Jump to content
Whispers in the Walls: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Xatas whisper - a more "subtle" balancing mechanic for balancing elemental damage?


0_The_F00l

Recommended Posts

So just in case you aren't aware Xatas whisper is different than other damage bonus abilities or mods.

It does not add to the pool of damage , it is its own separate instance with a separate chance to inflict status.

The damage bonus is not applied to the weapon directly and only activates on hit as well.

Its like a single multishot pellet of only void damage but with undiluted status chance.

 

What if elemental mods can work similarly?

Elemental damage would then be additive , not multiplicative to either serration or MS mods.

 

YES - it will in effect be a nerf to damage for most weapons but i was wondering how much salt would be shed if it happened and weapons didnt do so much damage anymore?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

YES - it will in effect be a nerf to damage for most weapons but i was wondering how much salt would be shed if it happened and weapons didnt do so much damage anymore?.

How would that nerf damage at all. The only difference would be proc weighting. Also Toxic Lash was like this first, not Xata's Whisper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Elemental mods are 11 drain....so that's gonna be a no.

i wasn't speaking of just the 90% elemental mods

 

16 hours ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

How would that nerf damage at all. The only difference would be proc weighting. Also Toxic Lash was like this first, not Xata's Whisper

Lets look at this:

Currently:

Generic weapon X with 100 base damage,

add serration R10 (165% damage)

its now 100*2.65 damage = 265 per hit

Add split chamber,

its now 265x1.9 =503.5 potential average damage

now add 2 90% elemental

its now (265*2.8)x1.9 potential  = 1409.8 potential

 

As per my thoughts:

Generic weapon x with 100 base damage,

add serrationR10

Its now 100*2.65 = 265 per hit

add split chamber,

its now 265*1.9 = 503.5 potential average damage,

Now add 2 90% elemental

 Option 1: 265*1.9 + 100*1.8 =  683.5 (unaffected by serration and multi shot)

 Option 2 : 265*1.9 +100*1.8*1.9 = 845.5 (unaffected my serration)

 Option 3 : 265*1.9 + 265*1.8 = 980.5 (unaffected my multi shot)

 

Also any procs that occur will be based on that instance of damage not the overall effective damage.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

i wasn't speaking of just the 90% elemental mods

 

Lets look at this:

Currently:

Generic weapon X with 100 base damage,

add serration R10 (165% damage)

its now 100*2.65 damage = 265 per hit

Add split chamber,

its now 265x1.9 =503.5 potential average damage

now add 2 90% elemental

its now (265*2.8)x1.9 potential  = 1409.8 potential

 

As per my thoughts:

Generic weapon x with 100 base damage,

add serrationR10

Its now 100*2.65 = 265 per hit

add split chamber,

its now 265*1.9 = 503.5 potential average damage,

Now add 2 90% elemental

 Option 1: 265*1.9 + 100*1.8 =  683.5 (unaffected by serration and multi shot)

 Option 2 : 265*1.9 +100*1.8*1.9 = 845.5 (unaffected my serration)

 Option 3 : 265*1.9 + 265*1.8 = 980.5 (unaffected my multi shot)

 

Except that's nothing like how Xata's Whisper works?
Like its a mildly interesting idea, but it doesn't bear any real similarity to Xata's Whisper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Except that's nothing like how Xata's Whisper works?
Like its a mildly interesting idea, but it doesn't bear any real similarity to Xata's Whisper

the core concept i am considering is that elementals would have their own separate instance of damage with its own status proc chance.

That's what Xatas whisper is.

I don't want an exact copy of it , only to utilize an existing mechanics more broadly and get some semblance of control on the completely out of balance damage system.

 

PS Its not the ONLY change to consider , its only one of a few.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

the core concept i am considering is that elementals would have their own separate instance of damage with its own status proc chance.

That's what Xatas whisper is.

I don't want an exact copy of it , only to utilize an existing mechanics more broadly and get some semblance of control on the completely out of balance damage system.

 

PS Its not the ONLY change to consider , its only one of a few.

"get some semblance of control on the completely out of balance damage system"

That's your opinion and who says it is needed? 

There are still many people saying primary and secondary weapons aren't very good. 

If your damage is out of balance, why don't you just use Rank 1 element mods? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

"get some semblance of control on the completely out of balance damage system"

That's your opinion and who says it is needed?

As you said its my opinion , i do not make claims for others, only for myself - others are free to agree or disagree with me.

That's the whole point of a discussion so others can show their own thoughts.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

There are still many people saying primary and secondary weapons aren't very good.

That is a Half truth, it needs context,

Guns usually aren't very good , when compared with melee weapons , but exceptions do exist.

In most cases melee will indeed outperform guns cause of how the mod system exists with its damage multipliers.

Get us an equivalent of CO or blood rush on guns and they will be just as good and equally overpowered.

As of now its a comparison of howitzers vs nuclear missiles.

Howitzers are not weak but cant argue with nukes.

35 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

If your damage is out of balance, why don't you just use Rank 1 element mods? 

I occasionally do when i run solo for the challenge ,

or when i am not actively farming any particular item or drop.

Public matches make me feel carried or lacking in contribution, might as well never shoot or slash (trust me done that too).

I liked the grendel missions for the same reason.

Running around sneezing things to oblivion is fun the first hundred times, but it eventually becomes empty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to throw in here that I think all of the mods in Warframe's damage system should be additive, not multiplicative, in order to make the choice to use them more based on what effects you want rather than always having to base things off what the weapon's original stats are.

This would allow for DE to create weapons with functionally more diverse Crit and Status base stats overall, because being able to add a ball-park number of 60% critical to a weapon like the base Nukor would make that weapon way more functional than having to rely on a specific Warframe or Companion in order to get it to deal crits.

It would require the actual percentages on the mods to be rebalanced, but the result would be a lot more flexibility in how we build. For example, in the case that we roll a heavy status chance riven for one of our weapons, we could actually switch out the mods around it to make use of that new boost to status rather than having to re-roll it because the base status chance on that weapon was originally only about 10%.

Releasing a weapon with 0% crit would be possible, and we could still put a base crit chance mod on it to make it have that capability, or we could put on the combo-scaling mods to hit high numbers the exact same way as we do now. Similarly, we could have a weapon with a base of 100% crit chance and then we would have the choice to either lean that weapon heavily into that crit with raw damage, or we could build in status chance to make it a hybrid.

I don't think, however, that OP's idea to make the elements all have their own separate instances of damage with their own chance to proc is a good idea. The issue is how to balance those status chances against each other. You would either run the problem of having a chance, no matter how low your overall status chance is, to proc all of your status effects at once (or none), or you would have the current issue where 100% status chance still only guarantees one status effect per shot and 200% still only guarantees two status types per shot.

I think that at the very least with the current system, being able to bias our elemental damage to proc the one we want more often by simply having it be the one that deals the most damage is a far more straight-forward way to handle things.

It works for Abilities, but I don't think it will work for the overall damage system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I'm going to throw in here that I think all of the mods in Warframe's damage system should be additive, not multiplicative, in order to make the choice to use them more based on what effects you want rather than always having to base things off what the weapon's original stats are.

This would allow for DE to create weapons with functionally more diverse Crit and Status base stats overall, because being able to add a ball-park number of 60% critical to a weapon like the base Nukor would make that weapon way more functional than having to rely on a specific Warframe or Companion in order to get it to deal crits.

It would require the actual percentages on the mods to be rebalanced, but the result would be a lot more flexibility in how we build. For example, in the case that we roll a heavy status chance riven for one of our weapons, we could actually switch out the mods around it to make use of that new boost to status rather than having to re-roll it because the base status chance on that weapon was originally only about 10%.

Releasing a weapon with 0% crit would be possible, and we could still put a base crit chance mod on it to make it have that capability, or we could put on the combo-scaling mods to hit high numbers the exact same way as we do now. Similarly, we could have a weapon with a base of 100% crit chance and then we would have the choice to either lean that weapon heavily into that crit with raw damage, or we could build in status chance to make it a hybrid.

 

i do agree with most of this , but the numbers will indeed need to be reworked significantly.

Or make it partially additive and multiplicative like 30% multiplicative increase + 20% flat increase to the stat so it can both complement as well as supplement weapons.

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I don't think, however, that OP's idea to make the elements all have their own separate instances of damage with their own chance to proc is a good idea. The issue is how to balance those status chances against each other. You would either run the problem of having a chance, no matter how low your overall status chance is, to proc all of your status effects at once (or none), or you would have the current issue where 100% status chance still only guarantees one status effect per shot and 200% still only guarantees two status types per shot.

I think that at the very least with the current system, being able to bias our elemental damage to proc the one we want more often by simply having it be the one that deals the most damage is a far more straight-forward way to handle things.

It works for Abilities, but I don't think it will work for the overall damage system.

i think i follow , but you will usually at any single time only have 3 possible instances of damage (base , elemental combo 1 , elemental combo 2)

i do not see how balancing the status against each other is necessary and am unable to understand your point of view of 100% vs 200% status chance, maybe an example would help?

if i have 60% status chance on my weapon today (no MS) with a distribution like 10 impact , 10 puncture, 10 slash and then 36 viral , 18 heat ,

then i have a near 43% weighting for viral , 21% weighting for heat and 8.4 % for any of the IPS,

which translates to 25% chance for viral , 13% heat , 5% for any of the IPS (with stronger DOTs wherever applicable as it calculates of total damage)

 

However with an instance based system,

Viral would have true 60% status, Heat would have true 60% status , and any of the IPS would have 60% status (20% each which could be weighted).

you would get a lot more procs , yes , but the effective damage would still be lower as it would tic off their own damage instance numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I think every time DE has tried to do something unique with how status effects get calculated or applied it just ends up worse than what they had before.

So it’s a no from me.

 

Only time i remember them changing status was when they fixed the per pellet based status effect (so that golden 100% status was no longer relevant) and the beam status per second thing (which never made sense).

That was more like a "really should have done that since the beginning" moment and not a "you screwed it" moment in my opinion.

The current status with caps and revised effects was not bad per se , but felt incomplete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Only time i remember them changing status was when they fixed the per pellet based status effect (so that golden 100% status was no longer relevant) and the beam status per second thing (which never made sense).

That was more like a "really should have done that since the beginning" moment and not a "you screwed it" moment in my opinion.

The current status with caps and revised effects was not bad per se , but felt incomplete.

Apparently beam weapons were godlike when they first were added.

Also the problem with them trying to make 100% status on shotguns no longer relevant is it showcases why 100% was so relevant to begin with. The idea of dividing the status chance amongst the pellets is so ill conceived.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

i do not see how balancing the status against each other is necessary

Okay, it's because the status types are unbalanced in their effects.

For example, Impact and Puncture are very ineffective, and thus not desired status effects, while Slash is. Magnetic has no effect on unshielded enemies, but Toxin is a better damage and status type on those enemies anyway due to ignoring shields.

So with weighting in play, you have the ability to bias your Status Procs against the specific enemies you're facing. Against an armoured enemy, a weapon with even IPS spread, modded for Heat and Viral, will want the Viral to proc the most often, then the Heat for damage over time and the armour reduction, with the Slash to proc approximately as often as the Heat for more damage over time in quick succession. You do not want the Impact to proc very often because of the stagger that ensures the enemies move and your aim needs to be adjusted for their movements, and the Puncture even less so because after a fairly regular point in the game the reduced damage they deal is still lethal.

With instanced damage in play, and a non-100% status chance, you're ensuring that the undesirable status effects and the desired status effects all happen with no bias. You can't bias your build to make a 10-stack of Viral for maximum damage happen quickly and effectively, you could be staggering the enemy all over the place, while setting it on fire, and your RNG with the Viral could mean you're stuck at minimum damage because that 40% or so of chance to not deal status rolls up more often for the necessary hits. (Out of 100 hits, a 60% status chance does not ensure that you get 60 status effects. It means that over millions of hits, you average out 60% of the hits have status. In practice, you could have 100 hits with no status effect and then hit status on every hit after that to make up the balance.)

That is until you hit 100%. At that point, you have a literal 100% chance to proc everything. Meaning that you hit Viral every single time, you hit Heat every single time, you hit Slash and Impact and Puncture every single time.

While great for a Condition Overload melee build, you're literally returning the issue of the 100% Shotgun Status that DE deliberately removed from the game already. Except this time it's with every weapon. Meaning that, when coupled with the nerf to the damage-type status effects (that would only draw damage from their own elemental on the weapon), a weapon for later game would only be considered 'good' if you could reach that 100% status chance. (While still having decent crit),

Under the current weighting method, at 100% Status you are guaranteed 1 Status, there's a chance that you would not proc the one you want, but you would guarantee a status chance. At 200% Status chance there's a guaranteed chance to proc 2 Status, there's equal chance for those to not be what you want, but still, two. At less than 100% under the current system, there's a chance that you don't proc any status at all.

Under an instanced method, at 100% Status there's a guarantee to proc every status effect, every shot, double for any multi-shot you put on, and at 200% you just guarantee two instances of every status. Lower than 100% though, it's no different to current.

That's not a good balance, because the Status Types are not balanced.

The damage types would get a nerf under your system, but the important ones, the ones that reduce defenses, buff our own damage, turn the enemy against each other and so on... those would get an equivalently larger buff.

Meanwhile, player agency would have a hefty nerf because if a weapon can't crack the 100% chance, it's no different to now, and we could no longer bias our weapons to proc one element over the other, because no matter how much base damage they dealt, they would always have an even chance to proc with the other elemental types.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Okay, it's because the status types are unbalanced in their effects.

For example, Impact and Puncture are very ineffective, and thus not desired status effects, while Slash is. Magnetic has no effect on unshielded enemies, but Toxin is a better damage and status type on those enemies anyway due to ignoring shields.

That is a separate issue by itself. As there are clearly better and worse status effects to consider.

It is a point for a different discussion for sure.

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So with weighting in play, you have the ability to bias your Status Procs against the specific enemies you're facing. Against an armoured enemy, a weapon with even IPS spread, modded for Heat and Viral, will want the Viral to proc the most often, then the Heat for damage over time and the armour reduction, with the Slash to proc approximately as often as the Heat for more damage over time in quick succession. You do not want the Impact to proc very often because of the stagger that ensures the enemies move and your aim needs to be adjusted for their movements, and the Puncture even less so because after a fairly regular point in the game the reduced damage they deal is still lethal.

With instanced damage in play, and a non-100% status chance, you're ensuring that the undesirable status effects and the desired status effects all happen with no bias. You can't bias your build to make a 10-stack of Viral for maximum damage happen quickly and effectively, you could be staggering the enemy all over the place, while setting it on fire, and your RNG with the Viral could mean you're stuck at minimum damage because that 40% or so of chance to not deal status rolls up more often for the necessary hits. (Out of 100 hits, a 60% status chance does not ensure that you get 60 status effects. It means that over millions of hits, you average out 60% of the hits have status. In practice, you could have 100 hits with no status effect and then hit status on every hit after that to make up the balance.)

i tried to read it multiple times to make sense, but it does not - atleast to me.

The weighted status has the same issues you described and you only have one instance of it to hope to get right,

or you did not read the example i had made , or i was not clear in explaining it.

you might indeed get impact or puncture , but you will also have a chance to get viral and heat as well

BIASING will still exist in the BASE damage.

The fact that UNDESIRABLE status effects exist is something that needs to be worked at separately.

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That is until you hit 100%. At that point, you have a literal 100% chance to proc everything. Meaning that you hit Viral every single time, you hit Heat every single time, you hit Slash and Impact and Puncture every single time.

While great for a Condition Overload melee build, you're literally returning the issue of the 100% Shotgun Status that DE deliberately removed from the game already. Except this time it's with every weapon. Meaning that, when coupled with the nerf to the damage-type status effects (that would only draw damage from their own elemental on the weapon), a weapon for later game would only be considered 'good' if you could reach that 100% status chance. (While still having decent crit),

 

I think your train of thought is different than what i am actually suggesting,

but yes if your weapon does reach 100% status it will give 3 status effects (one base , first elemental combo , second elemental combo) . HOWEVER the effectiveness of the DOT effects will indeed be lesser as overall damage per instance is lesser. so you have more status faster even if you don't get 100%.

And the whole "a weapon for later game" argument is bullS#&$.

What exactly is later game? Steel path ? 5 hour MOT? steel path farming in 5 hour MOT?

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Under the current weighting method, at 100% Status you are guaranteed 1 Status, there's a chance that you would not proc the one you want, but you would guarantee a status chance. At 200% Status chance there's a guaranteed chance to proc 2 Status, there's equal chance for those to not be what you want, but still, two. At less than 100% under the current system, there's a chance that you don't proc any status at all.

Under an instanced method, at 100% Status there's a guarantee to proc every status effect, every shot, double for any multi-shot you put on, and at 200% you just guarantee two instances of every status. Lower than 100% though, it's no different to current.

 

As if there are that many weapons you can get 100% status (forget about 200%) status without a suped riven and already screwing the biasing (and builds) you are trying to justify.

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That's not a good balance, because the Status Types are not balanced.

The damage types would get a nerf under your system, but the important ones, the ones that reduce defenses, buff our own damage, turn the enemy against each other and so on... those would get an equivalently larger buff.

 

Again , status types themselves being better or worse is its own issue that needs to be checked and has already been suggested.

I did say that this would be a nerf to direct damage but more application of status as an offset.

16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Meanwhile, player agency would have a hefty nerf because if a weapon can't crack the 100% chance, it's no different to now, and we could no longer bias our weapons to proc one element over the other, because no matter how much base damage they dealt, they would always have an even chance to proc with the other elemental types.

i still do not get your obsession with 100% status or its relevance, ALL instances will have equal chance to proc status no matter how low or high.

And you are also contradicting yourself by saying that the important status will get a buff while players get a nerf.

Please think things through before making statements, its difficult to understand your point.

20 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Apparently beam weapons were godlike when they first were added.

Also the problem with them trying to make 100% status on shotguns no longer relevant is it showcases why 100% was so relevant to begin with. The idea of dividing the status chance amongst the pellets is so ill conceived.

I was probably not there when they were first introduced.

yes, the idea was ill conceived, but i feel it was more a calculation error,

they had created shotguns when there was no way to reach 100% status, they just kept adding mechanics further while ignoring the base,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

That is a separate issue by itself. As there are clearly better and worse status effects to consider.

It is a point for a different discussion for sure.

i tried to read it multiple times to make sense, but it does not - atleast to me.

The weighted status has the same issues you described and you only have one instance of it to hope to get right,

or you did not read the example i had made , or i was not clear in explaining it.

you might indeed get impact or puncture , but you will also have a chance to get viral and heat as well

BIASING will still exist in the BASE damage.

The fact that UNDESIRABLE status effects exist is something that needs to be worked at separately.

I think your train of thought is different than what i am actually suggesting,

but yes if your weapon does reach 100% status it will give 3 status effects (one base , first elemental combo , second elemental combo) . HOWEVER the effectiveness of the DOT effects will indeed be lesser as overall damage per instance is lesser. so you have more status faster even if you don't get 100%.

And the whole "a weapon for later game" argument is bullS#&$.

What exactly is later game? Steel path ? 5 hour MOT? steel path farming in 5 hour MOT?

As if there are that many weapons you can get 100% status (forget about 200%) status without a suped riven and already screwing the biasing (and builds) you are trying to justify.

Again , status types themselves being better or worse is its own issue that needs to be checked and has already been suggested.

I did say that this would be a nerf to direct damage but more application of status as an offset.

i still do not get your obsession with 100% status or its relevance, ALL instances will have equal chance to proc status no matter how low or high.

And you are also contradicting yourself by saying that the important status will get a buff while players get a nerf.

Please think things through before making statements, its difficult to understand your point.

I was probably not there when they were first introduced.

yes, the idea was ill conceived, but i feel it was more a calculation error,

they had created shotguns when there was no way to reach 100% status, they just kept adding mechanics further while ignoring the base,

The error was DE saying that status stacking will make up for the massive nerf to status chance for shotguns. Not realizing that status stacking is available to every weapon type, and status stacking doesn’t matter to weapons that can barely proc status.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

tatus types themselves being better or worse is its own issue that needs to be checked and has already been suggested

Ahhh, I see where the confusion is coming in with this debate.

No, I completely disagree.

The status types being unbalanced is intrinsically linked to the changing of any and all other Status mechanics. More importantly because you will always have an imbalance of power in the status procs, because the game is unbalanced towards certain types of play across its game modes, you will never have a situation where the status types have an even balance and desirability.

What I'm saying is that you run the problem of something DE deliberately removed from the game because they don't want it happening; a situation where every status on your weapon procs on every single shot.

This was the problem with Shotguns, as I mentioned, where if you hit that magical point of 100% per pellet, every single one of those pellets proc'd a status and because of the high base pellet counts on weapons that did that, you could inflict every status at once, multiple times.

Having a system where, no matter whether the damage from those procs is nerfed or not, a weapon can reach a point where it procs every single modded status every single time is something that was absolutely not the desired effect of the elemental system.

Why was it undesired? Because of the imbalanced nature of Status. It's completely and inherently entwined.

You cannot address this issue from a pure focus on the one aspect.

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And you are also contradicting yourself by saying that the important status will get a buff while players get a nerf.

I'm not contradicting myself.

The current system, where the players can actually choose the status type on their weapon that procs more often than the others, is more reliable for status builds specifically because of the imbalance of power.

Without any way to specify which of your 'base', 'elemental' and 'second elemental' status effects procs the most often, you will lose that customisability. The damage itself will be customisable, but the status won't be.

Like I said with the Viral, Heat and Base example earlier, you want the Viral to stack up fast and stay stacked up, but for the Heat status you can only get one which refreshes and increases in damage, so you don't need that as often, while the other important status (Bleed) needs to proc regularly enough to improve your damage, meanwhile you don't want any of the others. With completely equal chances, and a non-guaranteed status build, you don't get that balance. Over 100% you get everything all at once, which will be fantastic for the Heat and Viral, but terrible for the undesirable Impact and Puncture.

It's a completely mixed bag of positives and negatives, if you don't have the high status chance you've made the build less reliable now, if you have higher than 100% you get undesirable results every time.

But, on the contrast, by returning that function shotguns had, you place that problem onto every single gun in the game. You have some guns that are ridiculously powerful because they can lay down status chance with every shot and have the raw damage and crit stats to power through whatever nerf to Status Damage you enforce. And then you have every other gun, that can't do that, and so is automatically relegated to Mastery Fodder.

And it's all because you are trying to view it in a vacuum of probability, not practical application and the inherent link between the status you deal and the imbalanced results you get.

This is why Status would get a buff, but players would get a nerf.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this, if that's not a clear enough explanation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And it's all because you are trying to view it in a vacuum of probability, not practical application and the inherent link between the status you deal and the imbalanced results you get.

This is why Status would get a buff, but players would get a nerf.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this, if that's not a clear enough explanation.

I do disagree - we can indeed leave it at that for now,

Undesirable status effects exist mostly cause they eat into the more useful ones, with my consideration that issue will be reduced.

And there will both be nerfs and buffs to get the equation right , but not quite how you described them.

 

and as i mentioned this is only one aspect -with emphasis on the means of application.

it is not in vaccum , it is structured, but i can understand if it looks like that.

it is part of a much larger change that cannot be incorporated in one discussion - but each part of the process needs to be looked at and discussed

cant really put damage types, status effects, enemy resistance, mandatory mods , frame ability and stat synergy, weapon handling stat changes , ammo economy , leveling impact in a single discussion , would be too much chaos.

i think its more cause i cant really show what my thought process for the holistic change is that we cant really go further.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...