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Ideas on better rewards for Steel Path.


Caliboom

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17 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

no ones forcing anything ? steel path would still be optional as always , having better rewards for doing longer runs doesnt hurt anybody . If most people would prefer steel path versions of kuva farming and relics etc. that'd be on them anyway , op's suggestions are not forced acts as in a requiremnts for mainline story quests and such ..

Let me explain it easier for you: 

Warframe Karens love to use the excuse "since DE added x, now I'm forced to do it".

Let me give you a real life example from these forums:

"Kuva liches are dumb and I dont even like the content, but since they added mastery now I'm forced to participate, I wish they didnt add mastery."

People actually say stuff like this. 

People make it up in their head that they must have something now. Normal, rational people and DE wanted Steel Path to not have a bunch of fluff to keep it about one thing: the higher level enemies. That's it. 

We don't want some Warframe Karen coming to the forums angry saying "This is bs DE, since you added better rewards to Steel path, now I'm forced to fight your dumb bullet sponges."

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Its has already turned into another kuva farm....why do you need more? DE isn't obligated to enable your kuva and riven addiction.

How about you play Steel path while continuing to do things like endurance Taveuni runs along with arbitrations? Nightwave also have 10k kuva. You have the 6k from sorties as well. Arbitrations and Steel Path will let you stack 10k kuva all day alone. 

It has turned into a kuva farm because steel essence is only worth spending on kuva (since there are practically no other rewards), and the other kuva modes are already kinda repeated into boredom. So the reason to want more from SP is because it should go hand in hand, risk vs reward in these types of games. Higher risk, higher reward, it is only natural.

It is redundant to do arbitrations for Kuva if you can handle SP effectively since it is the same reward in the end and arbis are RNG based, lower level and simply more boring. SP has the density of multiplayer when doing survival solo, it becomes more hectic and interesting even though it is more or less trivial. Why do arbis when they simply arent interesting? Same as there is no reason to do Taveuni in normal since it is trivial and in SP the rewards dont scale with the higher risk. The only time I consider Taveuni nowdays is if a fissure is active there, so I can crack requiems for extra possible kuva.

It still doesnt mean SP is in a good enough spot when it comes to rewards, since it is a more risky mode but with the same reward more or less. I'm also not sure why you bring up finite things like NW or RNG based time gated things like sorties. Neither are replacements for the actual grind since they take up about 15 minutes of your day, and in NWs case it isnt worth it to go out of your way for 15 currency, it is only worth it if it can be done doing whatever else you do.

28 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

I presume you've not joined a steel essence farming squad yet have you?...

Once you get into one, trust me, you'll be flooding with them. Don't forget, Steel Essence drop chances are 2x the oberon part chance from eximus. An I'm pretty sure that you're flooding with those at least once in your time playing.

The problem is that it takes around 45 minutes before you get to see steel essence on a regular basis, they are also not effected by loot frame abilities, so a squad makes absolutely zero difference aslong as there is a properly built Khora present. DE missed the mark with SP since they wanted to add it so people didnt feel forced to stay long in order to get to wortwhile content, which is the exact opposite of what they've done, since you need to stay around 70 minutes to get anything out of your run, at that time you have yet to face any considerable threat aswell. 70 minutes is the avarage time it takes to get 15 essence with no boosters on a frame that kills fast enough to maintain atleast a 90% oxygen level throughout the run without using towers. If you are sitting on a frame that cannot pull that off you are looking at much longer runs to hit that avarage since your eximus spawn will be far lower per minute.

 

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

It is... not. You are losing way too much affinity and resources if you are not running it. Though, I do not agree with OP either. The only two things SP needs is removal of none relic rewards from mission rewards and adding Umbra forma to Teshin.

Will the Umbra forma be 10,000 Steel essence? Because that's the only way they should be added. You are aware there's people getting 300+ an endurance run, correct? 

Umbras will flood the entire game in 2 months. 

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Seriously try maybe actually farming instead of doing a 2minute mission. 

You're aware people are getting 300+ in one endurance run, correct? 

Nope not at except for that one place where you can have macros do the job for you will your sleeping 

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Will the Umbra forma be 10,000 Steel essence? Because that's the only way they should be added. You are aware there's people getting 300+ an endurance run, correct? 

Umbras will flood the entire game in 2 months. 

I do not see an issue with Umbra forma being available. It is not meta for all frames. There is no logical reason for to be rarer then Aura forma or Excilus Adapters. No reason at all to be dropping at a rate of 2 per year.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

You are aware there's people getting 300+ an endurance run, correct? 
 

Your response is pretty disingenuous, because 300+ SE is only possible  with a meta group and boosters after about 4-5 hours. Some meta groups can do 10x3 eidolons too. Maybe we should only give a 1/4 of a arcane and to punish teamwork there also?

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2 hours ago, Uan91 said:

I'm fine with it but not with endo. Endo must be earned in arbitrations, otherwise you might remove the arbitrations aswell, no one would play it.

i'd argue arbitrations are still usable since you get some pretty good arcanes and mods exclusive to them

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5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It has turned into a kuva farm because steel essence is only worth spending on kuva (since there are practically no other rewards), and the other kuva modes are already kinda repeated into boredom. So the reason to want more from SP is because it should go hand in hand, risk vs reward in these types of games. Higher risk, higher reward, it is only natural.

There's absolutely no risk involved for capable or veteran players. It's actually a normal starchart mission for experienced players. If you find it difficult then the regular starchart is where you belong. You are obviously welcome to the Steel Path, but it is not to compensate you for your weak build. 

It is redundant to do arbitrations for Kuva if you can handle SP effectively since it is the same reward in the end and arbis are RNG based, lower level and simply more boring. SP has the density of multiplayer when doing survival solo, it becomes more hectic and interesting even though it is more or less trivial. Why do arbis when they simply arent interesting? Same as there is no reason to do Taveuni in normal since it is trivial and in SP the rewards dont scale with the higher risk. The only time I consider Taveuni nowdays is if a fissure is active there, so I can crack requiems for extra possible kuva.

It is only your opinion if you find something boring or not interesting. That is not an excuse or valid reason to not do something. That is your choice and you made it alone. It is also not redundant, it's called "another option". Arbitrations still have rewards other than kuva, so if I play arbitrations to get arcanes to use or sell, I also get kuva as a by-product. DE isn't obligated to give you more kuva "just because you want it". 

It still doesnt mean SP is in a good enough spot when it comes to rewards, since it is a more risky mode but with the same reward more or less. I'm also not sure why you bring up finite things like NW or RNG based time gated things like sorties. Neither are replacements for the actual grind since they take up about 15 minutes of your day, and in NWs case it isnt worth it to go out of your way for 15 currency, it is only worth it if it can be done doing whatever else you do.

Once again the Steel Path is not there to offer a bunch of rewards for reasons already stated in the thread, and by DE. Once again, ways to acquire kuva are supplemental to each other, that means by participating in all the content that gives it, you passively acquire more over time since you've accessed multiple resources of it. 

You're under the impression you should be able to farm unnecessary amounts of kuva in one spot, and no one has even promised that to you or made it an obligation to you. If you want it then work for it. There's already people with 2 million kuva.

The problem is that it takes around 45 minutes before you get to see steel essence on a regular basis, they are also not effected by loot frame abilities, so a squad makes absolutely zero difference aslong as there is a properly built Khora present. DE missed the mark with SP since they wanted to add it so people didnt feel forced to stay long in order to get to wortwhile content, which is the exact opposite of what they've done, since you need to stay around 70 minutes to get anything out of your run, at that time you have yet to face any considerable threat aswell. 70 minutes is the avarage time it takes to get 15 essence with no boosters on a frame that kills fast enough to maintain a 90% oxygen level throughout the run without using towers. If you are sitting on a frame that cannot pull that off you are looking at much longer runs to hit that avarage since your eximus spawn will be far lower per minute.

It's up to DE to make that change, if they dont, then you'll have to deal with it. They're once again, not obligated to give you easier access to kuva simply because you want it faster.

 

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I do not see an issue with Umbra forma being available. It is not meta for all frames. There is no logical reason for to be rarer then Aura forma or Excilus Adapters. No reason at all to be dropping at a rate of 2 per year.

Of course you don't see an issue with a rare item flooding the market. It's because you want it and want more of them, even though "It is not meta for all frames." It's up to DE, it doesn't matter if you randomly, for no underlying reason at all....see no issue with it.

You don't think Umbra Vitality and Umbra Intensify would be meta at all, right? Even though Vitality and some form of strength is basically meta for most builds besides speed nova and a couple other exceptions.

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2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

I was thinking, since there's no point in doing Steel Path upon completion, I had some ideas for better rewards for endless missions. the rewards are the following:

- Refined relics instead of normal relics

- Higher amounts of endo than obtained in normal missions

- Steel Path exclusive mods instead of normal mods (maybe amalgam mods?)

- Steel Essence for Rotation C

- 1.5x the Kuva in Kuva Survival, 2x the Kuva in Kuva Disruption

- Much higher amount of credits, I'm thinking 20k credit caches instead of 1500, 50k instead of 2500.

What do you think? I think it would give people a reason to play Steel Path instead of it being an abandoned gamemode.

i think copy Arbitration homework don't make Steel path any cooler

seriously, Steel Path are design to attract people that are fine with stay camping in the same mission for 2-3 hours on ends and also hate arbitrations rotational reward for getting in the way of them farming Vitus Essence to turn into Kuva.

Since kuva is the end point for both of the mission, with arbi being the more generalist in rewards, adding more irrelevant things to steel path now would just backfired the intention

 

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2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- Refined relics instead of normal relics

Now, what is the reason behind this, especially when ESO gives radiant relics?

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- Higher amounts of endo than obtained in normal missions

And possibly making it a place where people who are not ready flock the place and being a burden for the team? We have arbitration for that

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- Steel Path exclusive mods instead of normal mods (maybe amalgam mods?)

Are you sure this won't cause any outrage or platinum economy problem?

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- Steel Essence for Rotation C

This is possible to implement

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- 1.5x the Kuva in Kuva Survival, 2x the Kuva in Kuva Disruption

 

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

- Much higher amount of credits, I'm thinking 20k credit caches instead of 1500, 50k instead of 2500.

Look at endo problem

2 hours ago, Caliboom said:

What do you think? I think it would give people a reason to play Steel Path instead of it being an abandoned gamemode.

Barely any reason given other than being another farming place that will be abused by leechers so no, thank you

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

See, I could agree with slightly better Steel Path rewards but I gotta find DrivaMain's point more compelling.

 

Steel Path is not how I want Warframe to be balanced. Therefore, I don't want Steel Path to become closer to the main stream of the game, because by and large Steel Path is a dull slog against tougher enemies but with no real interesting changes to mechanics underlying it. It's basically just a gear check. It is, in itself, a mildly interesting idea, but, uh, well. Here is a statement that you may not like, but which is still true:

DE wanted to experiment with making Warframe more challenging and all that they could think of was to keep everything the same but make all the numbers 300% bigger.

 

And with our power, spelling death to every single enemy in 50 meters radius, how do you make it challenging?

My best effort is this

 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It has turned into a kuva farm because steel essence is only worth spending on kuva (since there are practically no other rewards), and the other kuva modes are already kinda repeated into boredom. So the reason to want more from SP is because it should go hand in hand, risk vs reward in these types of games. Higher risk, higher reward, it is only natural.

There's absolutely no risk involved for capable or veteran players. It's actually a normal starchart mission for experienced players. If you find it difficult then the regular starchart is where you belong. You are obviously welcome to the Steel Path, but it is not to compensate you for your weak build. 

It is redundant to do arbitrations for Kuva if you can handle SP effectively since it is the same reward in the end and arbis are RNG based, lower level and simply more boring. SP has the density of multiplayer when doing survival solo, it becomes more hectic and interesting even though it is more or less trivial. Why do arbis when they simply arent interesting? Same as there is no reason to do Taveuni in normal since it is trivial and in SP the rewards dont scale with the higher risk. The only time I consider Taveuni nowdays is if a fissure is active there, so I can crack requiems for extra possible kuva.

It is only your opinion if you find something boring or not interesting. That is not an excuse or valid reason to not do something. That is your choice and you made it alone. It is also not redundant, it's called "another option". Arbitrations still have rewards other than kuva, so if I play arbitrations to get arcanes to use or sell, I also get kuva as a by-product. DE isn't obligated to give you more kuva "just because you want it". 

It still doesnt mean SP is in a good enough spot when it comes to rewards, since it is a more risky mode but with the same reward more or less. I'm also not sure why you bring up finite things like NW or RNG based time gated things like sorties. Neither are replacements for the actual grind since they take up about 15 minutes of your day, and in NWs case it isnt worth it to go out of your way for 15 currency, it is only worth it if it can be done doing whatever else you do.

Once again the Steel Path is not there to offer a bunch of rewards for reasons already stated in the thread, and by DE. Once again, ways to acquire kuva are supplemental to each other, that means by participating in all the content that gives it, you passively acquire more over time since you've accessed multiple resources of it. 

You're under the impression you should be able to farm unnecessary amounts of kuva in one spot, and no one has even promised that to you or made it an obligation to you. If you want it then work for it. There's already people with 2 million kuva.

The problem is that it takes around 45 minutes before you get to see steel essence on a regular basis, they are also not effected by loot frame abilities, so a squad makes absolutely zero difference aslong as there is a properly built Khora present. DE missed the mark with SP since they wanted to add it so people didnt feel forced to stay long in order to get to wortwhile content, which is the exact opposite of what they've done, since you need to stay around 70 minutes to get anything out of your run, at that time you have yet to face any considerable threat aswell. 70 minutes is the avarage time it takes to get 15 essence with no boosters on a frame that kills fast enough to maintain a 90% oxygen level throughout the run without using towers. If you are sitting on a frame that cannot pull that off you are looking at much longer runs to hit that avarage since your eximus spawn will be far lower per minute.

It's up to DE to make that change, if they dont, then you'll have to deal with it. They're once again, not obligated to give you easier access to kuva simply because you want it faster.

There is always a higher risk since enemies will kill you more easily while also having more eHP. Risk =/= difficulty or challenge though. But since the risk is higher the reward should also match that. Having the same reward in a mode that requires 15 consecutive hits to take you out and in a mode that takes 2 hits to take you out isnt balance, since the mode that only requires 2 hits to kill you is obviously more risk filled.

Even though it is an opinion, downgrading to snooze modes isnt a solution. It just highlights the issue of SP even more, and the other modes aswell. And it is redundant since it does the same thing as something else, so it adds nothing. While arbis have other rewards, it is very pointless to do arbis if you already have those rewards, at which point only kuva is worthwhile, at which point SP is simply more "fun". You also fail to see the point which isnt about "moar kuva!", it is about risk versus reward and that is that. Kuva just happens to be the most worthwhile resource that is left to obtain at the point I'm at.

Steel Path isnt there for any reason at all since it doesnt live up to the bulletpoints that they posted for it. It isnt a shortcut to worthwhile content and so on. We need to stay long periods to get anything wortwhile from the mode, both when it comes to more "interesting" encounters and rewards. And no I'm not under the impression I should be able to far unnecessary amounts of kuva in one spot, so stop putting words in my mouth (fingers/text). I'm talking about balanced risk vs reward and nothing else. I cant help if you have trouble grasping that concept and decide to make everything about extremes. There isnt just a white and black version, there is a large grey area where balance should end up. It also doesnt matter if there are people with 2 million kuva already since that tells us jack and squat. Have they farmed for days, weeks, months, years? Anecdotal hookums is what it is and nothing concrete.

It is about everything in steel path, not just kuva. It is the steel essence that is slow to get early on. I'm not asking for more steel essence, I'm asking for a balanced steel essence spread from minute 1 to minute 1000 so those first 45 minutes arent a complete drag. Which was the whole point of SP, to not require people to sit there for long amounts of time in endless before things start to get worthwile.

I wonder who it is that is actually obsessed with kuva here, since you scew everything that is being said to be about kuva and only kuva. Completely missing the bigger picture.

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8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is always a higher risk since enemies will kill you more easily while also having more eHP. Risk =/= difficulty or challenge though. But since the risk is higher the reward should also match that. Having the same reward in a mode that requires 15 consecutive hits to take you out and in a mode that takes 2 hits to take you out isnt balance, since the mode that only requires 2 hits to kill you is obviously more risk filled.

Even though it is an opinion, downgrading to snooze modes isnt a solution. It just highlights the issue of SP even more, and the other modes aswell. And it is redundant since it does the same thing as something else, so it adds nothing. While arbis have other rewards, it is very pointless to do arbis if you already have those rewards, at which point only kuva is worthwhile, at which point SP is simply more "fun". You also fail to see the point which isnt about "moar kuva!", it is about risk versus reward and that is that. Kuva just happens to be the most worthwhile resource that is left to obtain at the point I'm at.

Steel Path isnt there for any reason at all since it doesnt live up to the bulletpoints that they posted for it. It isnt a shortcut to worthwhile content and so on. We need to stay long periods to get anything wortwhile from the mode, both when it comes to more "interesting" encounters and rewards. And no I'm not under the impression I should be able to far unnecessary amounts of kuva in one spot, so stop putting words in my mouth (fingers/text). I'm talking about balanced risk vs reward and nothing else. I cant help if you have trouble grasping that concept and decide to make everything about extremes. There isnt just a white and black version, there is a large grey area where balance should end up. It also doesnt matter if there are people with 2 million kuva already since that tells us jack and squat. Have they farmed for days, weeks, months, years? Anecdotal hookums is what it is and nothing concrete.

It is about everything in steel path, not just kuva. It is the steel essence that is slow to get early on. I'm not asking for more steel essence, I'm asking for a balanced steel essence spread from minute 1 to minute 1000 so those first 45 minutes arent a complete drag. Which was the whole point of SP, to not require people to sit there for long amounts of time in endless before things start to get worthwile.

I wonder who it is that is actually obsessed with kuva here, since you scew everything that is being said to be about kuva and only kuva. Completely missing the bigger picture.

"Which was the whole point of SP, to not require people to sit there for long amounts of time in endless before things start to get worthwile." 

Now who's putting words in people's mouths.....

You are aware the whole point of Steel Path was to not wait 45min to an hour to fight high level enemies. I was there dude....I was one of those people complaining that I should not have to start out one-tapping level 40 enemies and waiting forever to get up to 100 or 140 for example. 

The goal has been met.....there is no waiting....the enemies are high level as soon as you walk in....

Steel path was about easier access to high level enemies, not high level rewards". I already have all the rewards I need. I did not want anything else except high level enemies.....

You either weren't aware of this....or you lied to change the narrative....so which was it? 

It's no one's fault if you get killed in 2 hits....like I said...this mode isn't to reward your weak playstyle and build. 

 

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)amazing021throne said:

When did I ever say to cheat

"Nope not at except for that one place where you can have macros do the job for you will your sleeping"

Did you say this? Yes or no? 

Oh I get it, the word "cheating" throws you off. How about "playing afk", is that better? 

I asked you if you farm instead of doing 2 minute missions....you said "no, except for that one place where you can have macros do the job for you while sleeping".

So....do you not farm unless you can play afk?

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

"Which was the whole point of SP, to not require people to sit there for long amounts of time in endless before things start to get worthwile." 

Now who's putting words in people's mouths.....

You are aware the whole point of Steel Path was to not wait 45min to an hour to fight high level enemies. I was there dude....I was one of those people complaining that I should not have to start out one-tapping level 40 enemies and waiting forever to get up to 100 or 140 for example. 

The goal has been met.....there is no waiting....the enemies are high level as soon as you walk in....

Steel path was about easier access to high level enemies, not high level rewards". I already have all the rewards I need. I did not want anything else except high level enemies.....

You either weren't aware of this....or you lied to change the narrative....so which was it? 

It's no one's fault if you get killed in 2 hits....like I said...this mode isn't to reward your weak playstyle and build. 

 

The enemies are not high as we enter, the new scaling has gimped them severely. Things still get 1-shot well after the hour mark even. So it is the same as before, gimping yourself to feel the scaling hit you faster, either by picking a less desired frame or simply flat out gimp your loadout. So the goal has very much not been met since we still need to wait. You still also fail to see the issue since you highlight "high level rewards", which isnt the case at all. It is about simple balance.

And wow, personal insults. That is rich. Not only that but you jump to such things after failing to comprehend an example that simply shows the difference versus risks. Maybe I should have said 20 hits versus 10 hits. Na you would have jumped to the "durburghur weak buildstyle!" eitherway since you cant stick to a civil discussion. I think Russel Crowe starred you in a movie quite recently, or was it Mark Ruffalo...

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

"Nope not at except for that one place where you can have macros do the job for you will your sleeping"

Did you say this? Yes or no? 

I think you need to look at his response again.

You said

"You're aware people are getting 300+ in one endurance run, correct?"

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Nope not at except for that one place where you can have macros do the job for you will your sleeping

Which means No he isn't aware that people are getting 300 steel essence and that the only place he knows people are getting a lot is that place in Uranus where they were afk farming

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