Loza03 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said: So here's the problem with such a long and complicated justification. At the start of this conversation I claimed that DE was responsible for poor planning, and that they were also directly responsible for poor delivery. Your retort back is "but corona." My retort is that DE controls their release schedule, size, and scope. As such, no. You cannot both claim some magical corona virus interference unique to DE and cite that because work was done in 2019 that I want it to just be scrapped....both your exact suggestions about my expectations. You now suggest that was never the case, and that because in early 2020 there was a shift, we should accept them releasing badly....again. Ah, I see the problem. I am, specifically, referring to the statement that you think DE chose not to move forward, which I interpret as 'not making strides to progress the game or innovate content' - the latter being a reasonable conclusion, as this year has not shown any particularly innovative content or substantially new systems. My retort is pretty much entirely to do with that statement - that DE have not had much room to be particularly innovative and push the game forwards this year. As I've said, multiple times, I have literally no issues with people criticizing the content itself. I've made criticisms to that effect myself. Whether I agree or disagree with that is besides the point that DE are human beings and should be treated as such. 11 hours ago, master_of_destiny said: On one hand I need to feel bad, because they have to do what literally everyone else did and alter plans to deal with a pandemic. I should feel sympathy. I don't. You may not get why, but there are plenty of businesses where the pandemic didn't change delivery requirements. It didn't let you work from home. It didn't let you decide that delivering your product was a choice. Despite that' we continued to work. I'm sorry people have convinced you their profit matters more than your health and life. It doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)FlameDivinity Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 12 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said: Honestly I'm not sure if there's any deeper meaning other than things like, I enjoy how they look. My favorite color is purple and growing up in the 80s/90 most comic book and cartoon villains were purple. Skeletor, Shredder, Magneto, Frieza, the Joker, the Decepticons, etc. The good guys also always looked much more lame, I mean Megatron turned into a gun. Optimus prime was a red truck. Skeletor was a skeleton, He-man was a mostly naked blonde guy. Bad guys win 110% when it comes to character design in my book. Oh I definitely understand that. My favorite color is purple too, and I do agree the majority of superheroes are boring in design in my opinion as well. I can totally see where you're coming from. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me on that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 dont even know whats going on here anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_of_destiny Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Loza03 said: Ah, I see the problem. I am, specifically, referring to the statement that you think DE chose not to move forward, which I interpret as 'not making strides to progress the game or innovate content' - the latter being a reasonable conclusion, as this year has not shown any particularly innovative content or substantially new systems. My retort is pretty much entirely to do with that statement - that DE have not had much room to be particularly innovative and push the game forwards this year. As I've said, multiple times, I have literally no issues with people criticizing the content itself. I've made criticisms to that effect myself. Whether I agree or disagree with that is besides the point that DE are human beings and should be treated as such. I'm sorry people have convinced you their profit matters more than your health and life. It doesn't. We can agree on a different perspective to the first point. To the later...are you insane? You have no idea about what I am or do. Let me list out all of the things that are required, just so this game can exist. Maybe after that you'll understand that this isn't about profit, so much as having a world left once things return to normal. DE requires staff, servers, electricity, hardware, and software to make this run. Staff require: -Medical support, including doctors, pharmacists, nurses, drug manufacturers, the supply chains for the manufacturers, and the associated delivery structures. -Food. That's everything from the local grocer, to the stockers, to the delivery structure, to the farmers, to the people who produce farm equipment, and their infrastructure. -Communication tools. Hello twitch, remote communication products, internet infrastructure, and related things. -Etc... I'm thinking about child care, banking, and a lot of tertiary resources that you don't often think of. Servers require: -Regular maintenance and upkeep, so IT. -New hardware and software. Hello engineers, manufacturers, and even grounds keepers to maintain function. Electricity requires: -Raw material handling (no matter the generation method). -Maintenance and upkeep staff. -Management and repair teams. Hardware and Software requires: -Engineering teams. -Maintenance an upkeep. -Development teams, including testers and QA. Note that I haven't touched on water. I haven't touched on maintenance of vehicles. I haven't discussed the myriad of PR resources. I haven't actually touched on many of the critical jobs that are needed just to make sure this game runs. The statement that I value my health less, because I value my ability to live rather than just survive, is idiotic. Let me ask you a personal question, because you seem quite inadequately setup to understand the world. Exactly how many people touch something as simple but necessary to your life as a single cup of potable water, delivered to you in your home? Now, imagine you couldn't get one because any of those links in the chain decided not to come into work for months, because they feared for their life more than they valued you. I'll wait. Now, let me educate another person about history. Why does the CDC exist? Why does the WHO exist? Well, because crap like the H1N1 virus happened. That's the Spanish Flu of 1918. 50 million estimated worldwide deaths, functionally the same measures in New York as with modern Covid, and it was 100 years ago. Read up. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html In response to that we developed things like the CDC and WHO. The world acknowledged that infectious diseases were a threat, and they poured money into organizations to help fight them. Since the early 1900's we've largely had it easy. No real pandemics, though there were plenty of scares. In my lifetime I remember Avian Flu, SARA, MERS, Noravirus, and one or two others that were effectively contained by the international community. Nobody lied, restrictions were imposed when needed, and these were things that were such a phantasmal threat that people actually decided to become anti-vaccine because they'd never known the ravages of Measels, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, or other conditions that vaccines largely had relegated to history books. The one constant amongst all of this is that no matter the situation, life had to continue. You and I still need shelter, food, water, and electricity. These vital jobs need to be kept going. If you've got a way to literally shut everything down, wait out the infectious nature of the disease, and simply let it die by making no new hosts I'm all ears. So is the rest of the world. As yet nobody has made any argument that they can survive without basic resources for three weeks to make this happen. Putting this into a single sentence, I'll accept the value of my life argument when you can show me a way to shut down and lockdown everyone in their homes for 3 weeks and not have the world end. As nobody has made this argument viable, there's still plenty of people who have to work even if a select group gets the relative safety of self quarantine and isolation. I don't believe anyone arguing the value of life thing has ever truly done the math on what it takes to just live....because if they knew how fragile our world is they'd have already freaked out. Let me make one more bit of history and reality known, so that everyone can understand history. Banana are freaks. This is not a joke, they're more inbred than your average stereotype of a hill billy. That is to say that every banana you eat from a grocer is likely to be genetically identical to one another. What? That sort of inbreeding would create freaks, right? No. It creates an ideal consumable product. It creates less variation, so sales can be consistent. It creates a unique banana flavor that is consistently replicable whether you purchase one in Nova Scotia or Alabama. It's a choice made to have a consistent vegetable. The problem then is that our entire world is susceptible to a single infectious disease functionally wiping out the bananas. There is a distinct future in which a single fungal infection could make buying a banana functionally impossible. I'm lying, right? I couldn't possibly have an example. Oh, but I do. If you buy artificial banana flavor it doesn't actually match that of modern bananas, does it? No, because it was developed with an older strain of bananas that is functionally extinct because this happened already. My point here is that things in the modern world are surprisingly fragile. The pandemic should have taught people this....but it did not. The toilet paper, meat, bread, and other shortages didn't clue people in on the fact that our supply chains aren't designed to create huge excesses. We cannot suddenly make resources appear, and that's because there isn't an infinite labor pool. Any minor blips, like having to shut down a meat packing plant in Iowa, might directly lead to shortages and price hikes for beef in Florida and Washington. People who use the argument that human life is not being valued often don't get that their comfort and lives are only possible because of an army of support from other workers. You seem to be amongst that group...and it's sad. I ask that today you alleviate your ignorance. Pick up a single loaf of bread. Tell me where everything that was necessary to get that single loaf of bread to you. Let me help you, so that it makes sense. You bought it from a store. That requires stockers, receivers, managers, maintenance, and delivery drivers. That store got it from a bakery. The bakery requires mixers, maintenance workers, automation technicians, and resource delivery. The bakery got components from various sources. That's everything from chemicals, to yeast, to hardware, and wheat. Let's just focus on the wheat. The wheat was harvested by a farmer. The farmer used a machine to do it, treated the plants with chemicals, got the seed from some other source, and used water and electricity. Let's ignore the water, electricity, and chemicals. That leaves the machine. Farm equipment is a composite of literally thousands of pieces. Screws, bolts, hoses, tanks, etc... Let me say that I can tell you these components are bought everywhere, from China, to Iowa, to Argentina. That's a single US produced machine, for a US farmer, containing parts from around the world. I'm not going to get into the supply chain, but it's basically the same. Now....explain to me how you continue to eat if any of these steps break. Maybe the chemical plant which produces the plastic for the tank shuts down for a week, because they've got issues with employees deciding it's too risky. Fine. Then the machines cannot have plastic parts for a week...but that's a supply chain. The machine manufacturer loses a week of parts, which becomes a two week issue for the farmer. The farmer cannot get a machine, so they lose a percentage of their crops due to inefficiency. That means there's simply less grain available. This puts the bakery out, because less grain means higher prices and less possible production. This leads to shortages and price hikes on a loaf of bread, which creates a panic buy. The panic buy means none of the bread is available, as people rush out to secure it. For weeks you have continued panic, and it's all because of a single link in the supply chain breaking down. This is a scary topic. Anyone in manufacturing or resources should already know that....but it seems like a lot of people don't. Maybe instead of telling others that they don't value life, and trying to make them feel bad, you can understand how very little backup there is to our economy. How very easy it would be to simply destroy our civilization. Under those auspices, it's pretty backwards to fear something like the Corona Virus, in a way that destroys our world. Maybe that escapes people who have never really wanted for anything. I say that not as a judgement of you, but of our society. We as a country of people with abundance have never really known difficulty, and thus often don't know to value the things which allow it to exist. I don't value money above life, I value continuing to live above throwing away the western world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_of_destiny Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Larena said: It sure #*!%ing should have lol. Any company that didnt change their practices due to coronavirus or dragged their feet is putting profit over the lives of their workers and deserves to burn to the ground. Let me point to my other response for a lot more detail. I'll provide you the short version. Food, water, electricity, etc.. These things are not something you can turn off for a month while in lockdown, so somebody has to work. Everybody using your argument always seems to focus on retail and service industry jobs. These jobs reasonably can be paused, assuming there's a net to protect people financially. I work in manufacturing. There's no less need to make screws, bolts, siding, or food today than ten months ago. There's a difference between DE and other companies. Live without food for a month, and tell me how that works out. Live without warframe for two years, and tell me how that works out. I can tell you the results of both. In case one you die. In case two you're happier for taking a break, come back to the game, and over the course of a few months enjoy it until you see the same problems as before. You see RNG being used as a reward limiter, and artificial timers used to extend content. You see terrible releases that are content light, and take literal years in some cases to patch. You then have to decide whether to continue playing or not... Based upon DE's financials, there are a lot of people who decided to not. This is not my opinion, as DE is part of a company required to release financial performance we know 2019 was a bad year. We know 2020 to date is not better. This is not about a pandemic, as 2019 didn't have one. As such, blaming the pandemic is nuts. My original point is that DE is continuing bad practices from 2018, and it's hurting the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said: Putting this into a single sentence, I'll accept the value of my life argument when you can show me a way to shut down and lockdown everyone in their homes for 3 weeks and not have the world end. As nobody has made this argument viable, there's still plenty of people who have to work even if a select group gets the relative safety of self quarantine and isolation. I don't believe anyone arguing the value of life thing has ever truly done the math on what it takes to just live....because if they knew how fragile our world is they'd have already freaked out. Alrighty, let me try this. I'm going to focus on the US here, as a microcosm since that's the place that would really need it, having the most and whatnot. We can't have a completely 100% lockdown, of course. That is impossible. So let's assume the US matches the lockdown procedures of New Zealand, since after all that's one of the countries that fared best. The list of 'essential' services for NZ I've found can be found here: https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/24-03-2020/what-are-essential-services-in-covid-19-lockdown-new-zealand/ Still a lot, to be sure, but remember that NZ is the country that made that 3-week estimate a possibility in the first place. But in reality they had a seven week lockdown when it was actually put into effect, so let's say two months (nine weeks) for the US - that's New Zealand's lockdown plus a margin given that the US has a larger, less co-operative population. Two months without any work for up to 331 million people (not counting the number who are still in essential services or can work from home), and we need to make sure they have a good standard of living for that time. Calculating the amount of money they would need to live a comfortable, non-impoverished life means considering the living wage for two months, and then scaling it up to the true number. Assuming a 40 hour work week, the living wage (the amount of money you need to be able to maintain a normal standard of living) is calculated to be $16 per hour (assuming a 9-5 job and 40 hour work week). The average US work week is 40 hours, so that comes to $640 per week. 640 X 9 = $5,760 total per person. And, since it's outside any reasonable capacity to figure out exactly what percent of the population would need this, let's assume the absolute worst and say everyone in the US needs this (which as you've said, is impossible). So, multiply that total by the population of the US (331 million) and we come out to: $1,906,560,000,000. Or in words, just under two trillion dollars to provide a living wage to the entire population of the United States of America for two months. Now, let's not kid - that's a hell of a lot of money. But do you wanna know something else? Paying it could be done by just 400 people. And most of them would still be billionares after the fact (and the rest mere multi-millionares - what a shame!). Because those 400 people collectively own around $3,500,000,000,000, or 3.5 trillion dollars (so there'd still be a one and a half trillion dollars divided over 400 people - so 3.7 billion if they shared it all equally between them). And there's more people that could also shoulder the weight of this payment, for practicality's sake (liquidating that much of the 400's stocks in one big windfall is a tremendously bad idea, although some sources suggest it becomes far more possible over a longer period of time, but I'm straying off-topic myself here) - I assume you've heard of the concept of the 1%. For reference, 400 is the 0.0001% of the United States - that doesn't even fill up a 747 aeroplane! And this isn't changing the systems that made these people billionares in the first place, so they would make it back, given time. It's a one-time flat payment, not a sudden addition to taxes. And of course all of this is assuming that the entire population is completely unable to work during this time, which as you've already pointed out, isn't the case. A lot of people could still work from home, and a not insubstantial portion of the population would still need to work to keep the country running. So in reality, that two trillion would be much lower. This goes double if you want to get scummy and start giving people the average minimum wage, rather than the living wage, which would also cut costs quite substantially. So there we have it. The maths about how there's absolutely enough money to lock people down for a lot longer than three weeks and not have the world end - even for the people who would bear the hypothetical financial brunt of it. I checked my maths a couple times over, so I'm reasonably confident. Nearly made an embarrassing mistake or two. But I think that pretty much does what you requested - estimate the cost of what it takes to just live, and propose at the very least the nuggets of an idea of how to address the problem, indeed under far stricter conditions than what you yourself suggested! I'm certainly not qualified to propose a way to get these 400 people to actually sacrifice a substantial (if unnecessary) portion of their wealth help others, of course, so in practice this solution is untenable. But that's my core point isn't it? That those in charge don't care about the lives of you and I. As you said, you'd concede this when presented with the maths, so I believe this concludes our debate. Even if you wish to debate further, I think this whole thing has gone on long enough, don't you? I will not be responding to further comments from you - or at the very least, not in respect to this debate. @(XB1)EternalDrk Mako, I'm sorry for the derailing of your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_of_destiny Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Loza03 said: Alrighty, let me try this. I'm going to focus on the US here, as a microcosm since that's the place that would really need it, having the most and whatnot. We can't have a completely 100% lockdown, of course. That is impossible. So let's assume the US matches the lockdown procedures of New Zealand, since after all that's one of the countries that fared best. The list of 'essential' services for NZ I've found can be found here: https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/24-03-2020/what-are-essential-services-in-covid-19-lockdown-new-zealand/ Still a lot, to be sure, but remember that NZ is the country that made that 3-week estimate a possibility in the first place. But in reality they had a seven week lockdown when it was actually put into effect, so let's say two months (nine weeks) for the US - that's New Zealand's lockdown plus a margin given that the US has a larger, less co-operative population. Two months without any work for up to 331 million people (not counting the number who are still in essential services or can work from home), and we need to make sure they have a good standard of living for that time. Calculating the amount of money they would need to live a comfortable, non-impoverished life means considering the living wage for two months, and then scaling it up to the true number. Assuming a 40 hour work week, the living wage (the amount of money you need to be able to maintain a normal standard of living) is calculated to be $16 per hour (assuming a 9-5 job and 40 hour work week). The average US work week is 40 hours, so that comes to $640 per week. 640 X 9 = $5,760 total per person. And, since it's outside any reasonable capacity to figure out exactly what percent of the population would need this, let's assume the absolute worst and say everyone in the US needs this (which as you've said, is impossible). So, multiply that total by the population of the US (331 million) and we come out to: $1,906,560,000,000. Or in words, just under two trillion dollars to provide a living wage to the entire population of the United States of America for two months. Now, let's not kid - that's a hell of a lot of money. But do you wanna know something else? Paying it could be done by just 400 people. And most of them would still be billionares after the fact (and the rest mere multi-millionares - what a shame!). Because those 400 people collectively own around $3,500,000,000,000, or 3.5 trillion dollars (so there'd still be a one and a half trillion dollars divided over 400 people - so 3.7 billion if they shared it all equally between them). And there's more people that could also shoulder the weight of this payment, for practicality's sake (liquidating that much of the 400's stocks in one big windfall is a tremendously bad idea, although some sources suggest it becomes far more possible over a longer period of time, but I'm straying off-topic myself here) - I assume you've heard of the concept of the 1%. For reference, 400 is the 0.0001% of the United States - that doesn't even fill up a 747 aeroplane! And this isn't changing the systems that made these people billionares in the first place, so they would make it back, given time. It's a one-time flat payment, not a sudden addition to taxes. And of course all of this is assuming that the entire population is completely unable to work during this time, which as you've already pointed out, isn't the case. A lot of people could still work from home, and a not insubstantial portion of the population would still need to work to keep the country running. So in reality, that two trillion would be much lower. This goes double if you want to get scummy and start giving people the average minimum wage, rather than the living wage, which would also cut costs quite substantially. So there we have it. The maths about how there's absolutely enough money to lock people down for a lot longer than three weeks and not have the world end - even for the people who would bear the hypothetical financial brunt of it. I checked my maths a couple times over, so I'm reasonably confident. Nearly made an embarrassing mistake or two. But I think that pretty much does what you requested - estimate the cost of what it takes to just live, and propose at the very least the nuggets of an idea of how to address the problem, indeed under far stricter conditions than what you yourself suggested! I'm certainly not qualified to propose a way to get these 400 people to actually sacrifice a substantial (if unnecessary) portion of their wealth help others, of course, so in practice this solution is untenable. But that's my core point isn't it? That those in charge don't care about the lives of you and I. As you said, you'd concede this when presented with the maths, so I believe this concludes our debate. Even if you wish to debate further, I think this whole thing has gone on long enough, don't you? I will not be responding to further comments from you - or at the very least, not in respect to this debate. @(XB1)EternalDrk Mako, I'm sorry for the derailing of your thread. Are you just dense...or socialist? I'm asking because you're still missing out on a lot of the finer points. New Zealand isn't the US. It's a single country the size of a state. We have 50 of them....and territories. Each is structured such that they have their own laws. You'll note that in the US John Deere as a company was designated a vital business, because they make agricultural products. They also make lawn mowers for golf courses. Yes, the people making lawn mowers and their supply chains are a critical business. Now, the stupidity of the math. I'm going to just give you the dollar value. It's immaterial to make that argument, because it's a fundamentally flawed argument. It's fundamentally flawed because you're asking for billionaires to pay for the entire world to stop....because. So we are clear, this is a socialist ideal that the most gifted people should be responsible for everyone... I don't believe you get it, and again refer back to the statement that you have obviously never lived without. My final point here, because this is really stupid, is that DE is what we are talking about. They don't manufacture anything. They're a software company. If they needed to they could theoretically check computers out to the people doing the coding, and have them work from home. It's literally how some players in the industry worked before the pandemic, how they continue to work, and more importantly how they will continue to work. The common complaint here is that DE had to pivot and not have as much direct interaction because they couldn't be in the same office, which is a point. The problem is that first it's cited that people could be depressed, then it's cited that they couldn't do motion capture for cut scenes, so they had to change where the bulk of resources were assigned. I'm told to feel bad, because I don't value life enough because other people adapted unlike DE's management team (not the coders, those deciding upon the release schedule, scope, and content). Then we discuss the economics of vital industries, because people think that somehow lockdowns will solve the problems. How is California doing? China? Italy? Oh....yeah. https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-faces-new-restrictions-as-covid-19-cases-rise.html It's almost like the aggressive lockdowns aren't actually solving it, and our current response world wide is simply to try and mitigate until a cure or vaccine can be tested and approved. Now, the response I gave is that DE is not a critical business, they are lucky to be able to work from home, and that their management of things is poor. Focusing on the last point, this developer stream provided no dates and we are still being promised new content galore in 2020 despite having two months left. That's pretty stupid...almost like having to have a wiki page for promised content that is more than 4 years past the promise date. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Upcoming_Features Note the date of August 5th 2016 on item 17 in the notes....and current date being October 13th 2020. I'm tired of the blaming of everything on Covid. 2020 was a disappointment because DE had to pivot, despite other gaming companies seeing record revenue as the industry became larger in response to lockdowns. Fine, explain 2019 and 2018. 2018 saw a decrease in players on PC as an average. 2019 saw a revenue issue with more decline. 2017 was the year of PoE, and prior to that the game saw a slow upward trend almost continuously. Covid isn't the answer here, it's poor planning. It's poor execution. It's years of promises going unfulfilled, and more promises added every single time DE talks on a stream. It's exactly the same issue as No Man's Sky, drug out over years. The last year is simply the tipping point where the community in general stopped ignoring it. That may have some direct components due to Covid, but it's not a causal link. The causal link is consistent promises, consistent under delivery, and even more consistent issues. Corona virus didn't make this happen. Let's have some fun. Tell me that we're going to have 4 new frames by the end of the year, because DE promised that after tennocon. I'm seeing Lavos...and if it comes in the Deimos content patch it'll be maybe an end of October. November, and half of December remain. Do you think DE can get the fourth frame prototyped, designed, and find a story to include it? Will it be another frame slid into the tenno lab in the dojo? Hey, perhaps it'll just be pushed back a little farther and nobody will comment that it's another ambitious promise made that DE utterly failed to keep. Still looking for full reworks of melee to 3.0. Pets 2.0 has been on the docket for years. When will we finally get that Zephyr Deluxe? It only took like four years for DE to finally release the Hydroid Prime trailer despite "only needing voiceover" for just the longest time. Yeah...I could keep going. What my simple request is, is a muzzle. Developer streams demonstrate content that will be in the next content patch, and not stuff in the pre-alpha phase. Alternatively we get jokes about underpants, and saying they're a priority over delivering the ghoul saw promised years ago....Kinda seems insulting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said: Are you just dense...or socialist? I'm asking because you're still missing out on a lot of the finer points. New Zealand isn't the US. It's a single country the size of a state. We have 50 of them....and territories. Each is structured such that they have their own laws. You'll note that in the US John Deere as a company was designated a vital business, because they make agricultural products. They also make lawn mowers for golf courses. Yes, the people making lawn mowers and their supply chains are a critical business. Now, the stupidity of the math. I'm going to just give you the dollar value. It's immaterial to make that argument, because it's a fundamentally flawed argument. It's fundamentally flawed because you're asking for billionaires to pay for the entire world to stop....because. So we are clear, this is a socialist ideal that the most gifted people should be responsible for everyone... I don't believe you get it, and again refer back to the statement that you have obviously never lived without. My final point here, because this is really stupid, is that DE is what we are talking about. They don't manufacture anything. They're a software company. If they needed to they could theoretically check computers out to the people doing the coding, and have them work from home. It's literally how some players in the industry worked before the pandemic, how they continue to work, and more importantly how they will continue to work. The common complaint here is that DE had to pivot and not have as much direct interaction because they couldn't be in the same office, which is a point. The problem is that first it's cited that people could be depressed, then it's cited that they couldn't do motion capture for cut scenes, so they had to change where the bulk of resources were assigned. I'm told to feel bad, because I don't value life enough because other people adapted unlike DE's management team (not the coders, those deciding upon the release schedule, scope, and content). Then we discuss the economics of vital industries, because people think that somehow lockdowns will solve the problems. How is California doing? China? Italy? Oh....yeah. https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-faces-new-restrictions-as-covid-19-cases-rise.html It's almost like the aggressive lockdowns aren't actually solving it, and our current response world wide is simply to try and mitigate until a cure or vaccine can be tested and approved. Now, the response I gave is that DE is not a critical business, they are lucky to be able to work from home, and that their management of things is poor. Focusing on the last point, this developer stream provided no dates and we are still being promised new content galore in 2020 despite having two months left. That's pretty stupid...almost like having to have a wiki page for promised content that is more than 4 years past the promise date. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Upcoming_Features Note the date of August 5th 2016 on item 17 in the notes....and current date being October 13th 2020. I'm tired of the blaming of everything on Covid. 2020 was a disappointment because DE had to pivot, despite other gaming companies seeing record revenue as the industry became larger in response to lockdowns. Fine, explain 2019 and 2018. 2018 saw a decrease in players on PC as an average. 2019 saw a revenue issue with more decline. 2017 was the year of PoE, and prior to that the game saw a slow upward trend almost continuously. Covid isn't the answer here, it's poor planning. It's poor execution. It's years of promises going unfulfilled, and more promises added every single time DE talks on a stream. It's exactly the same issue as No Man's Sky, drug out over years. The last year is simply the tipping point where the community in general stopped ignoring it. That may have some direct components due to Covid, but it's not a causal link. The causal link is consistent promises, consistent under delivery, and even more consistent issues. Corona virus didn't make this happen. Let's have some fun. Tell me that we're going to have 4 new frames by the end of the year, because DE promised that after tennocon. I'm seeing Lavos...and if it comes in the Deimos content patch it'll be maybe an end of October. November, and half of December remain. Do you think DE can get the fourth frame prototyped, designed, and find a story to include it? Will it be another frame slid into the tenno lab in the dojo? Hey, perhaps it'll just be pushed back a little farther and nobody will comment that it's another ambitious promise made that DE utterly failed to keep. Still looking for full reworks of melee to 3.0. Pets 2.0 has been on the docket for years. When will we finally get that Zephyr Deluxe? It only took like four years for DE to finally release the Hydroid Prime trailer despite "only needing voiceover" for just the longest time. Yeah...I could keep going. What my simple request is, is a muzzle. Developer streams demonstrate content that will be in the next content patch, and not stuff in the pre-alpha phase. Alternatively we get jokes about underpants, and saying they're a priority over delivering the ghoul saw promised years ago....Kinda seems insulting to me. 2 hours ago, Loza03 said: Even if you wish to debate further, I think this whole thing has gone on long enough, don't you? I will not be responding to further comments from you - or at the very least, not in respect to this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 What the fu- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Aldain said: What the fu- Yeah, sorry. No idea how I let it get this bad TBH. I should have cut the troll off way sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 On 2020-10-13 at 5:54 PM, Loza03 said: Yeah, sorry. No idea how I let it get this bad TBH. I should have cut the troll off way sooner. just do a summonig circle and call a mod, best not to feed trolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digressive Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Since this thread has derailed well away from discussion about the game, I am going to lock it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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