Please give us a way to choose what Kuva weapon a Lich spawns with

[(PSN)Maunstre]

24 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Someone recently reminded me that for all my *@##$ing about the Cephalon Simaris grind, that's still under my control. If I want Titania, that's 125K Simaris Standing. Yes, that's a LOT of standing, but it's a fixed value. I'm not reliant on a mission randomly giving me 25K or giving me nothing whatsoever. That actually made me feel a lot better about the grind.

I appreciate your optimism with the weapon-trade system. I'm hopeful that we do see it. If DE just needs an "excuse" of sorts to give it to us, the Corpus Liches would certainly be the perfect vehicle if nothing else.

Also, this point you made is really salient, and it's one I think a lot of people protesting about suggesting to make grinds better miss completely; there is a world of difference between a grind that gives random progress to completion versus a guaranteed long grind with a fixed / controlled progression. In the RNG case, you will feel slighted or gamed against with inconsistent progress - double if you're extra salty about your experience and someone else got better results than you in that same grind. It encourages a lot of either sour grapes or sunk cost rationalisation. Most people protesting against change for the better are people who cling to sunk costs, and either don't realise it or just don't want to admit it, and take any betterment to a system to be a personal attack on the worth of the time they spent playing by the system's original rules. Meanwhile, self-controlled grind is entirely on you, the player. However long it takes is in your hands only, not a system you can't see or influence and can only assume DE is being honest about. The Simaris grind is one I'm doing right now too, and the fact that I can control that grind is one I appreciate.

And, yeah, I think you're right on Lich trading, its most lucrative window has come and gone, when weapons were a surprise and Ephemera was 5% (and, more importantly, Ephemera was rare and new, we're all but drowning in them now. Remember when Ephemera was "to be a show of player skill rather than chance, and would never be sold as a cosmetic"?). Even if we got this system improved with any means to guarantee a weapon, the Lich trading system likely wouldn't be impacted that much. People who want to buy Liches will still buy Liches. I may be fed up with the RNG involved with weapons, but by no means would it ever push me to pay plat to get someone else's Lich.

[PollexMessier]

There are a plethera of things in the game that are significantly harder and more time consuming to get than any specific litch weapon.
Braton and lato vandal took me MONTHS to get grinding hours a day
I'm incredibly glad I got the spectra vandal on it's initial release as an event reward because rare railjack caches really???????
Shedu if you didn't participate scarlet spear (hopefully it becomes an annual event)
Probably pennant and quellor not even counting the grind to get into railjack to begin with
War or broken war if you want to have both at the same time. Even through grinding absolutely everything from scarlet spear and then some, getting 5 full shedu sets total, I didn't get one single war blade drop, and you need two. It might as well be platinum exclusive.
Every syndicate arcweapon.
Equinox
Athodai and plague zaws are currently in a state of exclusivity to those that were active when they were available, as their current availability is tbd. Since they're not grindable at all currently these probably shouldn't count but worth mentioning anyways.
Even paracesis.

The litch weapons are quite powerful by comparison to most of those and any competent player can get them in a day. Probably completely cap out the element bonus of one in the amount of time it would take them to get some of these other weapons. Compared to some of the more severe rng issues with this game I think this one in particular isn't too pressing. At least they cared enough about player feedback on them to add hold to confirm on the larvae mercy because I must've reflex mercied at least 10 of the bastards before seeing what their weapon was, before that change was implemented.

My advice on cycling the weapon quickly is bring a hardcore crowd clearer, especially one that can kill through walls like Equinox, Ember, or Saryn (depending on the element you want). Ember's 4 is line of sight but seems to have much more lenience on that than other LoS abilities, as I've pretty frequently killed enemies behind obstacles other LoS abilities wouldn't have been able to with it. Run through exterminate on sedna, when the lights flicker kill every enemy you can find as fast as possible for the best chance at the larvae spawning. I've found they spawn less consistently If I'm slow at taking out enemies or leave some behind (This is why you want exterminate and not capture, capture enemy spawns are all over the place while exterminate enemies only spawn in front of you and you get a convenient marker that helps you not miss any). if the larvae dosn't have the one you want abort immediately and repeat the mission. you can do each attempt in under a minute with the right setup once you get efficient at it and then the rng dosn't feel so bad. Once you get good at it, it might take an hour tops to get the weapon you want to roll.

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Shedu if you didn't participate scarlet spear (hopefully it becomes an annual event)
Probably pennant and quellor not even counting the grind to get into railjack to begin with

I know that's not the point, but the parts for all of these are tradable. I know, because that's how I got them :) This goes back to my old "Warframe is not a free game, but a paid game with a free demo" argument - a lot of grinds in Warframe exist to waste the time of F2P folks, where P2W folks can just buy them. Liches aren't quite in the same category since Liches with 60% weapons are rare, but that kind of doesn't matter with Valence fusion. In fact, it's probably cheaper to buy Liches with low-percentage weapons a bunch of times.

 

15 hours ago, (PS4)Maunstre said:

And, yeah, I think you're right on Lich trading, its most lucrative window has come and gone, when weapons were a surprise and Ephemera was 5% (and, more importantly, Ephemera was rare and new, we're all but drowning in them now. Remember when Ephemera was "to be a show of player skill rather than chance, and would never be sold as a cosmetic"?). Even if we got this system improved with any means to guarantee a weapon, the Lich trading system likely wouldn't be impacted that much. People who want to buy Liches will still buy Liches. I may be fed up with the RNG involved with weapons, but by no means would it ever push me to pay plat to get someone else's Lich.

Yeah, Lich Trading was the most desirable when the only way to get a 60% weapon was to randomly roll one. With the ability to roll only once per Lich and then having to kill that Lich to get another roll, that basically meant most of us were never going to see one. It's what DE intended, because that's how games like The Division and Diablo and all the other loot grinders worked. You grind raid bosses in the hopes of god rolls that never come. Yeah, turns out the Warframe playerbase isn't the same people who play those games, because DE's attempt to be more like them failed miserably. Once Valance Fusion came out, Lich weapons with high rolls lost their value overnight. Considering how long it took Warframe.market to implement Lich auctions, I'm pretty sure they missed the initial window altogether.

Personally, I feel that the market for Liches will live on. People will still sell the ones with Ephemeras an high weapon rolls, but the low-rolled regular ones might drop in value - the exact same way that Vaulted Primed Part values drop off a cliff any time they're Unvaulted.

[(PSN)Maunstre]

6 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

There are a plethera of things in the game that are significantly harder and more time consuming to get than any specific litch weapon.
Braton and lato vandal took me MONTHS to get grinding hours a day

Firstly, thank you for presenting an actual argument instead of being dismissive, it is appreciated.

This is true, and I agree that all of these are bad grinds and need to be changed, but I don't believe some grinds being worse than others doesn't mean those that aren't as bad shouldn't be improved. The argument that "[x] is worse therefor Lich weapons aren't a problem" deflects from WF's general issue of incredibly crappy grinds, of which all of the items you mentioned (and more besides) are a part of. Instead of protesting that something shouldn't be changed because something else is worse, ask for improvement all around. I hate the Braton / Lato Vandal and Khora grind. If this was a general "BAD GRIND SUCKS" thread, everything to do with E/SO and Stalker would be at the very top. It's been three years and I still don't have the Scimitar part from Stalker. I still don't have either Braton / Lato Vandal weapon and Khora took me about a year to farm (I don't think I have it in me to farm her twice for Helminth). E/SO is the worst game mode WF has to offer and the drop rates are abysmal for the weapons especially. As a completionist I've long since made peace with the fact that I will probably never have these weapons unless a friend of mine who likes the mode winds up with spare parts to trade, because I hate playing E/SO that much.

 

7 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

At least they cared enough about player feedback on them to add hold to confirm on the larvae mercy because I must've reflex mercied at least 10 of the bastards before seeing what their weapon was, before that change was implemented.

Oh certainly, I agree here. Though to be frank, that it had to be added at all is an issue in and of itself I think, it should have been a part of the system from the start. Considering the MR lock for Liches is lower than Ayatan auto-socket (MR10, ??), and Helminth (MR8, ???????), is in itself a special kind of problem. Unless it's a new account of an experienced player who can make the best out of anything they have, at MR5 you are all but guaranteed to have a colossal problem with a Lich if you spawn one by accident; the petty thievery can be a huge issue early-game and, since you can still accidentally spawn a Lich very early ("what does this do?"), can severely impact the New Player Experience. Getting to MR5 takes no time at all. Liches should be locked behind a much higher MR than they are right now.

 

7 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

My advice on cycling the weapon quickly is bring a hardcore crowd clearer, especially one that can kill through walls like Equinox, Ember, or Saryn (depending on the element you want). Ember's 4 is line of sight but seems to have much more lenience on that than other LoS abilities, as I've pretty frequently killed enemies behind obstacles other LoS abilities wouldn't have been able to with it. Run through exterminate on sedna, when the lights flicker kill every enemy you can find as fast as possible for the best chance at the larvae spawning. I've found they spawn less consistently If I'm slow at taking out enemies or leave some behind (This is why you want exterminate and not capture, capture enemy spawns are all over the place while exterminate enemies only spawn in front of you and you get a convenient marker that helps you not miss any). if the larvae dosn't have the one you want abort immediately and repeat the mission. you can do each attempt in under a minute with the right setup once you get efficient at it and then the rng dosn't feel so bad. Once you get good at it, it might take an hour tops to get the weapon you want to roll.

In my personal runs I find that crowd-clear is not a big issue. I bring guns rather than AOE frames as I find them more effective with the methods I use. I run Cassini (Capture) for Larvaling spawns because Exterminates take too long. I solve the "not enough enemies" problem by pestering those on the way to the target - run around them a little until they're alerted and keep going. They will follow you and will alert those around them with the sound of gunfire. I find that with this method I am close to guaranteed to get flickering lights right after target capture about 90% of the time - about 30 seconds or so of mission time. Grab the target, the lights flicker, turn around and shoot the enemy train that's built up behind me. The type of frame isn't much of a concern to me since with a decent gun I can clear an entire room and spawn a Larvaling within a few seconds; AOE weapons like Chakhurr, Tombfinger, Ogris, Shedu, and the like are really good here. Between only 5 - 10 enemies killed is all that is needed once the lights flicker.

I have had weapon rolls take over an hour thanks to RNG. Nearly drove me nuts. You can only go so fast with even the best of setups and at the end of the day it comes down to how many attempts you have to make because of RNG and load times. I notice you're a PC player - I don't know your setup but on console (PS4 is what I play on), WF's load times have gotten terrible with the recent Corpus ship tileset remaster. Even with the fastest method, the load times legitimately do not help with the inevitable time waste with cycling Larvalings for weapons. No matter how fast I go, the one thing I'll be stuck staring at for the better part of my farming is a load screen. Loading out of a mission and then back in takes... geeze, over a minute? It doesn't sound like much but time moves at a crawl when you are literally able to do nothing. Wiggling a ship is only so entertaining and we don't even get that for mission end anymore. I put on podcasts to help as a distraction, but I have to say the loading screens really grind down your patience.

At the very least, I finally got my last three missing Kuva weapons. 35 Liches. I have no desire to touch Liches again. I sincerely hope that the addition of Corpus Liches bring with it the original "sacrifice a Lich weapon for a specific weapon as a Lich Lure" concept that Scott had way back when Liches were new that Steel_Rook reminded me of earlier in the thread. Larvaling cycling may not be the worst grind WF has, but it's unnecessary (like so many others) and should be looked at.

[Godmode_Ash]

Still no way to get the specific weapon in 2021, running Cassini 30-40 times for a weapon is just dumb. 

Then after 30 runs, the weapon I wanted finally dropped. But its freaking 25%, what a waste of time!

[DarthChaosX]

2020/10/3 AM3點46分 , IamLoco 說:

It takes literally 2 minutes to do a Cassini run with Wukong or Titania or Volt (...). Capture, nuke, find and kill the larvling. Maybe you were doing the wrong mission if it took you so long?

If player want one specfic kuva weapon, which has 1/16=6.25% drop rate, nearly guaranteed (99%) value would be 71.35 runs{log((1-6.25%), (1-99%))}. multiply by 2 mins, get 1 hour+ 

[ZiltoidiaAttacks]

The Larva that spawns the lich shows which weapon the lich will have before you kill it.

[Troll_Logic]

13 hours ago, ZiltoidiaAttacks said:

The Larva that spawns the lich shows which weapon the lich will have before you kill it.

Way to necro a thread.

[ZiltoidiaAttacks]

On 2021-11-04 at 11:31 AM, Troll_Logic said:

Way to necro a thread.

Thanks, I think. I don't get quite what you mean. Like Nekros or Necraloid?

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2020-10-03 at 12:57 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

And?

And?

And?

that's all you ever respond with when someone disagrees with you, just dismissing them.

You come off as Entitled and Whiny.

 

Anyway, have another reason why not, maybe this one will matter?

Lich Trade value. A major reason people are willing to buy Liches is to skip the pain of the RNG. Remove that and you screw over a number of people who worked hard for their Lich inventories. And in a 'free to play - pay to skip grind' game money does matter. So I'd see that as a pretty legitimate reason.

 

and now you're probably going to say those people don't matter... just what You want matters, going back to my point about entitled and whiny....

He responds with "and?" Because your counter points don't disprove the point made by the OP and frankly are irrelevant to it. In each part where he begins with "and?" OP followed up by explaining further. Guess you're choosing not to see that. 

 

Your only ACTUAL counter point is plat value would drop. Hate to break it to you but plat value of items don't dictate what DE does and it shouldn't. The game should be fun, not all about making plat. You obviously aren't attempting to represent the average player. You're attempting to represent lich tycoons which I promise are 1/1000th of the average player base.