those frames that is really, really powerful. But, you won't see that power without a nice build with maxed mods. As @Hypnos mentioned, she is capable of great damage with her 2, some crowd control with 1,2, and 4, and with augment mod counter pulse on 3. She can survive in high level via shield tanking - by resetting shield gate from pressing 3 whenever shields are down. At lower levels, you can build up overshields with 4 to survive most things very effectively. 

So, she's a bit of a Jack-of-all-trades, but doesn't do any of them perfectly. If you want a frame for nuking, there are better alternatives. If you want a frame for crowd control, there are better alternatives, and if you want a frame that survives well in high level content, there are better alternatives. But, there are very few frames that can do a little bit of all 3, like Mag can.

She was my starter, and I still play her a lot. But it's a very engaging playstyle. You need to always be on your toes [especially against high level enemies], managing your energy well, and keeping an eye out for enemies that slip past you. This is fine for 3 minute missions, but if you want to do long missions like survival 1h+, eventually you will get tired and therefore become vulnerable due to slip-ups. Other frames can solo the entire game including survival 3h+ while you don't even need your eyes open [and you likely won't even be able to keep your eyes open, because these frames are so extremely boring to play]. 

But don't worry! The decision is not final. You can start with a frame you like at the beginning, and build other frames later on. After you've played for a while, you will have big stockpiles of resources, building the frames will cost you basically nothing. So, if you're struggling with Mag at the beginning, when you don't have good mods yet, you can start with a different frame, and then build Mag later. Ultimately, your starting choice doesn't lock you into anything, if you stick around and end up buying Warframe slots with your earned platinum, you will want to have many frames for many different situations. 

[hyzmarca]

38 minutes ago, SonOfMaahes said:

evening all.

 i had a few free accounts to try out the three starter frames and the weapons. it was tough picking between volt and excalibur, while mag felt so weak. even with the flawed mods maxed out, she still felt weaker than the other 2.

i watched the intro video from warframe, and some on youtube, so i believe i knew how her powers worked together. i really wanted to like her, and truly tried to use her correctly.

what happened? was it me, or is she not a solo frame?

thank you.

Mag starts out strong on Earth and Mercury,  where Pull can outright kill large groups of enemies.   By the time you hit Mars,  though,  Pull's damage has fallen off and you need to take advantage of other parts of her kit,  which can be harder to use.  Magnetize is strong against single targets,  but using it well requires experience,  and it doesn't shine until late game when you can build for it specifically.  

[McCIoud]

Mag needs mods and a means of energy generating, both of which new players generally don't have for awhile.

She ain't bad, just needs some stuff to really shine

[vegetosayajin]

Because she shouldn't be a starter frame. She needs mods, modding knowledge, energy efficiency and good modded weapons also.
Mag is s terrible choice for someone who hasn't played the game at all and is just starting.
I have no idea why she is still in the starting frames rooster.
Frost will be a much better choice for a starter tenno.He can work with the basic mods or no mods to some extend and can help with some missions starting tenno struggle, he won't make you get bad habbits(like rhino or loki) at the start and has good survivability stats.