What do you predict to be the new Status Meta after changes?

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

corrosive has bonus damage against infested heavy units, viral does not. so theres nothing that i said cant be supported. 

and viral needs status procs to get that effectiveness. not every weapon is a status weapon. corrosive does not need that to get its innate damage buff.

imma say it one more time for you as well.

infested heavies take significant bonus damage from corrosive and does not need a status proc to do so. it has nothing to do with its status proc. so if it doesnt make sense to you, maybe its you who does not understand how damage works. so try to keep your ad hominems to a minimum yeah?

Viral is superior to Corrosive (against everything including the Alloy armored Bombards at Sortie level and below) except when facing the Ferrite armored Heavies (Heavy Gunners) or enemies immune to the Viral status (which is DE cheating). Corrosive is very niche in that respect and it is a niche it loses to Viral if your weapon can support Slash procs via Hunter Munitions, stances or status.

Corrosive isn't more versatile, it's a compromise if you don't go Slash meta. 

Even when Viral is paired with Puncture, it only takes 2 extra bullets over Corrosive to take out one of the level 120 Heavy Gunners below. 8:00. (Akbolto Prime only has 14% base status)

 

Corrosive is something you reserve for slow firing weapons like Sniper Rifles or Impact weapons. Everything else works better with Viral.

 

 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

I don't mod my melee weapons for viral, I prefer either corrosive or, if only space for one element I'll choose toxin.

Why?

It takes to long to build up 10 stacks of viral with my melee.  So I use a different weapon, typically nukor, to rapidly hose the enemies and give 10 viral stacks + radiation + heat.  Then my melee adds ips + either toxin or corrosive.  That way I get the most status effects possible for condition overload and the damage buff from corrosive when I'm smacking them around.   Toxin is good as it bypasses armour/shields.

Of course all this only matters when facing enemies of at least lvl 100.  Below that just mod whatever you want and you'll be fine.

And note, my nukor has heat damage.  I can't be arsed farming another one in order to get a magnetic version which I know is technically better for priming enemies.  I do just fine though and regularly do 2hr+ solo steel path survivals. 

Also, if you don't have a nukor, try using the amprex to prime enemies.  Sounds weird I know, but it works really well, just mod for elements, sc, and fire rate, same as you would with the nukor.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2020-10-10 at 8:01 AM, JazaJ said:

Ahh yes. The "unintended design" excuse will be abundant. Seriously, stop nerfing things that people have put something more valuable than money into, which is their time, and start buffing things that are underpreforming.

DE's terrible habbit of nerfing popular and meta things needs to stop. They clearly don't know how to shape the meta, it's been clear in the past that they don't. But as usual, nothing will change, the knee-jerk nerfs will come and be explained away as "unintended".

This game is wasting away.

While a bit scathing, the spirit of your post is on point.

Often DE balances a few minor things, changes a few other minor things, knocks back the newest solid performers that everyone is having fun with...this gives players a reason to have to investigate and retest builds and gameplay to keep them active.

I want classic combat game modes to be improved.  I want enemy AI improved.  I want Environmental movement and interaction improved.

I want DE to stop introducing grind-alt-modes that aren’t in the spirit of Ninja Combat that detract from the Brand.

I want open worlds to enhance the feeling of “being in the fight” instead of weighing us down with nuts-and-bolts mechanics that frustrate to the point that I don’t want to play the newest content. 

But that’s just me.  And this newest “pass” will likely address none of this.

I don’t care about fluctuating damage calculations for powers, damage types or status/crit as pertains to level 165 Heavy Gunners in Sim.  

This^ is just a Merry-go-Round that gets a facelift every so often.

Love DE and Classic Warframe Combat, but it is what it is.

 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

37 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Toxin is good as it bypasses armour/shields.

Only bypasses shields. No armor ignore anymore

[Zeclem]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Corrosive gives a 75% damage bonus against fossilised health units only.

One proc of viral offers 100% bonus across the entire non-Cambion faction. a full ten gives 375% bonus.

and fossilised units make up the heavy hitters of infested.

im gonna repeat it for the last time, not every weapon is reliable at proccing status effects.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Buddy, there is a reason you have 3 people in the thread arguing against you and literally no one on your side. Stop being stubborn and take this as a learning opportunity. 

thats a fallacy. being in the majority does not make you right in anything. damn, you are really going for the hatrick of ignorance. good luck with that.

3 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Viral is superior to Corrosive (against everything including the Alloy armored Bombards at Sortie level and below) except when facing the Ferrite armored Heavies (Heavy Gunners) or enemies immune to the Viral status (which is DE cheating). Corrosive is very niche in that respect and it is a niche it loses to Viral if your weapon can support Slash procs via Hunter Munitions, stances or status.

so any weapon that cant rely on status is a niche weapon? thats quite a large niche you got there.

3 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Even when Viral is paired with Puncture, it only takes 2 extra bullets over Corrosive to take out one of the level 120 Heavy Gunners below. 8:00. (Akbolto Prime only has 14% base status)

most things in this game die to a couple hits. if this the argument, even crappy elements like gas is perfectly fine.

3 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Corrosive is something you reserve for slow firing weapons like Sniper Rifles or Impact weapons. Everything else works better with Viral.

corrosive is something you use if you cant make use of status or slash procs, while still working considerably well even with those. thats why its more versatile than viral. 

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

and fossilised units make up the heavy hitters of infested.

im gonna repeat it for the last time, not every weapon is reliable at proccing status effects.

Nevertheless, if viral isn't the best for any given enemy, it's usually in the top 5. Probably around two or maybe three. Since this is consistent across all three factions, that makes it the best single damage type, no?

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

31 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

and fossilised units make up the heavy hitters of infested.

im gonna repeat it for the last time, not every weapon is reliable at proccing status effects.

thats a fallacy. being in the majority does not make you right in anything. damn, you are really going for the hatrick of ignorance. good luck with that.

so any weapon that cant rely on status is a niche weapon? thats quite a large niche you got there.

most things in this game die to a couple hits. if this the argument, even crappy elements like gas is perfectly fine.

corrosive is something you use if you cant make use of status or slash procs, while still working considerably well even with those. thats why its more versatile than viral. 

Even without Slash, pure Viral alone is better than Corrosive against all other enemies except the Ferrite armored heavies. Slash allows Viral to kill everything except the status immune.

Even without accounting for Viral's superior proc (Top loads damage output), Corrosive is just neutral against Alloy while Viral still has that bonus against Cloned Flesh.

If you watched Leyzar's video for the Akbolto Prime, the Viral build kills the 120 Heavy Gunner in 5 seconds as opposed to the 4 seconds of the Corrosive build. 1 Second faster kill time on a Heavy Gunner is not a good trade off for killing everything else slower.

Weapons that can't reliably rely on status aren't meta outside of Boss Fights (Corrosive or Radiation depending on the armor). 

Hybrid weapons dominate. Status weapons are good primers. Pure Crit weapons fall off hard.

 

[Zeclem]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Nevertheless, if viral isn't the best for any given enemy, it's usually in the top 5. Probably around two or maybe three. Since this is consistent across all three factions, that makes it the best single damage type, no?

we dont really have that many damage types. you p much all either go corrosive/heat or viral/heat. 

2 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Even without Slash, pure Viral alone is better than Corrosive against all other enemies except the Ferrite armored heavies. Slash allows Viral to kill everything except the status immune.

and against fossilized, which makes up the heavies of infested. alongside the ones with ferrite armor, these make quite a bunch.

2 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Even without accounting for Viral's superior proc (Top loads damage output), Corrosive is just neutral against Alloy while Viral still has that bonus against Cloned Flesh.

If you watched Leyzar's video for the Akbolto Prime, the Viral build kills the 120 Heavy Gunner in 5 seconds as opposed to the 4 seconds of the Corrosive build. 1 Second faster kill time on a Heavy Gunner is not a good trade off for killing everything else slower.

i mean its not like with corrosive/heat you will kill things that much slower. 

2 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Weapons that can't reliably rely on status aren't meta outside of Boss Fights (Corrosive or Radiation depending on the armor). 

Hybrid weapons dominate. Status weapons are good primers. Pure Crit weapons fall off hard.

pure crit does not fall off hard though. i use such weaponry in steel path and they dont have much problems getting me to the 1 hour mark. are hybrid builds better? absolutely. but those are far from the only viable option. 

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

we dont really have that many damage types. you p much all either go corrosive/heat or viral/heat. 

Isn't that, like... the entire point of this thread?

Hoping we get more variety in useful damage types? Which is why we criticize the one that's unabashedly superior than any of the others by virtue of being a great pick wherever (sometimes even the best), whilst some are at best decent against their most favored factions.

[Zeclem]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Isn't that, like... the entire point of this thread?

Hoping we get more variety in useful damage types? Which is why we criticize the one that's unabashedly superior than any of the others by virtue of being a great pick wherever (sometimes even the best), whilst some are at best decent against their most favored factions.

yes. ive never said that the status is balanced enough anyway. my point was we had corrosive/heat combo for so long and finally viral is another thing worthy of using. we need the weaker ones to be buffed to relevance, not nerfing the actually good ones to their level.

[DrivaMain]

4 hours ago, Zeclem said:

most things in this game die to a couple hits. if this the argument, even crappy elements like gas is perfectly fine.

No enemies don’t die in 2 hits with a gas build. My Gas Pathocyst at least took 10 button presses to kill sortie 3 grunts. Gas is Terrible. No amount of arguing can deny that. Let me show you why it is bad.

1. Grineer resist it heavily and they are heavily armor
2. Corpus enemies also resist it.
3. The DoT do not take elemental mods into account. Gimping it’s damage significantly.
4. The amount of status you have is capped at 10. Newer proc stack after that replaces the oldest stack applied. So say your first proc stack deals 5000 damage per second, but you applied the 11th status that deals 500 damage per second. That new proc deletes the 5000 DPS proc.

If you want an AoE status build it’s better you mod your weapons for viral and electric instead. Electric is more versatile, DO take elemental mods in the DoT calculation and, it has no cap. Viral amplify the status effect.

 

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

 

i mean its not like with corrosive/heat you will kill things that much slower. 

 

i mean its not like with Viral/heat you will kill heavy gunners that much slower.

On my Supra Vandal, Viral/Heat only kills slightly slower than Corrosive/Heat against Heavy Gunners (as the Supra's innate Puncture's +50% against Ferrite also works like Corrosive's bonus and gets to piggy back off of Viral's faster acting proc), but Corpus Techs with Proto Shields (-50% for Corrosive while neutral to Viral, that's super effective once shields are stripped while Corrosive becomes neutral) will feel quite tanky against Corrosive/Heat. 

Taking the 6000 Ferrite armor Heavy Gunner example again:

On 10th Viral Proc, Viral has a 7.4x multiplier.

On 10th Corrosive Proc, Corrosive has a 17.5x multiplier.

17.5/7.4=2.4

In this case, Corrosive deals +140% more damage than Viral.

Of course, damage types don't exist in a vacuum. Forgetting Slash, even having Puncture on your weapon closes the gap between Viral and Corrosive against Heavy Gunners.

Puncture innately ignores 50% of Ferrite with a 50% bonus. 3000 armor is 91% Damage Reduction.

Compared to neutral that has to eat through 95% DR, 5% going through to 9% going through with a 1.5x.....(9/5)*1.5= 2.7xmultiplier

1st Corrosive proc, 4440 armor, Puncture treats this as 2220 armor, 88% DR.....(12/5*1.5)=3.6x multiplier

10th Corrosive proc, 1200 armor, Puncture treats as 600 armor, 67% DR.....(33/5*1.5)=9.9x multiplier

1st Proc Viral, 2.7*2=5.4x multiplier for Puncture

10th Proc Viral, 2.7*4.25= 11.5x multiplier for Puncture

On a Supra Vandal that's 75% Puncture and +120% Combined Elemental at 10 procs

Corrosive: 0.75*9.9+1.2*17.5=28.4

Viral: 0.75*11.5+*1.2*7.4= 17.5

28.4/17.5=1.6

In this case, Corrosive build only deals +60% more damage over the Viral build, while Viral itself already deals more damage against literally everything else.

At no procs against Bombard, Viral deals 1.75xCorrosive as Corrosive is neutral against Alloy while Viral has a +75% bonus against Cloned Flesh.

At no procs, Raw Viral deals +75% more damage than Raw Corrosive against Bombard.

Corrosive is only neutral against Alloy, so at 10 stacks it only has a 4x multiplier against a Bombard while, Viral has 7.4x multiplier. 7.4/4=1.85

Raw Viral deals +85% more damage over Raw Corrosive at 10 procs against Bombard.

Viral is neutral against Fossilized and surpasses Corrosive against Fossilized in a single proc.  2/1.75=1.14x, 4.25/1.75=2.4x

Raw Viral deals +14% more damage than Corrosive against Fossilized at 1 proc, +140% more damage at 10 procs.

Viral is neutral against Proto Shields, while Corrosive is -50%

Viral has +50% against Flesh, Corrosive is neutral

Corpus Tech with Shields up, Viral is 2xCorrosive.

Corpus Tech with Shields down, Viral is 1.5xCorrosive at no procs and 6.4xCorrosive at 10 procs.

At worse, Viral deals +100% more damage than Corrosive against Corpus Tech.

Corrosive is reserved for slow firing weapons that can't stack status like snipers and impact weapons. Viral will generally perform better on everything else.

Of course, you can combo your weapons with a Kuva Nukor that primes with Viral and hit them with a Corrosive melee. 

Corrosive+Viral is godly. Tysis doesn't even need crit or slash to take out Heavy Gunners. Synapse is single target delete.

 

 

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

On 2020-10-10 at 6:28 AM, kwlingo said:

Well seems like status will be getting another tweak. Im assuming DE wants to kill the "Viral" Meta.

What do you think will be the next Meta?

Im thinking Gas????

I would wouldn’t  about it just yet. Saryn was “supposed” to be “looked at” a year ago... nothings changed. However I would keep in mind for a long time. There’s a reason the only element type I accept on my Rivens is Toxin (aside from snipers). They nerf Viral I’ll rock Corrosive and Heat. Ppl will ALWAYS find the strongest and run with it.

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, Zeclem said:

corrosive has bonus damage against infested heavy units, viral does not. so theres nothing that i said cant be supported. 

and viral needs status procs to get that effectiveness. not every weapon is a status weapon. corrosive does not need that to get its innate damage buff.

and there's some Enemies which do not have Armor nor a Health Type weak to Corrosive, while very few Enemies are immune to Status, and all Enemies have Health.

what's complicated about this.

 

it's not like anybody is saying Corrosive or Radiation aren't also very effective in some scenarios, but Viral is unquestionably the most flexible of all of those Damage Types, because everything has Health.

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

we dont really have that many damage types. you p much all either go corrosive/heat or viral/heat. 

there's definitely more very effective choices than that.

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

we need the weaker ones to be buffed to relevance, not nerfing the actually good ones to their level.

the results of Magnetic and Viral are probably unwarranted, 4.25x makes up for the raw Damage that you lose to get the extra Status Chance, making that a no brainer choice, plus essentially adds Crits to your Elemental Damage, built in.
we shouldn't be going the way of Monster Hunter here, and making Critical Element an absolute must on any good Weapon choice.

[(PSN)drollive96]

On 2020-10-10 at 8:22 AM, vegetosayajin said:

impact status = new meta 

Void status meta, nobody would use their Warframes and they would nerf operators of all things

[ghoti0315]

They will nerf everything useful and then blast will be the best one

[Hokibukisa]

I'm gonna be honest with you, throughout all of the nerfs and buffs over the past 2 years it really hasn't changed my playstyles much and everything that worked before still works now.

The metaslaves will have an aneurysm while looking at their calculators and spreadsheets but in reality it'll probably be nothing to even worry about.

Gaz complains about literally everything, nothing to see here.

[0_The_F00l]

i dont expect it to change significantly,

But i am hopeful that status effects will have a rock ,paper, scissor , lizard, spoc thing going so there is no single best item against all factions , resistance and health types.

 

Currently i can use the least effective status effect and still manage the star chart without noticing a major difference.

its on sortie level and higher that i need to be conscious on what i am taking for the procs - at least effective if not meta needs to be considered.

and at SP i need to be absolutely sure on a loadout and faction to be even remotely effective.

 

I expect viral to get a nerf if nothing else - which is fine if it is reasonable , but knowing DE they will probably nerf it in the ground.

[ShortCat]

If the number of elements in not drastically reduced, I cannot imagine any substantial chagnes.

[binioslaw]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

While a bit scathing, the spirit of your post is on point.

Often DE balances a few minor things, changes a few other minor things, knocks back the newest solid performers that everyone is having fun with...this gives players a reason to have to investigate and retest builds and gameplay to keep them active.

I want classic combat game modes to be improved.  I want enemy AI improved.  I want Environmental movement and interaction improved.

I want DE to stop introducing grind-alt-modes that aren’t in the spirit of Ninja Combat that detract from the Brand.

I want open worlds to enhance the feeling of “being in the fight” instead of weighing us down with nuts-and-bolts mechanics that frustrate to the point that I don’t want to play the newest content. 

But that’s just me.  And this newest “pass” will likely address none of this.

I don’t care about fluctuating damage calculations for powers, damage types or status/crit as pertains to level 165 Heavy Gunners in Sim.  

This^ is just a Merry-go-Round that gets a facelift every so often.

Love DE and Classic Warframe Combat, but it is what it is.

 

What that guy have said one thousand times over.

I feel that all changes and new things follow pattern: 1 step forward 2 steps back. The core gameplay(warframes/weapons/parkour) is so much fun and I would like DE to try to enhance it and not try to divert too much from it(railjack) or concentrate too much on basic grindy mmo activities(fishing/mining) that has nothing to do with space ninja badassery.

I still wait for open world fissures. Especialy survival/defence/excavation madness with increased spawns. Imagine open world where you are swarmed by hundreads of enemies.

I once had a bug in fortuna-while doing solo bountie, 80-120 level enemies started spawning like crazy.I'm talking about +50 enemies falling down from the sky every couple of seconds. After a while I got my ass kicked, but it was the most fun I had ever in this game. Lets embrace the open world madness-have archwing/railjack battles in open world and at the same time being able to crash land on the base and murder in style hundreads of ground units. Or we can continue fishing...

Concerning the topic and status changes: viral is too strong right now. It needs to be brought down to the level of being good against every faction but never being the best option. Or we can change it to old viral which also was working fine with slash. Whatever DE decides with viral they have to also look into gas/blast and maybe impact.Those desperately need help.

Imho old blast was perfect-when you wanted cc you moded specificaly for it and not were irritated by it(impact).

I also would like to make status duration relevant. At this point sd mods are worthless. Maybe make some status effects very strong but also sd dependand? I think gas and cold could be good options for it.

But those are only my 2 cents. Whatever happens happens.

 

[(PSN)m3wheeling]

There are always going to be a few status combinations that will lead the pack and people will gravitate their builds to use these best combinations and there is nothing wrong w that.  I like playing the game and am tired of reoptimizing my builds because of damage changes.  There are so many more pressing items that need fixing DE really needs to get their eye on the ball.

[HolySeraphin]

Viral is king for Grineer because even though they have armor, the game view armor as health, unlike shields. Maybe they will make viral not give the bonus damage unless it is only health. Another option would be to give alloy armor a resistance (-50%) to viral, and add a +25% weakness to corrosive. This would make corrosive standout against grineer, and still keep viral good, but worse than corrosive, because by itself corrosive is only significantly weaker than viral.

[Leyers_of_facade]

just bring back old gas

[Tiltskillet]

DE has to do this often enough that the real solution is blindingly obvious: Status Proc Disposition with quarterly adjustments based on popularity.           

 

 

                                                                                                                

[IamLoco]

My guess is, they will tell us that it was never intended that enemies can be inflicted with more than 1 (maybe 2 or 3) status types and that they "fix" it so players don´t feel forced to run status builds. They will call this a buff for weapons with low status chance.