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Upcoming Xaku Changes: Round 2!


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1 hour ago, R4ndom said:

 

Maybe system that will flag you as afk if you idle too long and not let you gain progression (xp, loot) and cutting of energy regen would be better instead of making potentially fun mechanics deal so little damage or have so little range that no one will use it.

 

Thats already ingame. Once you stand still for like 1 minute or 2 you dont get exp and are unable to pickup loot and health-/energyorbs.

I also LOVE the fact that DE always mentions Ember or Banshee when talking about afk frames but never care to change equinox which can do it just the same.... Saryn also doesnt really need to be "active" to keep the spores alive. If your teammates aim for them you can basically go afk. and even if not shooting into a group of enemies with an ignis every min isnt really "active" gameplay.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

It's not really void damage if it does not affect eidolons now is it? 

My guess from a lore perspective void damage from the operator via an amp is different to void damage projected by a warframe power is different. Its my understanding that all warframes' powers are generated from void energy(But cant hurt eidolons shields). Same as iron ore is different to iron bar but both are iron.

Edited by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson
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I am liking the changes suggested,

 

Xaku is as of now an above average frame if it is min maxed and has subsumed abilities that add survivability (but that's true for any frame really),

with these changes he should be in the good category purely on the merit of his own kit even without needing to min max.

I will still likely not be using deny despite the various changes,

I am still not sure about the Void status proc, feels like what magnetic should have been.

Void needs a proper "Chaotic" effect instead of a magnetic bubble - it will still be replaced in most of my configs.

 

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5 minutes ago, __Wendigo__ said:

Thats already ingame. Once you stand still for like 1 minute or 2 you dont get exp and are unable to pickup loot and health-/energyorbs.

I also LOVE the fact that DE always mentions Ember or Banshee when talking about afk frames but never care to change equinox which can do it just the same.... Saryn also doesnt really need to be "active" to keep the spores alive. If your teammates aim for them you can basically go afk. and even if not shooting into a group of enemies with an ignis every min isnt really "active" gameplay.

Alright. Still, point is, rather improve those types of systems than make abilities weak on purpose just because some players may afk.

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Just now, R4ndom said:

Alright. Still, point is, rather improve those types of systems than make abilities weak on purpose just because some players may afk.

Exactly. Just punish those players harder. Give them a warning maybe if they afk to long no mission rewards. Nothing. Nerfing stuff because others dont wanna play isnt a good way to manage a game.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

I actually requested this myself late last night ahaha. The team came through after the workshop was posted with the change (they are truly rockstars) for both Grasp of Lohk and Accuse! I edited my post to reflect that :) 

Grasp.PNG

Question if you are at max guns, will/can a recast remove and replace the guns with lowest durations? This will help with having a full gun uptake providing you find enough enemies to disarm.

Edited by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson
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Боюсь, такими темпами Заку переапают, и его придётся нерфить.

  

6 минут назад, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson сказал:

Question if you are at max guns, will a recast replace the guns with lowest duration? This will help with having a full gun uptake providing you find enough enemies to disarm.


Also recast 2 on higher lvl enemies increases it's damage.

Edited by maaleru
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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

 

  • Note on Grasp of Lohk’s ‘Target Range’: 
    • In Round 1, we made the distinction between Grasp of Lohk’s ‘Grab Range’ and ‘Target Range’. We then increased its ‘Grab Range’ and left ‘Target Range’ untouched due to “firing range experiments being a bit too wild for Round 1”. As we’ve continued testing, this has held true. In any instance where we’ve increased it, even slightly, we neared a state that we had already established was undesirable due to its encouragement of an ‘inactive’ way of playing (Ember’s “World on Fire” comes to mind before it was changed to “Inferno”). As a result, ‘Target Range’ will continue to remain untouched for this round.

 

This is by far the most stupid reason I've heard to not buff an ability. The guns already only shoot line of sight. Ember could obliterate everyone in the startchart in a 40m radius not caring about seeing an enemy.
So does Equinox! She can even just use her 4 again to burst every enemy.
Also Saryns spores spread really far without line of sight too. No Problems with that right?

There are so many overpowered things in this game which can potentionally just kill lvl 1000 enemies without problems. Yet you dont want us to use guns in ranged combat?

8m radius? For real? I have meleeweapons with more range. Keep in mind: Those meleeweapons can just instakill lvl 130+ enemies in a single heavy attack hit without combostacks or Condition Overload. So why the hell should I even care about using this ability? Its basically useless. If the weapons would use the mods on your primary, fine. If they applied the voidstatus and only aimed for heads, fine. But like this? Hell naw.

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1 hour ago, sorcer3r said:

Well....  Max 75% evasion is still disappointing. 

Playing with Xaku is fun since I have replaced Xaku's  ult (!) . 

Xaku's 2 and and the new infused ability work great together.  And most of the time I forget about Xaku's 3. Those 3 abilites take too much time to cast. It feels so clunky.

With Xaku's ult I have no fashion frame and his ult is not good enough to sacrifice fashion...

Xaku is a great frame for Helminth. Pretty disappointing when a third ability (infused as ult) of another frame makes Xaku viable.

 

 

 

I agree with its 3rd clunkyness, I wish they linked multi select abilitys on energy/emissive colour like they did on elemental ward and helminth rest/rage. A colour for each power and a colour for tap and select. 

In general gameplay I tend to only use 1 of the tap and select powers(Any tap and select power frame) so having a choice to only have 1 I selected is very convenient to have.

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So essentially Xaku is still a massive range and strength hog due to grasp needing max range for the total number of guns and the refusal to buff its firing range, and Gaze needing 200% strength to full strip armor. Which is required for Grasp to start doing damage at higher levels.

Also, Grasp of Lohk is nowhere in the ballpark of World On Fire. WoF actually did decent damage and only needed one cast to be at full effect. Grasp requires multiple and active refreshing of Vast untime to maintain the frozen duration.

Honestly, if there is such concern over making an ability good then just replace it at this point.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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hold-to-cast on target enemy is a terrible mechanic

it artificially increases the casting time

on console you have to take your thumb off the stick making it very inconvenient to aim

if you're playing with other players the likelihood that enemy will die before casting finishes is very high

 

these combine to make hold-to-cast target enemy abilities an unpleasant experience

 

I would add personally I dislike any target enemy ability in general, it's why I don't play mag which is otherwise an awesome warframe

but hold-to-cast makes it way worse

Edited by (PS4)OxBowDVC
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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Xata’s Whisper (Void Status Effect): 

  • Void damage’s Status Effect will now redirect projectiles to the body part it proc’d on. 
    • How it will work: If you shoot at an enemy’s head with Xata’s Whisper enabled and proc, the bubble will redirect all projectiles to the head.

Would this synergize with Grasp of Lohk, as in if an enemy has an attractor on their head will Grasp of Lohk be able to headshot? If not, then there is still a rather glaring issue of Xata's Whisper just not being very useful for Xaku specifically, even if it becomes better for other frames as a subsumed ability. Xaku can easily kill most enemies passively, before the player even has a chance to shoot manually, so as long as Xata's Whisper has no synergy with other abilities there isn't much point in using it at all.

Xaku's passive is also underwhelming, especially when Vast Untime just replaces it with a more powerful version of itself. In practice, an average of 25% increase of survivability is pretty much nothing. Speaking of, even with Vast Untime Xaku's survivability is rather lacking. This dodge mechanic is as a whole inferior to plain old DR, so it should at least be 90% like most DR abilities are.

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Having the void Proc finally touched up, is a nice perk but this  still don,t touch up on some of the issues I see with Xaku

Xata's whisper is fine as is for a first ability and having the void proc act differently helps.

So, I still think Grasp of Lohk should still have a slightly higher firerate. Having separate durations. I sort of preferred it the other way. Since when i  play him i usually have no problem maxxing out the disarmed weapons. now there are times, but i dont feel like having to micromanage a second duration when i just stole from 6 enemies vs just stole from 3, and i run into 6 and i only take 3 more instead of having 6 and resetting the duration. (maybe that over complicates it? but i would prefer it, personally.)

The Lost  "Deny can now be cast while moving." - I feel like this should be straight for all 3 abilities of the lost,   Having the pause when casting for Accuse and Gaze Is Poor. (or Alternatively Speeding up Casting speeds.)

Deny- Even with the range, I still don't see anyone using this.

 Accuse- Much better, but even so, I still dont see anyone using this.

Gaze- Having the range buff is nice and appreciative.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Upcoming Xaku Changes: Round 2! 

Xaku's "The Lost" ability description will now include descriptions of "Accuse", "Deny", and "Gaze" within it. 

  • the lost.PNG

 

Description  - better but still misleading for Gaze and Deny. Gaze should say "creates field that strips enemies of armor and shields". Deny doesn't 'annihilate' anyone beyond baby levels.

"Void damage"

Guys, you need to rename it. It doesn't function like Void damage = its not 'void damage', dont deceive players, respect your own naming conventions.  Its understandable you dont want frame power to damage Eidolons, so the best resolution is just rename it and you will avoid all the confusion and disappointment.

 

"Grasp of Lohk recastable  Stolen weapons will no longer target invulnerable enemies."

  Good changes. But will it still disarm if you are maxed out?  Its a good ability since its both defensive and offensive: disarm + DPS.  Dont disable the disarm part when maxed on weapons already please.

"range undesirable due to its encouragement of an ‘inactive’ way of playing" - and whats Wukong bot auto-attack range?

"Accuse re-castable" -  still pretty meh (in team play they just get killed anyway). still could use better range,

"Gaze Increased base radius from 8m to 12m." - not huge but still a plus. Still needs to be targetless, just a local field.

Deny  - still complete waste that only makes switching abilities awkward, not worth 75 energy -  it would be weak even as 25 energy 1st ability. And Xaku has more than enough damage from stolen weapons so its redundant too. This puny damage for high energy cost shouldn't exist, please remove it and make Accuse/Gaze cast on tap/hold - that would be a big improvement to usabilty.

The Vast Untime:  - still line-of-sight blocked for no reason?

 

Edited by Monolake
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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Void damage’s Status Effect will now redirect projectiles to the body part it proc’d on. 

  • How it will work: If you shoot at an enemy’s head with Xata’s Whisper enabled and proc, the bubble will redirect all projectiles to the head. If you shoot at the feet, it’ll be redirected to the feet, etc.! It is however possible that even if you proc on the head but then shoot at the lower part of the bubble it might hit the body on the way up to being redirected to the head.

 

What happens if I get 3 procs on different places like chest, head and leg? Where are the shots redirected? Is the attraction bubble the same size?

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5 minutes ago, Monolake said:

"range undesirable due to its encouragement of an ‘inactive’ way of playing" - and whats Wukong bot auto-attack range?

Wukong's clone will turn off if you don't do anything. They did this to prevent AFK. As for Xaku, even with the limited range of his 2 people are already using him as a turret by entering operator void mode in small rooms.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Any suggestions to make that work without utterly invalidating the existence of amps?

 From Wiki

The Teralyst possesses a Sentient shield which is invulnerable to all sources of damage, it can only be harmed with Void damage which can only be utilized  by the Tenno Operator (which is unlocked after finishing the War Within).

If depleted, the Eidolon's joints — Teralyst Synovia — will become vulnerable to all forms of damage, not just  Void damage, but damage resistances still apply. Note that their shield can still regenerate after a moderate delay if not taking any damage.

 

They should have really thought this through before calling and making it a different version of "void" damage which invalidates calling it void damage if that is suppose to be the only damage type to be able to take down the eidolons shield. Operator beam and amps do Void damage. Void damage, no matter how it is dealt should affect eidolon shields if DE is going to call something Void damage (even though in this case, it's apparently an entirely different status that doesn't affect eidolons, so its a void damage off breed). That whole statement "It can only be harmed with Void damage which can only be utilized by the Tenno Operator" is completely invalidated by calling the status application on Xakus 1st ability Void damage. 

I don't want to invalidate the use and need for operators and amps etc. 

Maybe making a new status type only specific for the ability of Xaku except for those who subsume Xaku for the 1st ability. 

I saw someone had suggested a status affect that causes enemies to take more damage from other status affects that they would normally be more immune to like slag damage on borderlands. Hit enemy with this new damage status and say they were highly immune to viral damage, well now after being hit with Xakus new status, they would not be as immune. It could have been any other status type or another different type of ability, but they had to call it Void damage, knowing they wouldn't allow it to function on eidolons and such. 

I'm not mad about it not working on eidolons, I barely even hunt eidolons. I just am confused as to why do they call it void damage if it isn't going to function as the lore states. But just as Warframe can change without notice as can the lore. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

 From Wiki

The Teralyst possesses a Sentient shield which is invulnerable to all sources of damage, it can only be harmed with Void damage which can only be utilized  by the Tenno Operator (which is unlocked after finishing the War Within).

If depleted, the Eidolon's joints — Teralyst Synovia — will become vulnerable to all forms of damage, not just  Void damage, but damage resistances still apply. Note that their shield can still regenerate after a moderate delay if not taking any damage.

 

They should have really thought this through before calling and making it a different version of "void" damage which invalidates calling it void damage if that is suppose to be the only damage type to be able to take down the eidolons shield. Operator beam and amps do Void damage. Void damage, no matter how it is dealt should affect eidolon shields if DE is going to call something Void damage (even though in this case, it's apparently an entirely different status that doesn't affect eidolons, so its a void damage off breed). That whole statement "It can only be harmed with Void damage which can only be utilized by the Tenno Operator" is completely invalidated by calling the status application on Xakus 1st ability Void damage. 

I don't want to invalidate the use and need for operators and amps etc. 

Maybe making a new status type only specific for the ability of Xaku except for those who subsume Xaku for the 1st ability. 

I saw someone had suggested a status affect that causes enemies to take more damage from other status affects that they would normally be more immune to like slag damage on borderlands. Hit enemy with this new damage status and say they were highly immune to viral damage, well now after being hit with Xakus new status, they would not be as immune. It could have been any other status type or another different type of ability, but they had to call it Void damage, knowing they wouldn't allow it to function on eidolons and such. 

I'm not mad about it not working on eidolons, I barely even hunt eidolons. I just am confused as to why do they call it void damage if it isn't going to function as the lore states. But just as Warframe can change without notice as can the lore. 

 

 

From the Wiki:

The Eidolon is no common beast of the Plains, and cannot be laid low with the tools of an everyday hunter. These 'amps' focus the user's will into a killing beam, capable of eventually bringing one of these monstrosities down.

That means that Void damage alone is not hurting the Eidolons per se, but rather the will of the Operator. This is no different from a water cutter. Water alone doesn't cut; a concentrated pressured stream does.

Edited by Jarriaga
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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Known Xaku bugs planned for fixes: 

 

It is likely that the following fixes will be released across multiple hotfixes/updates as we make progress on them independently of one another. More fixes are sure to come as well!

  • Fixed certain Grasp of Lohk Primary weapons (bows for example) appearing as the Void entity orbs that you’d see when cast on Melee enemies, instead of a copy of the weapon. 

Thanks for the info, just to add onto the things that probably need fixing:

What situation causes Grasp of Lohk to duplicate your equipped Warframe weapon? and if that's intentional perhaps the Shedu needs to be alligned properly when that happens.

Also, turrets in The Orb Vallis, have very large "weapons" perhaps thy should get void orbs too?

E.G. (Two Shedu's pointing the wrong way and a Turret "weapon")

Warframe0079.jpg?raw=1

 

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