Thank you for adding Nav Coordinate to Bile

[Proscriptor]

6 minutes ago, mac10smg--Toa_of_Green said:

You actually don't remember correctly...because it's WAY worse than this.

It's 100 cryotic with one excavator taking 1:40; so 1 second for 1 cryoitc.

That's 3,600/hour. Or exacly ONE feeding, with some change.

 

And people still think the cryotic farm is perfectly fine for some reason...

yes it's perfeictly fine, i have 273k cryotic and you and anyone else can farm cryotic at 9k/50min with booster and kavat, while earning various other rewards such as prime loot and relics, and also the arbitrations rewards

[dEjAvU5566]

Great, next get rid of cost after Skill change for more than once.

[deyuaru]

On 2020-09-30 at 4:47 PM, Aldain said:

It's like clockwork.

Then again some people do confuse insane grind with effort so I guess I'm not surprised.

ikr

 

---

I do hope I can get ZAWs from Excavation... cause in this world there are always people who love to waste their time staying in the same MR and then justify stuff that doesn't make sense, when they can use the same time to get their MR higher.

[Densoro]

On 2020-09-30 at 3:08 AM, Surbusken said:

The helminth system itself should be nearly free or just have a story mission building it up to unlock.

When your frame gets blasted during the Deimos intro, I fully expected the story justification to be like, 'Hurry we have a cool infested mouth you can use to get your abilities back!' but then they just throw you in a Necromech instead.

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-09-30 at 1:28 PM, Berzerkules said:

...If I remember correctly you get 200 cryotic per drill and each one takes 1:30. That's 8000/hour if you have no down time in between drills. Not even 3 feedings per hour. ...

this is false

you can earn enough for 3 feedings per hour

proof:

[Berzerkules]

16 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

this is false

you can earn enough for 3 feedings per hour

proof:

I like how you conveniently failed to quote the next sentence where I said you could probably double that in an organized squad.

You got 1.5 feedings in 24m. Solo in the Void I've gotten 100+ argon in just just over an hour. That's like 10x more bile feedings. Cryotic farm is a waste of time if you're farming bile IMO. 

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-10-05 at 8:55 PM, Berzerkules said:

if you're farming bile IMO. 

if you're "farming bile" you're not a very experienced player in the first place

there is no such thing as farming bile

helminth is a resource sink

it't not supposed to incentivise you to farm anything

i never farmed any resource actively, especially not cryotic and i have 276k cryotic now

the issue is whether you can accumulate a relevant quantity of each resource when simply playing the game normally to be to use helminth at a desired level

as for cryotic - yes you can

and ultimately: DE saw the arguments to lower costs and they didn't lower them

it's too late for this discussion, the issue has become moot since the bile revision. DE is sticking to their original vision of helminth as a resource sink.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Traubenzuckr said:

if you're "farming bile" you're not a very experienced player in the first place

there is no such thing as farming bile

helminth is a resource sink

it't not supposed to incentivise you to farm anything

i never farmed any resource actively, especially not cryotic and i have 276k cryotic now

the issue is whether you can accumulate a relevant quantity of each resource when simply playing the game normally to be to use helminth at a desired level

as for cryotic - yes you can

 

I didn't know that cryotic count was the measure of experience.  Even though my account is a year newer than yours, I have 1k more hours play time and twice as many kills. I guess I'm a less experienced player than you because my cryotic count is lower than yours though.

I farmed enough cryotic to craft everything I needed and never farmed more because I find it boring and up until recently it was pointless. Guess I should have spent my time gaining more experience farming cryotic.

[Proscriptor]

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I didn't know that cryotic count was the measure of experience.  Even though my account is a year newer than yours, I have 1k more hours play time and twice as many kills. I guess I'm a less experienced player than you because my cryotic count is lower than yours though.

I farmed enough cryotic to craft everything I needed and never farmed more because I find it boring and up until recently it was pointless. Guess I should have spent my time gaining more experience farming cryotic.

if you neglect a whole basic game mode such as excavation and fail to accumulate the resource rewarded from this game mode, you won't have one of the basic resources, yes

your approach to the game has been selective, and your experience has been partial

as a consequence your stock of resources is partial - you simply lack a basic resource

this is the explanation for the situation you are experiencing

the explanation is not "cryotic cost is too high"

and to reiterate: i never farmed cryotic, and i still have 270+ k of the thing

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

16 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

if you neglect a whole basic game mode such as excavation and fail to accumulate the resource rewarded from this game mode, you won't have one of the basic resources, yes

your approach to the game has been selective, and your experience has been partial

as a consequence your stock of resources is partial - you simply lack a basic resource

this is the explanation for the situation you are experiencing

the explanation is not "cryotic cost is too high"

and to reiterate: i never farmed cryotic, and i still have 270+ k of the thing

I totally understand the point you’re trying to make here, but can I just ask why in the hell you have so much cryotic? You just really enjoy excavations? After the Sibear and Trinity Prime and the few other things you need a good bit of it for, the game doesn’t really incentivize you to get any more cryotic.

So I can understand where the other guy is coming from too, and I wouldn’t call that a “partial experience”. I’ve engaged with the game mode...just not 270k cryotic worth. Which, again, the only possible reason to have that much is that you just love excavation. Unless I’m missing something here.

[Proscriptor]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I totally understand the point you’re try to make here, but can I just ask why in the hell you have so much cryotic? You just really enjoy excavations? After the Sibear and Trinity Prime and the few other things you need a good bit of it for, the game doesn’t really incentivize you to get any more cryotic.

So I can understand where the other guy is coming from too, and I wouldn’t call that a “partial experience”. He’s engaged with the game mode...just not 270k cryotic worth. Which, again, the only possible reason to have that much is that you just love excavation. Unless I’m missing something here.

ask all the other players the same question we number in tens or hundreds of thousands

it's really nothing special

cryotic is earned by playing excavation that's it

the only way to not have cryotic is if you actively avoid excavation

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

20 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

the only way to not have cryotic is if you actively avoid excavation

That’s not really true though. The Sibear and Trinity Prime require about 40k cryotic combined. That’s a pretty hefty amount. So i have actively played excavations, but my cryotic got spent. And I’m not going to actively play more excavations unless I have a reason, because I don’t love the game mode. I guess you could call that actively avoiding now, but I’ve played it a lot already.

I have no problem admitting that I’m not a vet and I do not have the play time or the resource stockpiles that you have. But cryotic is kind of another ball game because it’s a ONLY acquired through excavations, and I can understand players not playing any more excavation than the game requires them to play. See what I’m saying?

[(PSN)PoKerZ2017]

This update still isn't out on console lol

[Kaotyke]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

This update still isn't out on console lol

PS4 and XB1 have been abandoned.

Now DE will only update for XBSX and PS5.

[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, Traubenzuckr said:

if you neglect a whole basic game mode such as excavation and fail to accumulate the resource rewarded from this game mode, you won't have one of the basic resources, yes

your approach to the game has been selective, and your experience has been partial

as a consequence your stock of resources is partial - you simply lack a basic resource

this is the explanation for the situation you are experiencing

the explanation is not "cryotic cost is too high"

and to reiterate: i never farmed cryotic, and i still have 270+ k of the thing

I didn't neglect a whole game mode, I played it just long enough to craft everything that required it. I didn't actively avoid excavation missions, DE just failed to incentive us to run excavations after we acquire the <50k to craft everything. The only reason to run excavation missions after that is if you enjoy that game mode. I don't, I find endless mobile defense missions with extra steps boring. 

Sure you can run excavation fissures or arbitrations, but you crack relics faster in other mission types and I've found excavation arbitrations inefficient because you have to traverse the entire map and it messes with spawns so you aren't getting consistent vitus drops. 

If you enjoy excavation missions that's fine. Your cryotic count does not represent everyone and it does not mean that cryotic cost as a bile resource is in a good place. I don't consider 3-4 feedings an hour a reasonable farm when the resource can only be farmed from one game mode and has no other use besides helminth food. Especially when thermal sludge is in the same category and you can farm ~500 in 15 minutes just flying around Orb Vallis doing nothing but casting crush on Itzal. If you did that for an hour you could feed helminth ~40 times compared to 3-4 times you would get from the same amount of time running excavations. 

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-10-05 at 11:26 PM, Berzerkules said:

I didn't neglect a whole game mode, I played it just long enough to crafted everything that required it.

this just isn't the nature of warframe

  

On 2020-10-05 at 10:26 PM, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

That’s not really true though. The Sibear and Trinity Prime require about 40k cryotic combined. That’s a pretty hefty amount. So i have actively played excavations, but my cryotic got spent. And I’m not going to actively play more excavations unless I have a reason, because I don’t love the game mode. I guess you could call that actively avoiding now, but I’ve played it a lot already.

I have no problem admitting that I’m not a vet and I do not have the play time or the resource stockpiles that you have. But cryotic is kind of another ball game because it’s a ONLY acquired through excavations, and I can understand players not playing any more excavation than the game requires them to play. See what I’m saying?

what you describe here is actively avoiding excavation after building sibear and trinity prime. 

[White_Matter]

Life is tough as a Vet. Always has been. Always will be.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Traubenzuckr said:

this just isn't the nature of warframe

For me it is. I farm resources if I need them to craft something then I go back to playing what I enjoy.

I don't think anyone can dictate "the nature of warframe" since everyone plays the game the way they enjoy it. 

 

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

12 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

this just isn't the nature of warframe

Warframe is a looter at its core, and there is no loot incentive to play excavations beyond what is required to craft stuff. So unless you care to elaborate on what you think the nature of Warframe is, I will have to respectfully disagree.

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-10-05 at 11:41 PM, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Warframe is a looter at its core, and there is no loot incentive to play excavations beyond what is required to craft stuff. So unless you care to elaborate on what you think the nature of Warframe is, I will have to respectfully disagree.

warframe is a farming simulator you play everything over and over again

helminth is the reward for engaging in this type of gameplay

 

  

On 2020-10-05 at 11:41 PM, Berzerkules said:

For me it is. I farm resources if I need them to craft something then I go back to playing what I enjoy.

I don't think anyone can dictate "the nature of warframe" since everyone plays the game the way they enjoy it. 

 

that clearly singles you out as not someone who the helminth system is aimed at

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

10 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

warframe is a farming simulator you play everything over and over again

helminth is the reward for engaging in this type of gameplay

Fair enough, but my final counter to this would be that excavations are the only game mode with a unique resource tied exclusively to them. Everything else is just play missions, get resources. 

[Berzerkules]

17 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

that clearly singles you out as not someone who the helminth system is aimed at

I max ranked helminth in the first day it was possible. I have added helminth abilities to all but 5 frames, most of them I have several subsumed abilities and in some cases I have multiple copies of the same frame or I buy the extra 3 configs on frames to test different builds. I have 5 frames left to subsume. I am still not lacking resources and I've had had no problems with with feeding my helminth. 

I don't know how you can assume that the helminth system was designed for me. You have no idea how I play this game besides the fact that I hate excavation missions and I don't waste my time farm recourses I have no need for. 

Cryotic is a pointless resource to farm. There is absolutely no reason to play excavation missions after you have crafted everything. The cost vs. play time is absurd when compared to other resources. I have not needed  to use any cryotic because I have plenty of other resources in the bile category. Just because I have no problem with bile does not mean that it is is a good place. 

 

[Proscriptor]

On 2020-10-05 at 11:59 PM, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Fair enough, but my final counter to this would be that excavations are the only game mode with a unique resource tied exclusively to them. Everything else is just play missions, get resources. 

yeah excavation is unique in that regard but it's also highly rewarding to play excav fissure for prime loot, as well as arbitration excav (the easiest arbitration with fairly fast rotation rewards is infested excav arbi)

excavation is the functional precursor to disruption, it was meant to be a high risk - high reward game mode where you can get fast rotations if you're efficient, but if you don't do it quite right, it punishes you with inefficiency and frustration (remember when excavators had fixed small health pools before scaling objective health)

arguably, excavation does successfully fill this niche to this day, as rewards from it are pretty good

On 2020-10-06 at 12:06 AM, Berzerkules said:

I max ranked helminth in the first day it was possible. I have added helminth abilities to all but 5 frames, most of them I have several subsumed abilities and in some cases I have multiple copies of the same frame or I buy the extra 3 configs on frames to test different builds. I have 5 frames left to subsume. I am still not lacking resources and I've had had no problems with with feeding my helminth. 

I don't know how you can assume that the helminth system was designed for me. You have no idea how I play this game besides the fact that I hate excavation missions and I don't waste my time farm recourses I have no need for. 

 

you aren't exactly nudging DE in the direction of lowering cryotic feeding costs with this post :)

[Berzerkules]

9 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

you aren't exactly nudging DE in the direction of lowering cryotic feeding costs with this post :)

I don't exactly play the game like everyone else. Basing the cost of feeding the helminth off of my playing habits would make no sense. I get temp banned for getting too many resources in solo runs when I'm not trying to farm anything. That being said, I think cryotic feeding costs are unbalanced compared to other resources. Just playing the game like I normally do I can passively farm bile about 10x faster than an organized cryotic farming squad. 

There is no efficient way to farm cryotic as a source of bile. There should be. By making the feeding cost so high all DE has done is make an already abandoned game mode even more irrelevant. 

[Proscriptor]

9k cryotic an less than 1h is good enough, since you can get other rewards too like prime loot

you don't have to feed cryotic to helminth if you don't like it

game balance =/= equal cost efficiency for all resources