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☆After all this time has your opinion on Rail Jack & Liches changed at all?☆


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Opinions & Thoughts

Discussion time regarding the current version of Rail Jack and Liches.

My thoughts to the discussion :

Rail Jack has grown on me, not what i intended to see in Warframe. But it really does have it's moments. I do have hope that the revamp comming will be adding the command line allowing for solo play (better + playing with randoms still blows in Warframe) as well as more mission types.

Honestly RJ has potentially still and i just hope it's not another throw away system as usual. Because their idea of ground to space they promised is still something to be seen.

While Liches have not grown on me personally. In fact the more i do it the more i hate the entire system. Farming murmurs is insanely boring and playing pick the right combo for rewards still turns me off doing them. 

it's not like they are hard we can delete the buggers fast so then playing the pick the right combo to see if the rewards drop this time is uuugh so bloody dumb still. Honestly hope this entire system is reworked into something less blood boiling boring.

Thoughts fellow Tenno?

Edit : Hopefully this is still the intention of DE to deliver.

https://youtu.be/NGpJICoghnQ

Edited by (PS4)Mofojokers
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Liches are not nearly as much of a trash fire as what they were when the launched. No more automatic death even when you win without taking damage and the ability to see what weapon you're getting into before you start one is miles ahead of what it used to be.

Liches went from "absolute garbage" to "severely disconnected and overly grindy, but otherwise harmless" in my eyes.

Railjack still needs more for me to form an opinion, but as a tech demo the only issue currently is that it isn't worth using any MK1-2 parts when you can build up to Sigma 3 and still be fine until after Saturn. I'd like to see more game modes introduced and a wider variety of missions, and also a better loot system due to the already mentioned issue of MK1-2 being useless.

Railjack has potential, it just needs some form of execution to realize that potential.

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Railjack:

It's a fun thing to do with friends when we aren't sure what else to do. I love having a personal gunship, and hopefully we'll get more content for it at some point.

 

Liches:
Now that it's purely opt-in, I don't mind it. When it came out, I almost stopped playing, mostly because it was "hey, we're gonna force 50+ content on you in lvl20+ areas." with the only other criteria being "complete War Within". The murmur grind isn't awful, you basically shop for your Lich now, and there's Valence Fusion on top of that. The only thing I really don't like about it is really Bramma, mostly because it's so easy to break everything with one mod you'll probly put on it anyway (Ammo Mutation/Vigilante Supplies). It's a direct-to-target nuke that drops more nukes, that is better than all the other launchers from Liches hands down. Otherwise Liches are kinda fun variations to take on, and give some nice variants on Grineer weapons.

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I actually loved both liches and railjack right from day 1 (i really miss having to constantly put out fires and plug holes, it was legit hectic)

However these 2 systems are great foundations, and DE have a habit of making really cool foundations but, at the risk of sounding pretentious, they need to start making houses, if you get what I mean.

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Railjack is okay-ish. Just lacks diversity and more interesting missions, such as the one that was originally showed at Tennocon. Otherwise still fun to play here and there, but definitely not all day long.

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7 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

I actually loved both liches and railjack right from day 1 (i really miss having to constantly put out fires and plug holes, it was legit hectic)

However these 2 systems are great foundations, and DE have a habit of making really cool foundations but, at the risk of sounding pretentious, they need to start making houses, if you get what I mean.

Point well said, we have many foundations but at some point these bricks need to be laid.

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After getting better mods and actually putting forma in my archguns and wing and RJ....I found railjack really fun. Before railjack, it was just taking arch stuff to 30 in salacia. I only had a health and armor mod....

So with an actual strength duration and range mod, it gives the different archwings and guns more variety (archgun rivens too). 

I actually haven't even touched liches yet. I check what weapons pop up when I kill the guy in normal missions, so when I see a weapon I want I'll go ahead and start it. I did some preparation and got some kuva relics and lich mods ready for when I do start it.

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Railjack was some of the most fun I'd had in the game for a long time and that was all ruined once the enemy nerf wave hit. Now the mode is just a boring slog that takes zero effort to plow through. Since that hasn't been improved at all since then I'm just entirely disappointed in the mode.

While Liches still feel like they take too long to complete it's at least a long term grind that offers a break from other farms. And being an opt-in system once being finished with it it'll remain unobtrusive. Though my favorite aspect of them is Requiem Survivals as a trace and Kuva farm.

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Last week end, I went and re-watched all the demo presentations of Tennocon since 2018, and man... that version of warframe could've been insane ! but now... sorry, Railjack feels alien to warframe, Needs more content and mission types, but its fun game mode, I enjoyed it, but sadly not in my interest anymore 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

Last week end, I went and re-watched all the demo presentations of Tennocon since 2018, and man... that version of warframe could've been insane ! but now... sorry, Railjack feels alien to warframe, Needs more content and mission types, but its fun game mode, I enjoyed it, but sadly not in my interest anymore 

Those videos can be abit heartbreaking but it does show what their intention was and hopefully still is.

Hopefully this is still their intention.

 

Edited by (PS4)Mofojokers
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5分钟前 , (PS4)Mofojokers 说:

Those videos can be abit heartbreaking but it does show what their intention was and hopefully still is.

I dont get why so many people was hype about the demo. All i can see is warframe running back and front from objective to the other just like the game already is. It bring nothing to game play aside from taking place in Railjack. Especially in the lich part seeing Excalibur awkwardly shooting at lich and force to wait untill other player do their job in order to kill the lich. How is that a good experience?   I doubt anyone will be satisfied even Devs manage to deliver the same thing on the demo. 

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I interacted with both systems the first time recently due to nightwave. I quite liked both.

Railjack:
The space fantasy works well! The main problem: The mode is pretty dead (at least on Switch), I suspect mainly because it is SO cumbersome to set up a mission (Load into dojo, fast travel to dry dock, make way to railjack, enter railjack, walk to navigation, select mission, load into mission) - it can take minutes!

Imo, the railjack ship should be merged into the regular "menu" orbiter. Once you load up Warframe, you should simply *be* in your Railjack/Orbiter, in space, and be able to fly around if you choose to. Right now we literally have two star charts, two versions of Earth and Saturn... this should all get unified and Railjack should become the first thing you see, with the option to fly down to planets for classic gameplay.

 Lich:
The murmur grind took a bit long, but the steady progress made for a nice relaxing time listening to podcasts. Sometimes I just want to shut off my mind.
Requiem mods are triple-gated (get Relic maybe, get Mod maybe, get right one maybe), which is a bit much I think. I ended up in trade chat, selling my mods and buying the ones I needed - trading is its own fun, but it would get old quick.

The Lich itself was maybe a bit too goofy in its voice lines, but I don't have an argument against it being more light-hearted. It gave him character, at least. I liked that the penalty of having a Lich wasn't severe, I could live with him taking the odd resource.

I got lucky with the combination, had the right one on my second try, and defeated my Lich on the third encounter. It was a pretty close fight too, so I figure it was balanced pretty perfectly. Was a great moment! I am glad Nightwave pushed me to experience this system, though I am not sure I'll do it again on my own. Maybe next Season.

Edited by (NSW)Kaffeebohnson
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I like the concept of Railjack, and the execution is overall fine, but we definitely need more to the gamemode. It needs to be connected with the rest of the game. 

First and foremost, it would help so damn much if we could farm relics in a Railjack mission, preferably an endless one. Right now, Railjack only serves Railjack.

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22 minutes ago, (NSW)Kaffeebohnson said:

The space fantasy works well! The main problem: The mode is pretty dead (at least on Switch), I suspect mainly because it is SO cumbersome to set up a mission (Load into dojo, fast travel to dry dock, make way to railjack, enter railjack, walk to navigation, select mission, load into mission) - it can take minutes!

On PC you can just launch your railjack from your orbiter. There's an elevator to it directly opposite the entrance to your Operator's chair. You can join missions in progress from the navigation menu. No need to go to the dojo.


--------------------------------------


Anyways, to address the op's point, no, my opinions on either haven't really changed at all. I still believe both are systems rife with potential that suffer from being silo'd off from regular play and DE's limited development bandwidth.

For Railjack, you're either doing railjack or you just aren't. You can forget it's there, or nearly so. The whole ship and base assaulting aspect is pretty cool, but the missions themselves need fleshing out, and the big nasty structures really need to be able to make their presence felt at much longer ranges than they currently are able to. The missile battery, ship killer platform, and Grineer galleon are especially egregious in this regard.

Liches are similar. They don't *do* anything to the player. Sure, if you play on a node they control they'll pinch your mission reward, maybe even something you're really in want or need of. However, they take no initiative to pursue their own goals, never serve as a roadblock to the player, hell, they don't even show up as their A******-ish lvl 100 selves in low level missions to kick over the mobile defense target or steal the rescue target out from under your nose. For something that is supposed to be a truly dire foe (at least for awhile), they are not really ever there to begin with.

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2 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Liches are similar. They don't *do* anything to the player. Sure, if you play on a node they control they'll pinch your mission reward, maybe even something you're really in want or need of. However, they take no initiative to pursue their own goals, never serve as a roadblock to the player, hell, they don't even show up as their A******-ish lvl 100 selves in low level missions to kick over the mobile defense target or steal the rescue target out from under your nose. For something that is supposed to be a truly dire foe (at least for awhile), they are not really ever there to begin with.

As much as I enjoy Liches, this is pretty much my biggest gripe with them. They're supposed to be your nemesis, hindering you, but all they do is swipe resources if you're operating in their influenced planets or attack if you're running their missions.

I'd love if they could show up like hunters to take you down or stop you from completing the objective. I want a Lich to teleport around an Interception mission capping points, focus firing (mobile) defense objectives and rescue targets, revive and interrupt your attempts to get the capture target, etc.

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1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

As much as I enjoy Liches, this is pretty much my biggest gripe with them. They're supposed to be your nemesis, hindering you, but all they do is swipe resources if you're operating in their influenced planets or attack if you're running their missions.

I'd love if they could show up like hunters to take you down or stop you from completing the objective. I want a Lich to teleport around an Interception mission capping points, focus firing (mobile) defense objectives and rescue targets, revive and interrupt your attempts to get the capture target, etc.

Almost like they should take alot more after the system they were designed from and how that game franchise handled it. I cannot tell ya how many dang times i had some orc betray me or try to take my ass out while i was in the middle of an important battle and almost losing lol.

Bloody nemesis system was and still is my favourite thing of the franchise.

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The way I see it, Liches and Railjack are poor imitations of systems from other games that did them better. It's not exactly innovation.

I tried Liches when they had just come out. It made me hate the game in ways I had never hated it before.

But then Scarlet Spear went live this year. And then that made me hate the game in ways I had never hated it before.

So with regards to Liches? Yes my opinion of it has changed. I hate it less than I used to. That doesn't mean the system is in a perfect spot, nor does it mean that the grind to hit the 60% bonus damage cap on all 16 kuva weapons is enjoyable.  But I will admit that I don't mind doing liches now. One run of a lich from start to execution is 90% basic tileset missions over and over with the other 10% being fissures if you run out of the requiem mods that you need to kill the lich. Nothing new in between, apart from mercy kills but I mean...the "hero moment" factor in mercy kills dies off really quickly.

As for Railjack, I stayed very far from that when it released initially because I knew it'd be a mess on launch (and this was confirmed) and I personally was not interested in that content at all. I recently tried Railjack (after Railjack Revisited went live) and it seems playable. I actually managed to complete some missions. My ship no longer feels like dead weight in space. But my opinion on it still hasn't changed. There's nothing in that content that compels me to play it. So I don't care for it at all.

The general trend I'm trying to get at here is that I don't feel like good work was done on The Old Blood, nor Empyrean. Everyone knows this. They are among the poorest received updates that were released. With that said, neither content, in my book, has made a complete turn-around. They're actually playable now and they don't want to make you pull your hair out but at the end of the day, to me, they both just boil down to timesink content. And ever since Nightwave became a thing (or if you want to be real, ever since PoE), I've realised that a lot of DE's updates seem to prioritise timesink content over the player experience which ends up making the content very basic, bland and unenjoyable.  Their modus operandi seems to be "How much hours can we get the player to spend here?" as opposed to "How fun is this content and will it be something that our players will spend hours playing?"

In addition to that, content released after both those things makes you shift your focus from those average updates but not because that new content is great. Deimos is another content island that DE decided to work on because they don't have their studio at their disposal anymore and so couldn't do Duviri Paradox/New War (as they claimed), but also because they realised that they've been constantly biting off more than they can chew, leading to very poor releases of the most recent updates. So they just went to "ultra safe mode" and gave us another open-world area layered with grind upon grind, with grind inside each grind. So now as a player your focus shifts to Deimos but in my opinion, not because it's finally a great update. Don't get me wrong, it shipped in a much better condition than Railjack, Orb Vallis or PoE. But it's just a lateral move to a content island where you can do all the things you've done before, with a couple new things trickled in.

Edited by Me.KayOh
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My opinion hasn't changed, both were and still are leagues above what the common forum complaints would lead one to believe. Not perfect for sure, but pretty good, certainly not desperatly bad like many keep saying for, more often than not, all the bad reasons.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Opinions & Thoughts

Discussion time regarding the current version of Rail Jack and Liches.

My thoughts to the discussion :

Rail Jack has grown on me, not what i intended to see in Warframe. But it really does have it's moments. I do have hope that the revamp comming will be adding the command line allowing for solo play (better + playing with randoms still blows in Warframe) as well as more mission types.

Honestly RJ has potentially still and i just hope it's not another throw away system as usual. Because their idea of ground to space they promised is still something to be seen.

While Liches have not grown on me personally. In fact the more i do it the more i hate the entire system. Farming murmurs is insanely boring and playing pick the right combo for rewards still turns me off doing them. 

it's not like they are hard we can delete the buggers fast so then playing the pick the right combo to see if the rewards drop this time is uuugh so bloody dumb still. Honestly hope this entire system is reworked into something less blood boiling boring.

Thoughts fellow Tenno?

Edit : Hopefully this is still the intention of DE to deliver.

https://youtu.be/NGpJICoghnQ

Railjack is as horrible and pointless as before but the lich system is now a decent addition to the game, even though nothing like it was first promised to be like

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Those videos can be abit heartbreaking but it does show what their intention was and hopefully still is.

Hopefully this is still their intention.

 

Unlike most people, I honestly don't care all too much about being able to board railjack from Fortuna and later on squad link. They're flashy gimmicks with zero gameplay implications. They're fun to reveal on the show floor, but all the effort to make them work for something taht really doesn't do anything?

 

 

What WOULD be nice though is to finally face off against Corpus and Infested on the Railjack, some more weapons, a slight update to make Railjack more customizable, a fully customizable AI crew with Command Intrinsics.

Edited by (PS4)GingyGreen
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Railjack is fine, now, but it needs more content and integration. Liches need way more integration, I hate how they're partitioned rather than native like syndicate invasions. And valance needs the Railjack treatment, I hate how they try to withhold every bit of quality just to see if we'll bear it rather than making stuff consumer friendly to begin with...

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vor einer Stunde schrieb TheGrimCorsair:

On PC you can just launch your railjack from your orbiter. There's an elevator to it directly opposite the entrance to your Operator's chair. You can join missions in progress from the navigation menu. No need to go to the dojo.

WHAT 😲

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Nope, my opinion of both systems hasn't changed at all.  Both are half-finished (or less), broken, tedious and generally not even slightly worth the effort.  Fortunately neither is connected to anything else in the game, and both systems can safely be completely ignored (as long as you don't care about the Mastery points.)

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Railjack is certainly interesting ATM. They do need to nerf the teather ability, as right now if your not using it, your not doing it right. It also needs more content.

Liches are, over all, in a good place. I do agree however that now the initial 'wow' period is overthey should cut down the requirements for each rune / increase murmur values. I also think that they need a way to garantee getting particular weapons. Perhaps kills with the non kuva varient give definate kuva versions of that gun.

Side note to add. I really want them to add a system for Rivens, where the weapon you unlock a riven with is then the weapon the riven assigns too. Think this would be good to reduce the inflation of price on certain weapons for riven selling, instead switching the focus fully on great rolls. It would be an interesting change to the riven meta.

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