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when does locking most mods behind something with a 0.2% drop chance a good idea?


Timothy_Mark

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after nearly 2 weeks of doing isolation vaults i barely got any necramech mods except 3, 2 being duplicates which is necramech shielding, and the other being slip stream, but THATS IT, and just to think that all this time i thought i could get something like necramech armor, or hydraulics is just a dream that would never come true, and i had to buy necramech armor, from another player, but then again alot of people will say its easy to earn plat, but then again platinum just doesnt come from nowhere, it comes from people buying platinum and that platinum being traded in with other players, so isnt that kinda making these mods paywall locked or luck on your side? why the actual hell does necramechs have a 10% chance to drop a mech and another 10% chance to give a specific mod, thats just absurd as hell, a second step drop chance is just absurd and ridiculous, anyone who thinks thats a good idea needs to really put themselves into a players point of view and make them feel whats it like to suffer, hell that last dev stream with rebecca joking about the balance saying "thats why helminth exist because you can just replace that bad ability with a good one!" which only shows the meh balancing on tuning warframe ability kits, i wonder if they'll maybe say "oh why grind to get a necramech mod if you can just buy it off another player" yeah same aura as if your homeless just buy a house, i mean c'mon dont be like that theres a better way to fix this and not make people like me into very angry and disappointed people. 

 

and heres a couple of easy solutions to really fix this

option one: remove the 2 step drop chance and actually increase the chances of getting those necramech mods from 0.2% to 5% or 7%, that would do wonders actually.

option two: just replace the relics in isolation vaults with necramech mods, i mean why the hell not? thats what isolation vaults are for right? getting rare resources and mech parts, so why not make those mods available from those bounties right? it should be worth something than spending days just to get nothing.

 

option three which i think would be awesome: make necramech mods purchasable from father, i mean he built the blasted mechs so why not make him sell the mods that give em power, or something really nice is also to make the necraloid syndicate have a rotating offerings system like nightwave where 4 different necramech mods are shifted every 24 hours, that would be soo nice

 

 but you know what thats just too good for balancing wise, even tho the luck of getting things like that are non existent, even tho necramechs have amazing potential and not be fodder content like all the mesa, saryn, and chroma mains are saying, and the fact we can get some amazing things, it just seems to good to be true, but eh what are you opinions on this? for me im just soo frustrating, if you can make classic skins equippable on prime warframes, if you can make amazing as heck skins and weapons, then bloody hell fixing the drop chances of necramech mods shouldn't be that hard. 

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Or if you think that's too specific: 

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/21-general/

Posting in general discussion is preaching to the choir. 

PMi'ng or DM'ing Support/Community Management staff is talking to the wrong people too, as they are community managers, not development team. 

They have threads for feedback on everything necramech, where they are reading and taking into account every reply, even if they don't end up acting on all the feedback, and there is also general where you can post if you think it doesn't fit that thread. 

Also megathreads are for staff to pull together a main thread when a bunch of people are making topics about the same thing. There already is a megathread for necramechs, we don't need another man. 

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I know this is not the point of the thread, but they are likely to increase drop chance later like they did with railjack avionics, so now everyone can farm void hole which was unobtainable in the similar fashion. Meanwhile mod drop booster really helps. I've got it twice since deimos release from sorties and got like a lot of mods, but not the rare ones, just copper and silver.

You are right of course. The only rare mods that i have i've bought from shop for syndicate rep.

On the other hand, there are not a lot of places where necramech is usable, it's like whatever, not like i'm going to actively use necramech anytime soon anyway, so for me personally it's not a big deal.

Try to look at this from the positive side: if you get a rare mod you can potentially sell it for a good plat.

I personally think it would be better if DE would simply made those mods available in the shop for plat. Some necramech pack or something. But i assume they don't want a backlash that would appear if they are selling unobtainable mods in shop.

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it gives you something to do, atleast. otherwise you wouldn't have something to do.

as long as the content that we repeat is enjoyable, i don't mind. the second half of Iso Vaults i even quite like, but the first half is pretty dull.
the more enjoyable it is to play, the more okay i am with playing it a lot.

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Terrible drop rates, RNG, nested syndicate grinds and time gating are literally the only methods DE knows how to employ to add replay value to their paper thin content updates. 

The content itself can be beaten, cleared and forgotten about in 10 minutes. Its the asian, mobile, gatcha systems that artificially add longevity.

Personally i would like to see ONE single update that contains a meaty chunk of content that isnt padded out with mobile junk or isnt copypasta. Just one. thats all i ask. 

Also disagree with the people suggesting that platinum value somehow makes this ok. The trading system and economy in this game is awful and I would never entertain the idea of using a RMT system where the 'House' directly controls the value of items and currency. It's ridiculous. 

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what annoys me is that DE hotfixed no less than 3 TIMES today over the next prime, but still haven't made Necramech Mods available via Loid on console. literally, I'm only missing the gold ones, and after doing god knows how many Iso Vaults for Cortege parts, I'd rather not go back until the second Mech is added, assuming that's where it's parts will be.

I get that we need those rare drops as something to aim for an be excited when we luck out and get them, but some of the drop chances really are just laughable. you could put it at 5% and it would be much better, but still something genuinely rare.

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Yeah after seeing the drop rates, and the chances
40 minutes for a zero point two chance? (considering only 10% chance to even roll for a mod)
3 mechs at tier 3, actually equals 0.592% (EVEN LESS for gold 0.2% mods on other tiers because fewer mechs)

so 1 out of 179 runs of 40 mins each, will drop a necramech streamline. That's like 112 hours of grind.

So yeah seeing the stupidly insane drop chances, I decided it's not worth the effort. Either DE does something to fix this, or I don't touch mech mods at all.
I just farmed till i got all 3 cortege parts, and never looked back.
Ofc, mod booster and nekros should quarter that grind, but on the ground, in the game, the abysmal chances even with both these things, is extremely disheartening, and absolute burnout fuel.

So skip it for sanity. And put the pressure on DE.
 

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On the weekend that Baro brought the mod drop chance booster I farmed isolation vaults for the most of it and the only gold mod I got was necramech intensify. At this point I've given up on farming streamline because it's a waste of time and my necramech is strong enough on the steel path bounty.

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I'm pretty much in the same boat. Once I looked at the dropchances I was like:"Nah, DE. You're drunk again." I'm not farming (or buying for current prices) a 0.2% mod for something that right now has only little more value to me personally than K-Drives - and I still farmed all of the K-Drive mods because there was a fix end goal through standing and you could knock out the board mastery at the same time.

I'm not even mad or anything. I just already mentally checked out of the idea of Necramechs being anything more than another oddity for mastery. You keep doing you, DE.

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0.2% drop chance only makes sense for frequently encountered enemies.

Sentients, Necramechs, Bursas are not good examples of frequently encountered enemies.

So like it's OK for Condition Overload to have a 0.02% drop chance when it drops from Butchers... one of the most frequently encountered Grineer units!

But Necramech mods, Tempo Royale (Isolator Bursa), Broken War parts, Vengeful Revenant? It makes absolutely no sense to put these at insane low drop rates in such rarely encountered enemies. Why would you do this to players? This doesn't help players like Warframes... it helps drive players crazy and hate DE and Warframe. Granted, some of those players will just buy platinum to  buy these things from other players (or DE). I don't know... maybe mistreating the entire playerbase will squeeze a little bit of microtransaction. The cost is a forum of angry player posts (and the inevitable "just farm for Braton Prime parts in boring relic missions and *buy* the thing you want" responses).

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2 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Terrible drop rates, RNG, nested syndicate grinds and time gating are literally the only methods DE knows how to employ to add replay value to their paper thin content updates. 

The content itself can be beaten, cleared and forgotten about in 10 minutes. Its the asian, mobile, gatcha systems that artificially add longevity.

Personally i would like to see ONE single update that contains a meaty chunk of content that isnt padded out with mobile junk or isnt copypasta. Just one. thats all i ask. 

Also disagree with the people suggesting that platinum value somehow makes this ok. The trading system and economy in this game is awful and I would never entertain the idea of using a RMT system where the 'House' directly controls the value of items and currency. It's ridiculous. 

As if other games don't do this with layers of RNG with terrible drop rates and rarity tier as their "meaty chunk of content"

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22 minutes ago, 844448 said:

As if other games don't do this with layers of RNG with terrible drop rates and rarity tier as their "meaty chunk of content"

I like the Diablo 3 way of handling ultra rare stuff. Diablo 3 has these item tiers that you let you enjoy the items while still feeling like you're progressing!

You can draw analogies to these tiers to like how games used to be released.... demo, full version, collector edition... whatever.

  • Legendary -- Common drop! It's a demo item (helps you try and see if you like this gear).
  • Ancient Legendary -- Rarer drop! It's the full version item sporting 30% higher attributes. You use the demo item in the game until you find this bad boy.
  • Primal Ancient Legendary -- Ultra rare! This is the synonym of the 0.2% drop rate Necramech mods. It's a perfectly rolled version of Ancient Legendaries (no RNG attributes). It's really cool to have a Primal Ancient Legendary item. It's a "WOW AWESOME" item if you get a nice roll. It's not mandatory to have this since a well rolled Ancient Legendary can roll with similar/same stats. Think of it like a collector item or like an autographed version of the full version game box with optical media made from gold or other long-lasting optical materials. Essentially the same as the full version though!

So Warframe could definitely do this with mods. They kinda do this with flawed/damaged mods... I don't think we should be starting these tiers at "flawed" or "damaged." But yeah... If there's a 10% chance to get a "flawed" Necramech Streamline, that's something... right? You can actually play with the mod while you enjoy the game until you one day you get the "normal" version.

EDIT: It's beside the point, but to elaborate on Primal Ancients in Diablo 3. The item can only have so many attributes... these are still chosen randomly (so a "roll"). But Primal Ancients guarantee these to be maxed attributes (or minimal if it's a negative attribute). So no randomness there...

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14 minutes ago, nslay said:

So like it's OK for Condition Overload to have a 0.02% drop chance when it drops from Butchers... one of the most frequently encountered Grineer units!

And yet despite years of fighting butchers my first one only dropped during a random bounty on Deimos with no fanfare.

God I hate RNG.

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4 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Personally i would like to see ONE single update that contains a meaty chunk of content that isnt padded out with mobile junk or isnt copypasta. Just one. thats all i ask. 

i don't think 'hard' to get things is bad here - otherwise every Update would need to have like 40 new Weapons and 6 new Warframes or something like that in order to have even like a months' worth of stuff to do.

having everything painted in Timers or what we do in __ content being slightly different versions of what we've already done 100,000 times over many years, that would be nice though, yes.

 

but i would then even be almost asking for lowish Chance stuff to be what occupies those perceived time played ranges - but based on the premise of assuming that some new Mission would be something significantly different from what we have seen before, and is something that is always pushing the Players to be on their toes to not only complete but push for optional Objectives - and not doing any of this by having Objective tasks that are just standing around waiting in various forms. 
and in such a scenario of new things being very different from what we've done in the past, i would even be happy one could say to have lowish Chance stuff that i'm looking for, since it gives me the reason to play __ a lot going forward. if it's something unique and different like that i would enjoy playing it even if there were no Rewards, but having stuff i also want does make it even better.

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. 2% is normal and fine if it's on like an infested charger and not an enemy you kill 5 an hour.

 

It doesn't matter much now though necramechs are currently just for fun and not required for any content.  I'm betting whatever new content they make for them the drop tables will get better.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Hypernaut1:

there has got to be SOMETHING rare in this game. 

Yes and no. If something is required to make a thing usable. Like mods for the Necramech, they shouldn't be rare. Condition Overload is common enough, even with its low drop chance it drops in many Stephano Fissure runs at least once.

While rare things should exist, that should be reserved to some rare cosmetic items that don't have a large impact on gameplay.

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You kind answered yourself there bud,

Its an indirect paywall and player active count enabler - its not for the benefit of players its for the benefit of the developers to keep you playing while they work on other stuff.

 

Once they no longer see large transactions or farming attempts for those mods they will likely make them easier to acquire by some mechanism.

They already made many of the mods obtainable from loid.

 

I expect when they actually finish the rest of the Deimos update there will be bounties or other enemies where the drop is more common.

I dont have most of the mods, and i am not going to bother cause i am not too badly affected by FOMO.

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In the case of the necramechs? It was a horrible idea to make every mod this rare. These necramechs are more or less the k-drives for deimos so every mod should be in the shop. Or at least most of them. But honestly I'm kinda tired of this mod collecting. Just give us some new system. Or make them modular. Anything but an other mod collecting marathon.

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I started the topic...'The Family Award Should've Been A Necramech Mod"....while it was a tongue-in-cheek-stab at the joke-of-the-award given when reaching Level Five, it was also a poke at just how pathetic the system is on getting the Mech Mods...

They put out and add basically...Another Playable Character for the most part is pretty fun and cool to mess with. However....it's the only one that has it's Mods drop on a specific Place, Mode, Enemy with a drop chance as equal or worse than Rare Prime Parts. You cannot get them anywhere else, no other maps, modes, places, vendors...Except the Trading Zone where basic Mods will cost more than a complete Prime Frame...which one needs to do what...Buy Plat with real money....

We're like everyone else...having the same 4-6 Mods that don't really help much and we haven't put a potato in ours for the simple reason...No Mods so why Level-up and invest time? We've ran Tier 3 vaults nearly 60+ Times, Tier 2 about 20 times and Tier 1 15 times and it got to the point where frustration and being downright annoyed started to set in so we haven't been back in a week....instead we've gone back to Plains and Fortuna, doing Dark Sectors for Loots, some Fissures and went back getting another Kuva weapon and having fun again...until they change how getting the Mech Mods and making Loid more useful not going back....no reason to 

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I saw what I needed to do to get the Necramech initially.

I immediately uninstalled the game.

LMFAO

No, but jokes aside, I really don't like these drop chances, but I wouldn't be surprised if they buffed these should the community scream enough.

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18 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

Or if you think that's too specific: 

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/21-general/

Posting in general discussion is preaching to the choir. 

PMi'ng or DM'ing Support/Community Management staff is talking to the wrong people too, as they are community managers, not development team. 

They have threads for feedback on everything necramech, where they are reading and taking into account every reply, even if they don't end up acting on all the feedback, and there is also general where you can post if you think it doesn't fit that thread. 

Also megathreads are for staff to pull together a main thread when a bunch of people are making topics about the same thing. There already is a megathread for necramechs, we don't need another man. 

aight ill do that 

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