Xaku balance suggestion: The fundamental problem with Deny

[MiniVault]

Greetings! I must admit, I had already posted this on the subreddit, but it didn't catch much traction since I usually don't post there. However, I do want my thoughts to be heard, so I decided to post it here as well. I also want to say that I love Xaku and that this criticism is meant to be constructive in order to improve Xaku. With that being said, let's begin! Ever since Xaku got released, people have been talking about the balance issues with the warframe and how to improve it. Luckily, Xaku is in a way better state right now than they were on release, but they still feel quite lacking compared to other warframes. This isn't helped by one of their abilities, which is arguably their weakest currently. I'm talking about The Lost: Deny.

Deny is slightly better compared to how it was on release, but it's still not very useful. You pay a high energy cost with a slow-feeling cast animation to send out a thin beam which, although now scales with the amount of weapons you've stolen, isn't very powerful at higher levels. DE has expressed that they intended this ability to be a damage ability used to take down heavier units. The problem is that the damage is quite lacking at higher levels, and even if you were to use methods to increase the ability's damage, you're usually better off using your weapons (no energy cost or cast animation) or letting your stolen guns do the work for you (shorter range, but auto-targets and lasts longer with a lower energy cost). In fact, weapons in general usually do its job better. People have suggested buffing the damage of Deny for this very reason, but personally, I don't think any buffs to damage will make this ability useful. This is because it seems to go against the synergy that the rest of the kit has.

Thanks to the changes right now, Xaku has an interesting and synergetic playstyle. Steal guns with Grasp of Lohk, buff yourself with Xata's Whisper, maybe use Gaze to strip enemy defenses (when doing something like a survival mission) and then keep Vast Untime up for survivability and to pause all the durations of your abilities. In my opinion, this is a very fun playstyle. Deny, however, seems to go against this rythm. Its main effect, and the reason you'd cast it, happens on the initial cast only, that being the damage. The lifting effect is... not very useful cause the ability is a thin beam, and thus won't affect any enemies. Despite this, it's the only duration-based part of Deny that gets paused upon casting the Vast Untime. This makes it so that the ability doesn't synergize very well with the rest of Xaku's kit, because you're paying a high energy cost for a very non-impactful instant effect, which could cause energy issues if used too much. Therefore, as long as this issue remains, I don't think Deny will ever be useful on Xaku.

So, how would this be solved? People have often suggested making Deny cast in a cone instead of a beam, and although this would help a lot (since the ability could reliably kill groups of weak enemies and have solid CC for the survivors), I don't think that's the direction DE wants to go in. And personally, i'm not a big fan of this idea either. Mainly because the reason why DE wants you to cast it (the damage) would still be an instant thing. Plus we already have a lot of cone abilities in the game, so it doesn't feel super unique. So, I propose a different sollution: a mini-rework to the ability that keeps its beam-like cast, but gives it a different-but-similar use.

 

The Lost: Deny
Xaku fires a beam of Void energy, which becomes locked in time. Enemies touching the beam will receive X Void damage per second, which scales with enemy level. The beam will stay in place until cast again or if its duration (16 seconds) runs out. Like all of Xaku's abilities, the duration gets paused by the Vast Untime.

 

My reasoning behind this rework is to do a few things. First, and most importantly, it gives Deny a use that Xaku's other abilities don't fill. It allows you to place down a lingering beam of constant damage, meaning you can easily lock down a hallway, protect a point on interception, and so on without you needing to be present. The damage-over-time effect also means that you won't lose DPS when casting this ability, since you can place it down when enemies aren't arriving, and reap the spoils when they come, along with using the rest of your abilities. Which means, more synergy! Secondly, it's to simplify the ability, while keeping it unique. All abilities of The Lost are quite unique and bizarre, but are also becoming a little complex for abilities that all share the same button. Deny, in its current state; deals damage, lifts enemies, removes sentient resistances, and scales with your second ability. That's a lot for an ability that shares a button with 2 others. By making it a lingering effect, it can be simplified a lot while keeping it balanced. This new version of Deny will no longer lift enemies or scale off the second ability or any of that jazz; it will just deal damage. This isn't a bad thing though, considering the damage area stays as long as you keep your Vast Untime up. Finally, making it so that there can only be 1 beam at a time makes sure that you cant let the game play itself by using Gaze along with it, and forces you to either get creative with your angles or to just lock down a single angle, which would at least be one less angle to worry about.

All in all, I'm interested to hear what you guys think of this suggestion. Please keep your criticism constructive though, so we can get a proper conversation going. This suggestion might have issues that I didn't spot before, so it'd be nice to hear them from you guys. Also I should mention that I am aware of the upcoming changes coming to Xaku, including those of Deny. However, since it would still have the anti-synergetic issues I mentioned before, I doubt it would help much. I want to end this post by saying that I tried to make my suggestion similar to what I think DE was going for with this ability, but changing it in a way so that it has more of a use in Xaku's kit. I also want to state that I love Xaku, and that this post is coming from a place of care and concern for the warframe.

[Savire510]

There is a round 2 of xaku changes incoming.

Quote

The Lost: Deny

• Increased Deny’s beam width and base range (25m to 40m). 
  • Straightforward change to help you target and damage more enemies. More bang for your beam!
     
• Deny can now be cast while moving.
  • Currently, Deny’s casting animation locks Xaku in place. While we did increase the casting speed in Round 1, it just simply was not enough to fulfill the parkour freedom you’ve become well familiar with in Warframe. Removing the lock brings back the ninja fantasy while also making the most of the synergy between Deny and Grasp of Lohk that we added in Round 1. As we said in our first Xaku Dev Workshop, “more firepower… faster”, but this time we really mean it! 

and some more, check this:

 

[MiniVault]

2 minutes ago, Savire510 said:

There is a round 2 of xaku changes incoming.

and some more, check this:

 

Yes, I am aware of this! I stated in the original message that I'm aware of the upcoming changes, but I don't think they will make Deny that much more useful. This is because it doesn't addres what i think is the main issue with the ability, that being that its main functionality (the damage) is an instant effect, which doesn't go well with Xaku's duration-based playstyle. By that i mean locking your durations with the Vast Untime.

[Savire510]

8 minutes ago, MiniVault said:

Yes, I am aware of this! I stated in the original message that I'm aware of the upcoming changes, but I don't think they will make Deny that much more useful. This is because it doesn't addres what i think is the main issue with the ability, that being that its main functionality (the damage) is an instant effect, which doesn't go well with Xaku's duration-based playstyle. By that i mean locking your durations with the Vast Untime.

ou, sorry, i havent noticed that. Anyway i agree with you.

I never used Deny for pure damage purpouse as stripping armor and allowing your own stolen weapons to kill brings way better results.

For 75 energy spent Deny needs some additional functionality, besides its weak cc

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The problem is it seems DEs intention is that Xakus damage abilities are only allowed to be damage abilities when Gaze strips 100% armor. Outside of that they do practically nothing.