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The "Enhanced" Graphics Engine reduces Eclipse damage by 83% - Why Eclipse has to be reimagined


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I spent an hour testing the effective damage buff that mirage gets from her Eclipse buff in the orb vallis during an entire cycle while standing still in one open spot.  
This time around, I did it twice; once with the classic engine, once with the "enhanced" engine that was added two days ago.  
The results are terrifying:

bKOBb3G.png


We observe that classic > 4 months ago > "enhanced".

The classic system gives higher buffs than 4 months ago, as measured in this post. We (Profit-Taker speedrunners) only picked up on this change three days ago as we normally don't run whenever we expect to get bad damage buffs. The buff may have been present since the first ensmallening update or update 29.2.0.

The classic system looks nice, but it will soon be replaced with the "enhanced" version, which will consistently give 83% damage less than the current version.  
Put it another way, you get 6 times more damage by altering your graphics settings.  
While this would probably eventually be fixed, this shows that Eclipse cannot continue to work as it currently does.   
Over the course of 4 months Eclipse has been buffed and nerfed at least twice without DE even knowing or intending it.

There are a multitude of ways how DE can and perhaps should change the ability, as has already been suggested many times in different posts by a multitude of users. Here are some of these suggestions:

1. Make Eclipse either give the full DR or give the full damage buff.
2. If 1. is not adopted, update the UI to constantly show the current damage buff.
3. If 1. is not adopted, at least make sure that you get a minimum of 50% DR and half the damage buff, then scale from there.
4. Make Eclipse snapshot (remember) the buff, such that the light value when casting it is used to determine the buff for the remainder of the duration. Note that this already happens if you go invisible.
5. Make Eclipse give the damage or DR buff based on her emissive color or make it a tap/hold ability.


Additionally, I would like to note that the augment mod Prism Guard is not a proper solution. It's a band-aid, and a bad one at that. 
Four seconds base duration means that with a reasonable 200% duration you still have to spend 1/4th of the time casting the ability to keep it up. This is not acceptable.  
The additional energy upkeep for just trying to make Eclipse work puts the final nail in the coffin.


TL;DR: If the classic system gets replaced with the "enhanced" graphics engine in its current form, you lose 83% of the damage that you currently get with Eclipse.
DE is buffing and nerfing the frame without knowing it and therefore should change how Eclipse works as a whole.

Method, data, links:

Reddit crosspost

Last time's post

For those that may wonder what method I used to determine the results: I used the Profit-Taker to generate pylons which take object damage and stay stationary. I used Zenith to punch through the shields from a far enough distance so I could stay in roughly the same spot. I used an extinguished key so the pylons would survive long enough. The video (extremely boring and long) can be found here.

The data used to generate the graph can be found here

Update:
Steve confirmed the bug and that it is getting fixed.  
I want to point out that this still doesn't solve the underlying issue: Lighting-based abilities remove player choice and are inconsistent. People have been complaining about this for decades.  
Getting a maximum of 95% damage resistance doesn't matter if you're getting 20% damage resistance in practice. 95% damage resistance gives you 16.7 times more effective health than 20%.  
Getting a maximum of 600% damage doesn't matter if you're instead getting low amounts of DR.  
The player rarely has a choice of which lighting conditions they're in, especially for extended periods of time. This is why Eclipse has to change.

Devstream update:
This post was mentioned on Home devstream #7.  
Turns out they literally didn't include the sun in their calculations. If I understood it correctly, removing the sun gives them "really high detailed maps, lights and shadows", but they need to include it for Eclipse and other light-based abilities. Steve didn't seem very happy about it, so maybe/hopefully they're finally going to deprecate light-based abilities and instead opt for another solution.

Edited by Iterniam
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1 minute ago, Quimoth said:

wait, it is actually linked to how light/dark it is? I thought is was either dark/light and then you got the buff.

You only get a percentage of the buff that is listed in the UI.

Worst case old: this was around 5%
Average case "enhanced": this is around 16%.

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I think we all know that the way Eclipse works was a gimmick when introduced, and if Mirage came out today, with held/tap and ability wheel being in the game, she would use some version of that to change which buff was active.

 

Edit: I think it would be cool if it went from duration to drain, with 'Tap' activating and deactivating the ability, and a held click to switch between offense and defense.

Edited by hs0003
wanted to add more
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I posted on reddit on how to rework Eclipse some time ago. Because making it dependent on which part of the map you are, IMO, doesn't fit in Warframe.

 

Edited by RobRalneR
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19 minutes ago, hs0003 said:

I think it would be cool if it went from duration to drain, with 'Tap' activating and deactivating the ability, and a held click to switch between offense and defense.

I personally don’t like energy drain over time but having a toggle to pick the buff we want has been something I’ve wanted since first learning how the ability works

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59 minutes ago, Iterniam said:

Additionally, I would like to note that the augment mod Prism Guard is not a proper solution. It's a band-aid, and a bad one at that. 
Four seconds base duration means that with a reasonable 200% duration you still have to spend 1/4th of the time casting the ability to keep it up. This is not acceptable.  
The additional energy upkeep for just trying to make Eclipse work puts the final nail in the coffin.


TL;DR: If the classic system gets replaced with the "enhanced" graphics engine in its current form, you lose 83% of the damage that you currently get with Eclipse.
DE is buffing and nerfing the frame without knowing it and therefore should change how Eclipse works as a whole.

Thanks for taking the time to test this and for sharing your results.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

oh, honey... honey... no...

Haha it took a while to write, but I waited a day with posting it and forgot to update the relative timings. I have updated them now, thanks :)

Edited by Iterniam
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Damn.
And I thought I had done a decent job of testing for trying to figure out the issue with Marked Target on Velocitus.
That's small peanuts to this.

Eclipse is like 50% of Mirage's frequently-used kit, most of her damage output, and it's the Helminth ability for her.
Wow.

That's such a bizarre bug man, but I'm really glad you found it.
I'll try to spread the knowledge of this in the hopes that DE hears about it.

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God, please let it be IT.

Mirage is not Limbo, time to stop joking with her.

P.S. I'm impressed. They actually manage to do it this way. Not sure it genuis, or just another level of spagetti code, but i'm imperessed.

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so many ways that could make the current mechanics better and even more engaging, or to make new mechanics entirely, and so many ways that have been not bothered with for years, even when they had stuff to sell for it like when they released Prime.
since Prime already came and went, the 'not salable business interest' excuse goes out the door, you already have that opportunity but didn't bother. you just didn't bother.

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Looks like this is being investigated.

I am a little worried what the "fix" is. Hopefully Mirage gets a nice QoL update to Eclipse with Tap/Hold or using energy color rather than the inconsistent mess it has been for years.

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mirage and atlas and inaros are all technically desert themed, i think they should get some proper revisions and themes to follow up, as far as the new graphics engine, am impressed, but i did not notice much happening in the orbiter in atmospheric or weather terms, so it would be good to have ordis sparkle up the lights flicker or a meteor hit the ship occasionally shaking and causing dimming and realistic effects like railjack except less dangerous when just sitting there in different parts of the ship, because not everyplayer has unlocked the helminth system or has just came back it will be neccesary to have other zaws, scafolds and segments which fit to craft weapons and armor to enhance each orbiter and the relays which remain static would need other changes, i always picture some racing game and lunaro or bums hanging around the docks with the mechanics like real-life , otherwise they got spare bounties, blueprints and bodyguard /escorts and sub-missions- / upgrades which the players can use in other planets and nodes, destiny 2 has a few unlockable secrets through like our game, there are a few enhanced consoles and lockers/rooms with hidden items or a lore "cache", but otherwise players dont know and rush to extraction, i been playing "tracmania" alot. So F1 racing is cool, some cars are really loud though, Nadeo has weird water mechanics, i hope warframe can get some sort of water physics we just respawn in our game.

mirage has a few cool tricks 

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22 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Eclipse should have always just given the full buff for light or shadow -or- shown the actual bonus you're receiving.

i like the dynamic nature of it personally, just not how we interact with that dynamic nature.
it could be something pretty cool, if light and dark was something the Player had sortof control over with other Abilities, on things that would be static and temporary in the environment, with the strength of those emissions being related to the use of the Abilities (not Power Strength, based on how they are used).

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Wait....... So you're saying that Mirage's Eclipse ability determines the lighting levels based on what/how your computer renders and NOT based on some absolute or nominally determined lighting levels?

Does this mean I can crank my Alpha or otherwise abuse my lighting setting/bloom intensity to influence the state and intensity of Eclipse? 

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4 hours ago, Raso719 said:

Does this mean I can crank my Alpha or otherwise abuse my lighting setting/bloom intensity to influence the state and intensity of Eclipse? 

no.
it's based on a predetermined lighting Mesh. some dynamic sources can influence it however. but none of those are Video Setting related, rather things you do in the game.

Edited by taiiat
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also emails with coordinates should encourage the orbiter or large ship to its locations, this also could mean that in the future old emails could be useful bounties or sub-quest or npc lik ethe syndicate with more robotics and citizens to enhance the lore and gameplay of building and resource/gathering alot of oplayers are already in the towns and dojos so its posible to interweave that with the buddy system or watever spectre/.bodyguards to hire or pvp, relay to baro in the email, still gotta click the navigations console and the keywords have no other purpose or quickie responses, so maybe the baro email shuld get some other enhancements or thingy i picture a dog or npc crew people and exclusive music for baro in the future or there could be some BARO EXCLUSIVE MODS with his facecard or printpaw....idk...the fisher hailuk also has no mods or weapons, this would be an excellent place to sell knives and blueprints or zaws with various fishing apparatuses turned to claws for combat and guns , etc.

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8 hours ago, SnakeBadger said:

also emails with coordinates should encourage the orbiter or large ship to its locations, this also could mean that in the future old emails could be useful bounties or sub-quest or npc lik ethe syndicate with more robotics and citizens to enhance the lore and gameplay of building and resource/gathering alot of oplayers are already in the towns and dojos so its posible to interweave that with the buddy system or watever spectre/.bodyguards to hire or pvp, relay to baro in the email, still gotta click the navigations console and the keywords have no other purpose or quickie responses, so maybe the baro email shuld get some other enhancements or thingy i picture a dog or npc crew people and exclusive music for baro in the future or there could be some BARO EXCLUSIVE MODS with his facecard or printpaw....idk...the fisher hailuk also has no mods or weapons, this would be an excellent place to sell knives and blueprints or zaws with various fishing apparatuses turned to claws for combat and guns , etc.

I fail to see how any of that is related.

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