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On 2020-10-07 at 5:46 AM, deyuaru said:

prime loot isn't everything, and disruption exists (and way faster, and also does not induce sleepiness as well).

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P.S. : Get yourself to MR29, then we'll continue this discussion.

si6eiz83vfl51.png?width=2560&format=png&

 

(Idk if you were prefering to me but lol)

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14 hours ago, TheFinalEpic said:

si6eiz83vfl51.png?width=2560&format=png&

 

(Idk if you were prefering to me but lol)

nope, i'm not referring to you. i meant the person who kept defending about cryotic (since the person in question, loves to waste their time on excavation, and not actually raising their MR)

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On 2020-10-07 at 2:46 PM, deyuaru said:

prime loot isn't everything, and disruption exists (and way faster, and also does not induce sleepiness as well).

----

P.S. : Get yourself to MR29, then we'll continue this discussion.

the discussion is over, cryotic costs weren't lowered and they'll never be lowered

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On 2020-09-30 at 7:28 AM, Berzerkules said:

I do agree that the helminth system provides a needed resource dump for vets and experienced players, but I think the Cryotic is a little much.

If I remember correctly you get 200 cryotic per drill and each one takes 1:30. That's 8000/hour if you have no down time in between drills. Not even 3 feedings per hour. You could probably double that with an organized squad, but then it's just over 5 feedings per hour of play time. I think those numbers are with a booster. I pretty much never run excavation missions. I don't need any and the time invested vs. reward is lacking imo. 

I'm currently 2h into a solo SP Mot survival just testing a helminth build and I'm up 100+ Argon Crystals. For bile farming that's more that 3x as efficient as Cryotic farming. An organized squad would do even better. They could farm Steel Essence, Ferrite and Control Modules for Kuva, Oxides and Synthetics at the same time. The only positive I see for Cryotic is that it is a permanent resource unlike Argon Crystals. 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, and Cryotic is totally fine. For me it's easier to just passively farm bile, oxides, synthetics, steel essence and relics in The Void while I test builds. It just seems like the time invested to Cryotic farm is wasted in comparison to other bile farms. 

 

 

On 2020-09-30 at 8:12 PM, mac10smg--Toa_of_Green said:

You actually don't remember correctly...because it's WAY worse than this.

It's 100 cryotic with one excavator taking 1:40; so 1 second for 1 cryoitc.

That's 3,600/hour. Or exacly ONE feeding, with some change.

 

And people still think the cryotic farm is perfectly fine for some reason...

 

On 2020-10-05 at 6:06 PM, Berzerkules said:

I max ranked helminth in the first day it was possible. I have added helminth abilities to all but 5 frames, most of them I have several subsumed abilities and in some cases I have multiple copies of the same frame or I buy the extra 3 configs on frames to test different builds. I have 5 frames left to subsume. I am still not lacking resources and I've had had no problems with with feeding my helminth. 

I don't know how you can assume that the helminth system was designed for me. You have no idea how I play this game besides the fact that I hate excavation missions and I don't waste my time farm recourses I have no need for. 

Cryotic is a pointless resource to farm. There is absolutely no reason to play excavation missions after you have crafted everything. The cost vs. play time is absurd when compared to other resources. I have not needed  to use any cryotic because I have plenty of other resources in the bile category. Just because I have no problem with bile does not mean that it is is a good place. 

 

I'm not sure what the argument is here that you THINK you have...

Cryotic is not THE resource for Helminth's Bile.  It is A resource, but not the SOLE resource.

It is likely INTENTIONALLY inefficient to use.  It's just there to SUPPLEMENT, not to get you all the way to Rank 10.

I've been playing for a few years... I don't bother chasing MR much.  Just hit MR25 a few weeks ago, actually.  And that's with me actively playing daily AND streaming WF.

I have 8k Cryotic.  I've HAD 8k Cryotic for going on 4 months now.  I just never really play Excavations...though they are great for relics and whatnot.

I still haven't built the Sibear.  Just don't care to farm cryotic.

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Do you know what rank MY Helminth is, INCLUDING skipping feeding it for like a week?  Rank 8.5.   That's barely me trying...and with me feeding it foods it's not interested in half the time just because I -can-. 

To imply that somehow Cryotic is "too much" when a "filthy casual" such as myself can breeze through it without issue OR cryotic is absurd.  

Cryo is fine where it's at, and...according to YOUR post, so is every other resource since you've already maxed its rank. Just don't use Cryotic :/ Simple.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Cryotic is not THE resource for Helminth's Bile.  It is A resource, but not the SOLE resource.

The problem is that it isn't even good as a backup resource, it literally is so bad of an exchange rate that no sane person would consider using it even out of desperation.

It is faster to go to the Void and farm Argon Crystals while they are red arrow'd than to get that much Cryotic for even one green arrow feeding.

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7 minutes ago, Aldain said:

The problem is that it isn't even good as a backup resource, it literally is so bad of an exchange rate that no sane person would consider using it even out of desperation.

It is faster to go to the Void and farm Argon Crystals while they are red arrow'd than to get that much Cryotic for even one green arrow feeding.

So, what you're effectively admitting then is that this is a non-issue because there's already an in-game solution that's easy to utilize....

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

So, what you're effectively admitting then is that this is a non-issue because there's already an in-game solution that's easy to utilize....

I mean, to some extent yes.

But I'm also questioning the applause of a purposely bad option being a good thing.

If somebody told me "You can either have a slice of cake or shoot yourself in the foot with an arrow" and I saw people applaud the fact that getting the option to put a hole in my foot is a good thing I'd have to question the sanity of people who think a bad option that nobody would ever take is a good thing.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Cryo is fine where it's at, and...according to YOUR post, so is every other resource since you've already maxed its rank. Just don't use Cryotic :/ Simple.

No. Cryotic is not fine. Bile as a whole is not fine. Lets look at a few of the resources in the Bile category. 

Javlock Capacitor - A total of 6 are required to craft the Javok and nothing else. Only drops from Prosecutors on the Grineer shipyard tile set. Prosecutors do not spawn often or in high numbers. This is not a viable renewable source of bile. There is no reason this resource should exists. Literally anything else could be use to craft the Javlok.

Somatic Fibers - Only dropped by Domolishers on a single node of the starchart Apollo, Lua. Only used to craft Lua lens. Again, this resource is not a viable renewable source of bile, could be replace with literally any other resource and most likely should not exist. 

Diluted Thermia - An event resource that you can't farm on a regular basis is most definitely not a viable renewable source of bile. There is no reason to run the event after you got everything from it. To get one Diluted thermia you need to use the same canister to close 4 thermal vents or have a squad of 4 close one vent. This is even worse that cryotic as helminth food. 

Antiserum Injector Fragment - Only drops from Infested Salvage mission on Oestrus, Eris. Another resource that drops in a single location. The only use for this resource is to craft an Antiserum Injector. Those were used in raids. This is a long forgotten resource. 

Argon Crystals - Easy to farm but they only last 24 hours. 

Cryotic - Drops from one mission type. Best case scenario you can get 3 feedings per hour in an organized group this is not a viable renewable source of bile. 

 

That's half of the resources in the bile category and none of them are a particularly good source of bile, Argon Crystals being the best option but you can't stash them for future use. 

 

Just because I maxed my helminth does not mean I'm done feeding my Helminth. It's a constant process of adding and removing subsume abilities while I test builds on the almost 50 frames we have. I will always need more bile. 

 

 

 

Edited by Berzerkules
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13 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Just because I maxed my helminth does not mean I'm done feeding my Helminth. It's a constant process of adding and removing subsume abilities while I test builds on the almost 50 frames we have. I will always need more bile. 

after reading this, de is putting their skates on to make it on time to ease bile feeding for you so can do 10-20 infusions a day every day of the week, without breaking a sweat

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12 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

after reading this, de is putting their skates on to make it on time to ease bile feeding for you so can do 10-20 infusions a day every day of the week, without breaking a sweat

I'm looking at the helminth system as a whole and bile is not in the best place compared to the other categories. This does not just effect me, but every player in the game. I can point out the flaws while other people will defend DE no matter what. That's fine. You do you and I'll do me. Have a good day sir/ma'am.

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feeding in the bile category is more difficult, and the resources are more obscure so that leveling and using the helminth system would not be nearly free but have some element of choice and consequence attached (albeit in token form at this point)

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16 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

No. Cryotic is not fine. Bile as a whole is not fine. Lets look at a few of the resources in the Bile category. 

Javlock Capacitor - A total of 6 are required to craft the Javok and nothing else. Only drops from Prosecutors on the Grineer shipyard tile set. Prosecutors do not spawn often or in high numbers. This is not a viable renewable source of bile. There is no reason this resource should exists. Literally anything else could be use to craft the Javlok.

Somatic Fibers - Only dropped by Domolishers on a single node of the starchart Apollo, Lua. Only used to craft Lua lens. Again, this resource is not a viable renewable source of bile, could be replace with literally any other resource and most likely should not exist. 

Diluted Thermia - An event resource that you can't farm on a regular basis is most definitely not a viable renewable source of bile. There is no reason to run the event after you got everything from it. To get one Diluted thermia you need to use the same canister to close 4 thermal vents or have a squad of 4 close one vent. This is even worse that cryotic as helminth food. 

Antiserum Injector Fragment - Only drops from Infested Salvage mission on Oestrus, Eris. Another resource that drops in a single location. The only use for this resource is to craft an Antiserum Injector. Those were used in raids. This is a long forgotten resource. 

Argon Crystals - Easy to farm but they only last 24 hours. 

Cryotic - Drops from one mission type. Best case scenario you can get 3 feedings per hour in an organized group this is not a viable renewable source of bile. 

 

That's half of the resources in the bile category and none of them are a particularly good source of bile, Argon Crystals being the best option but you can't stash them for future use. 

 

Just because I maxed my helminth does not mean I'm done feeding my Helminth. It's a constant process of adding and removing subsume abilities while I test builds on the almost 50 frames we have. I will always need more bile. 

 

 

 

You seem to be under some misunderstanding that utilizing the Helminth system should be "easy".

That is not, nor has it ever been, the case.

The fact that you've maxed it, and the fact that I've got MOST of my needed frames subsumed AND got it to rank 8, almost 9, without even TRYING, is PROOF it's fine where it's at.

Cryotic is not NEEDED.  That's the POINT.

I also don't use Titanium because it's expensive.  I don't use ALOT of resources because they're expensive.   I use the crap I DON'T need, and save what I do.  And I'm STILL where I am.

It's not broken, you're just impatient.... and you want to HAVE your Cryotic and feed it, too, and that isn't how this works.

 

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17 hours ago, Aldain said:

I mean, to some extent yes.

But I'm also questioning the applause of a purposely bad option being a good thing.

If somebody told me "You can either have a slice of cake or shoot yourself in the foot with an arrow" and I saw people applaud the fact that getting the option to put a hole in my foot is a good thing I'd have to question the sanity of people who think a bad option that nobody would ever take is a good thing.

Every option doesn't have to be a "best" option, or even a good one.

Just like you CAN buy Relic Packs and Mod Packs for plat, you CAN use useless mods on builds, etc...  

You also CAN use less-than-ideal resources for the Helminth.  By no means MUST you do so, however.

If using said resource is "bad", then just use one of the other, like, 9 resources on Bile.  Problem solved :/  I don't see how this is an issue.

No one is "praising" DE for including Cryotic.  We're just saying it doesn't matter that they DID because we don't have to use it if we don't want.


---


If I have a full pack of colored pencils and a piece of blue paper... you might argue "Well, why did they give us a BLUE pencil?  You can barely see it! It's bad! No one should ever use it!" etc etc...

...meanwhile, I just use the other 10 colors with no issues :/   

So again, what's the problem?

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2 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

feeding in the bile category is more difficult, and the resources are more obscure so that leveling and using the helminth system would not be nearly free but have some element of choice and consequence attached (albeit in token form at this point)

As it should.

I feel like the REAL issue people seem to have is with "consequence" in the first place.  They seem to imply it shouldn't exist, and their choices should be free of any issues... but that would be terrible game design --- ESPECIALLY in a F2P.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Every option doesn't have to be a "best" option, or even a good one.

But why?

Just because? Because having a bad option makes other things better by comparison?

Why have a useless option in the first place? What's the point of putting something so outrageously useless that it might as well not be there in the first place?

Making a dirt road that takes an hour longer to get to your destination than a four lane highway serves no purpose, it is a waste of both the time of the ones who made the road and anyone who would be stupid enough to drive on it.

Pointless wastes of time benefit nobody.

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it isn't "outrageously useless"

it is what it is

if you want to speed up bile feeding when you have a red arrow on more cost efficient resources you can indulge yourself by spending 3000 cryotic, since as a very experienced player, you have piles of that thing

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15 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

it isn't "outrageously useless"

it is what it is

if you want to speed up bile feeding when you have a red arrow on more cost efficient resources you can indulge yourself by spending 3000 cryotic, since as a very experienced player, you have piles of that thing

BINGO!  Thank you! xD

Like all things in Warframe, it's just another -option-.  That's not a bad thing.

It may not be YOUR option, and that's fine.   The dude earlier in the thread with 200k Cryotic might LOVE this option.  

To each Tenno their own.  But it IS there IF you want to use it.

Why should we only have "best" options?  There's no variety, and too specific a farm at that point.

Why not have everything JUST cost Argon, so all endgame players can spend eternity farming in the void?  Sound like fun? No?  Case in point..

Variety is the spice of life...and games.

 

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