Ash or Loki?

[-Jemini-]

Wassup tennos, i've been thinking about whether or not is worth the time to buy either ash prime or loki. I heard that many players said that ash prime is a decent warframe whilst loki prime is best because of his stealth. I just want to know whether or not should i buy both of them or either one of these two.

[-Jemini-]

11 hours ago, (PS4)nmt140 said:

I've bought and played both frames (the Prime versions), and honestly, I regret it. Not saying they're terrible frames, but not worth spending platinum on. (Warning: Long Essay Below, scroll down for TL;DR)

A tip on buying these frames:

  Hide contents

I don't know if you're buying the Prime from other players or from the official market, but the cheaper way is to buy from the market for Loki, and to buy from other players for Ash. Loki Prime costs way too much for a Prime frame (240-300 platinum), while it only costs 175 platinum for the normal version on the market. Normal Ash costs 375 in the market, but his Prime costs 150-180 platinum when buying from other players. There isn't much difference between the prime and non prime version of these frames, even less so because they are both Stealth frames, not tank or caster frames where every last energy capacity or health counts.

Now, here's the thing with Loki and Ash. Both of them have so much mystique among players (particularly newbies), because they're advertised as "secret assassin stabby ninja" frames.

In truth, both of them are okay frames, but they are lacking in some aspects. Nowadays, what makes a warframe good is the fact that they can be used for all sorts of content. The most popular frames right now (Nova, Octavia, Wisp, Mesa, Saryn) are popular because their purpose is general enough to fit all kinds of missions(Saryn = Killing), or because they have tools that fit all kinds of mission purposes (Octavia = Invis/Buff/AoE/CC)

Ash

Ash is very good at killing single targets, but he sucks at killing or disabling large groups of enemies.

His 1 is a meh shuriken, but with the augment he can strip armor, making it okay.

His 2 is a short non-refreshable Invisibility ability that can be cast quickly, but doesn't last long enough to be useful enough to avoid damage.

His 3 is a teleport that opens a single enemy to finishers, or instantly finishes an enemy with the augment. His 4 is an ability that marks multiple targets so his shadow clones can finish them.

While it sounds cool on paper, Bladestorm is too slow and finicky to use to clear groups of enemies. His augmented 1 can completely strip armor when modded right, but only for a few targets. His 2 is an okay ability, but it provides only a short amount of invisibility and needs to be intensely modded to actually last long. His 3 is a teleport, and that's it.

Strengths: Single enemies that are unusually strong or have a large amount of armor.

Weaknesses: crowds of enemies

Loki

Loki's 1 is a decoy with unmoddable, unscaling health, so it dies right away on high level missions when placed in a spot that is exposed to enemy fire.

Loki's 2 is also non-refreshable invisibility, but it lasts longer than Ash's, and even with max duration you will have to recast it every 40 seconds or so.

His 3 is a teleport similar to Ash's but it changes places with the target.

His 4 is a radial wave that disarms enemies within a certain range, forcing them to revert to melee weapons. His augmented 4 makes enemies fight each other.

Loki also sounds cool, but in reality decoy is not reliable enough in high level content. Invisibility is good, but it is somewhat of a pain recasting every 40 seconds. His 3 is just a teleport. And his 4 is a decent CC, but there are much better and reliable crowd control abilities out there. Also, he suffers when out of invisibility, because he barely has armor and can be killed from AoE damage even while invisible

Strengths: fast spy Missions, capture missions, missions where completing objectives quickly and without being disturbed is essential.

Weaknesses: long missions, AoE damage

In conclusion, both frames have flaws, and will not let you cheese every sort of mission quickly and efficiently. Loki suffers in long missions where having to constantly recast to stay alive while managing energy is annoying, while Ash suffers in any mission with hordes of enemies (most types of missions). What I mean by suffer is that the frame in question will be able to complete it, but not in the best or most efficient way. 

In the end, the question to ask yourself is, are you willing to play differently but less effectively for fun, or are you the a player that looks for an S or A tier frame that can easily complete multiple types of content?

If you're looking for a frame to "main" or use all the time and expect to complete everything with ease, these frames will not be the best choice for you.

If you're looking to have some fun with a new frame and perhaps try playing differently, then buy one or both of them if you think it's worth the platinum.

If you're looking for a frame that will be only used for a certain purpose, (like Spy or Riven challenges), then buy the one you think will suit your purpose best.

My advice? Buy neither, and save your plat for a frame that you really really want after doing enough research and asking yourself enough questions. They're okay frames, but not top tier Swiss army knives, so I wouldn't buy them using platinum (although I already made that mistake😐). But hey, in the end it's your platinum, so it's your choice.

TL;DR Both frames are okay frames and good at doing specific things, but don't expect them to be able to complete everything in the best or most efficient way. Ash sucks at CC, and Loki sucks at long missions and is very squishy. If you're looking for a frame to "main" or bring to all sorts of missions, don't buy either of these. If you're looking for a frame to only complete specific missions with, buy the one you think is best.

Hope I reached you in time!

Ahh i see now, and here i am thinking loki prime is god tier lol, thanks man 😀

[(PSN)Deadmennwalking]

On 2020-10-10 at 11:24 PM, Warrenty said:

Wassup tennos, i've been thinking about whether or not is worth the time to buy either ash prime or loki. I heard that many players said that ash prime is a decent warframe whilst loki prime is best because of his stealth. I just want to know whether or not should i buy both of them or either one of these two.

Personally I play Loki Prime a lot. Why? Well truth be known I am not a very good player so equipping a frame that can go invisible and thus not get shot at significantly reduces my "player down" time.

Have fun and may RNG be forever in your favor.

[Jemmies]

I'm a Loki player and, thus, lean towards Loki instead of Ash.

If you got enough duration and efficiency mods, coupled with energy siphon, you can always cast and re-cast your Invisibility, While this is less than desirable because of the need to re-cast (compared to Ivara's invisibility that drains energy per second), the upshot is that you don't have to worry about running out of energy plus movement speed is unimpeded (of course you can also use the Infiltrate mod with high enough strength to overcome this movement speed, which brings me to my next point).

Loki's augment mod, Irradiating Disarm, is a very nice crowd control ability. Not only does it disrupt the enemies' range attacks, it also confuses them, causing them to start melee attacking each other. This means that they are nicely clumped together. If you have an AoE weapon, it's delicious. In a squad where there are great dps frames, this can facilitate their dps and keep the squad alive (no one's shooting at us).

The final comment that I have is Loki's Decoy and Teleport. Decoy, on it's own, serves as a sort of enemy detection. I just need to watch where the decoy is shooting, then I shoot in the same direction. Combined, these two are quite fun to play with. If you got good range, you can place a decoy at some far away spot (or hard to access spot), then cast Teleport on the decoy and you would swap place with it. Easy access.

For me, this is a great frame to play solo. Missions that require team effort, like the one where there are four towers and you have to capture the towers, those are kind of difficult to solo. Otherwise, it's great fun.

My two cents.

[(PSN)I_graviton_I]

Ash hands down. All of his abilities are useful (especially if you use his augments which are among the best in the game) and he's just much more fun to play IMO. He has better damage output and survivability than Loki.

Shuriken is great to spam at low levels and really satisfying to use. Seeking Shuriken augment makes it viable at end game with it's armour strip and with this aug it becomes one of the best spammable abilities in the game.

Smoke Screen has shorter duration than Loki Invis but it gets the job done.

Teleport is way better than Loki' switch TP and Fatal TP augment is extremely powerful late game as it can damn near one shot anything outside of bosses when paired with a dagger and covert lethality.

Bladestorm can clear whole rooms and the augment for this is great yet again. Loki ult isn't bad but CC isn't as sought out as it once was. The best enemy is a dead enemy and BS has that covered.

His passive is one of the better passives in the game because slash is one of the best damage types.

Loki is the better stealth frame but I'd honestly rather play someone like Ivara who has much better tools at her disposal. 

Ash is THE ninja warframe and just has the cooler theme and abilities. He's also far superior to Loki when it comes to fashion frame (Koga, Shroud and Carabid > all of Loki's cosmetics).

Ash is better in pretty much every mode besides spy which is one of my least favourite/played modes anyway. I take out Ash with a Dread and Nikana when I just want to chill out and have fun and I can take it anywhere and know I'll be fine on my own. 

[(XBOX)Sir Sponks Alot]

Personally I really like Ash, love making him as people say "a single target killing machine." I build him with his 3 augment and the arcane that turns you invisible with finishers and bam, invisibility at all times with an insta kill for almost any enemy within reason (plus you are invincible while executing so its kind of a good get away in things get hairy). If you really want to buy one of them, I would tell you NOT to buy Loki, not because of his kit or anything but because he is incredibly high priced right now, go ahead and buy ash if you REALLY need to. I would recommend just farming them and waiting for an unvaulting (they should be coming up in the next couple I think?)

[Eystra_Sniper13]

but i think Ash is killer,Loki is sniky boy

[Eystra_Sniper13]

On 2020-10-10 at 7:41 PM, Ymoraa said:

Ash because he is a ninja and looks very good with nikana 

this does not matter,  the real ninja we are looking, no  this players have a better appearance

[Ahniar]

Loky for farm related stuff, Ash for solo play... Get both... More tools make easier jobs. 

[(PSN)Mpeach45]

There's very little effective difference between Loki Prime and Loki. Regular Loki is very easy to farm. So why not, you know, *play the game* and farm Loki, level him up, and see if you like him before making a decision about spending plat?

Ash, on the other hand, is a giant pain in the astrolabe to farm.

Personally, I love both frames and think they are both worth having. But I farmed all of them. Also, Loki Prime will probably be two or three times the price of Ash Prime right now.

[vegetosayajin]

Both are cool.
I use loki p much more because of the longer duration, cc and teleport for some bounties.
Also because of the loki master race meme.
Ash requires much more attention in survivals but has a little more interesting kit.
tl;dr both if/when you can

[Tesseract7777]

12 hours ago, Warrenty said:

Ahh i see now, and here i am thinking loki prime is god tier lol, thanks man 😀

He used to be considered the best of the best, but some frames have sort of dethroned him over the years.

That being said, if you really, really like a theme, you can make any frame in the game work for any content even endless if you use all the tricks the game offers you. 

My suggestion is just pick the theme(s) you like the most, and make them work for you, all frames can manage all content if you want them to. 

Loki is way more indirect, your weapons do your damage, and staying invis is a must for protection, he can provide a certain level of light cc

Ash is short invis but can easily do the majority of damage with abilities, take out single targets quickly, and strip armor from bosses and other tough enemies with the augment, but no cc really. 

I would suggest watching a lot of gameplay videos if you are interested in both before you buy either, to get a feel for who you would really enjoy the play style of more and go with that. 

[-Jemini-]

10 hours ago, Canach said:

I've played a whole lot of Ash and comparativly little Loki, the reason being my own playstyle/preference. This is how I see them:

• Both are great solo frames, and both CAN contribute a lot to teams, and both scale well. Neither are 'meta', but you can take either of them anywhere. Both do stealth and melee very well, but Loki is better for Stealth alone, and Ash is better for Stealth Melee
• Loki has a great kit for stealth, mobility, and combat avoidance. Loki scales well to endgame because his kit is about accomplishing the mission by avoidance. Between the stealth, decoy, switch teleport, and radial disarm, he's one of the most perfectly balanced full set of skills in the game. 
• Ash has perfectly adequate stealth (my build is 12s), is a good bit tougher, and has much more effective combat with this Fatal Teleport and Blade Storm, both of which are extremely strong, but FT is no longer as powerful as it used to be, and Blade Storm can be awkward for some users. Ash is also high geared towards melee attacks - which works well with his stealth. Ash's #1 Shuriken is the only skill I don't use, or rarely use. It is nice, it just doesn't compete with endgame weapons. This is fine, however, as you can Helminth over you want to replace it with.

In terms of purchasing - if you're going to use both equally, purchase the Ash Prime, and farm the regular (or Prime) Loki. I say this because Primes improve combat stats and Ash sees more combat - so more practical benefit from the upgrade. EDIT: If you mean purchase normal build from market place - buy the one that's harder to grind for (Ash is much harder to grind for - dropping from maniacs vs loki dropping from hyenas, which is just repeating assassin missions), or else just get the one you want to try first.

G'Luck either way! 

Thanks for the info appreciate it 😀

[OrionHisSon]

On 2020-10-10 at 8:24 AM, Warrenty said:

Wassup tennos, i've been thinking about whether or not is worth the time to buy either ash prime or loki. I heard that many players said that ash prime is a decent warframe whilst loki prime is best because of his stealth. I just want to know whether or not should i buy both of them or either one of these two.

Ash Prime - https://overframe.gg/items/arsenal/41/ash-prime/

Loki Prime - https://overframe.gg/items/arsenal/32/loki-prime/

[Canach]

I've played a whole lot of Ash and comparativly little Loki, the reason being my own playstyle/preference. This is how I see them:

• Both are great solo frames, and both CAN contribute a lot to teams, and both scale well. Neither are 'meta', but you can take either of them anywhere. Both do stealth and melee very well, but Loki is better for Stealth alone, and Ash is better for Stealth Melee
• Loki has a great kit for stealth, mobility, and combat avoidance. Loki scales well to endgame because his kit is about accomplishing the mission by avoidance. Between the stealth, decoy, switch teleport, and radial disarm, he's one of the most perfectly balanced full set of skills in the game. 
• Ash has perfectly adequate stealth (my build is 12s), is a good bit tougher, and has much more effective combat with this Fatal Teleport and Blade Storm, both of which are extremely strong, but FT is no longer as powerful as it used to be, and Blade Storm can be awkward for some users. Ash is also high geared towards melee attacks - which works well with his stealth. Ash's #1 Shuriken is the only skill I don't use, or rarely use. It is nice, it just doesn't compete with endgame weapons. This is fine, however, as you can Helminth over you want to replace it with.

In terms of purchasing - if you're going to use both equally, purchase the Ash Prime, and farm the regular (or Prime) Loki. I say this because Primes improve combat stats and Ash sees more combat - so more practical benefit from the upgrade. EDIT: If you mean purchase normal build from market place - buy the one that's harder to grind for (Ash is much harder to grind for - dropping from maniacs vs loki dropping from hyenas, which is just repeating assassin missions), or else just get the one you want to try first.

G'Luck either way! 

[v1ld_wf]

I play both these frames quite a lot and enjoy them, but agree entirely with the above post!  Don't buy these, get them through the normal unvault process over time.

Helminth lets you spice up these frames. Blade Storm can be seriously buffed with Savage Silence to where it'll kill SP with no problems, but I wouldn't call it fun as the ability is somewhat tedious with all the changes done to it - fair summary above really. Marked for Death works with Fatal Teleport, that will probably be a better fit as a tactical option in my Invisibility Ash loadout - do disagree on it being hard to maintain invisibility with Ash as it's a one handed cast that doesn't interrupt your current action. Permanently invisible Ash is a fun build and MfD Fatal Teleport should go well as a tactical option in that build - note, not as core gameplay but as a fun option to use along with your weapons.

Haven't gotten around to figuring out what to infuse on Loki yet. Will point out he's quite useful in many arby types since he can walk right up to the drones to kill them or to safely go and activate that faraway life support canister etc.  But it's good utility stuff, not your main damage dealing ninja.

[(PSN)nmt140]

I've bought and played both frames (the Prime versions), and honestly, I regret it. Not saying they're terrible frames, but not worth spending platinum on. (Warning: Long Essay Below, scroll down for TL;DR)

A tip on buying these frames:

Spoiler

I don't know if you're buying the Prime from other players or from the official market, but the cheaper way is to buy from the market for Loki, and to buy from other players for Ash. Loki Prime costs way too much for a Prime frame (240-300 platinum), while it only costs 175 platinum for the normal version on the market. Normal Ash costs 375 in the market, but his Prime costs 150-180 platinum when buying from other players. There isn't much difference between the prime and non prime version of these frames, even less so because they are both Stealth frames, not tank or caster frames where every last energy capacity or health counts.

Now, here's the thing with Loki and Ash. Both of them have so much mystique among players (particularly newbies), because they're advertised as "secret assassin stabby ninja" frames.

In truth, both of them are okay frames, but they are lacking in some aspects. Nowadays, what makes a warframe good is the fact that they can be used for all sorts of content. The most popular frames right now (Nova, Octavia, Wisp, Mesa, Saryn) are popular because their purpose is general enough to fit all kinds of missions(Saryn = Killing), or because they have tools that fit all kinds of mission purposes (Octavia = Invis/Buff/AoE/CC)

Ash

Ash is very good at killing single targets, but he sucks at killing or disabling large groups of enemies.

His 1 is a meh shuriken, but with the augment he can strip armor, making it okay.

His 2 is a short non-refreshable Invisibility ability that can be cast quickly, but doesn't last long enough to be useful enough to avoid damage.

His 3 is a teleport that opens a single enemy to finishers, or instantly finishes an enemy with the augment. His 4 is an ability that marks multiple targets so his shadow clones can finish them.

While it sounds cool on paper, Bladestorm is too slow and finicky to use to clear groups of enemies. His augmented 1 can completely strip armor when modded right, but only for a few targets. His 2 is an okay ability, but it provides only a short amount of invisibility and needs to be intensely modded to actually last long. His 3 is a teleport, and that's it.

Strengths: Single enemies that are unusually strong or have a large amount of armor.

Weaknesses: crowds of enemies

Loki

Loki's 1 is a decoy with unmoddable, unscaling health, so it dies right away on high level missions when placed in a spot that is exposed to enemy fire.

Loki's 2 is also non-refreshable invisibility, but it lasts longer than Ash's, and even with max duration you will have to recast it every 40 seconds or so.

His 3 is a teleport similar to Ash's but it changes places with the target.

His 4 is a radial wave that disarms enemies within a certain range, forcing them to revert to melee weapons. His augmented 4 makes enemies fight each other.

Loki also sounds cool, but in reality decoy is not reliable enough in high level content. Invisibility is good, but it is somewhat of a pain recasting every 40 seconds. His 3 is just a teleport. And his 4 is a decent CC, but there are much better and reliable crowd control abilities out there. Also, he suffers when out of invisibility, because he barely has armor and can be killed from AoE damage even while invisible

Strengths: fast spy Missions, capture missions, missions where completing objectives quickly and without being disturbed is essential.

Weaknesses: long missions, AoE damage

In conclusion, both frames have flaws, and will not let you cheese every sort of mission quickly and efficiently. Loki suffers in long missions where having to constantly recast to stay alive while managing energy is annoying, while Ash suffers in any mission with hordes of enemies (most types of missions). What I mean by suffer is that the frame in question will be able to complete it, but not in the best or most efficient way. 

In the end, the question to ask yourself is, are you willing to play differently but less effectively for fun, or are you the a player that looks for an S or A tier frame that can easily complete multiple types of content?

If you're looking for a frame to "main" or use all the time and expect to complete everything with ease, these frames will not be the best choice for you.

If you're looking to have some fun with a new frame and perhaps try playing differently, then buy one or both of them if you think it's worth the platinum.

If you're looking for a frame that will be only used for a certain purpose, (like Spy or Riven challenges), then buy the one you think will suit your purpose best.

My advice? Buy neither, and save your plat for a frame that you really really want after doing enough research and asking yourself enough questions. They're okay frames, but not top tier Swiss army knives, so I wouldn't buy them using platinum (although I already made that mistake😐). But hey, in the end it's your platinum, so it's your choice.

TL;DR Both frames are okay frames and good at doing specific things, but don't expect them to be able to complete everything in the best or most efficient way. Ash sucks at CC, and Loki sucks at long missions and is very squishy. If you're looking for a frame to "main" or bring to all sorts of missions, don't buy either of these. If you're looking for a frame to only complete specific missions with, buy the one you think is best.

Hope I reached you in time!

[Ymoraa]

Ash because he is a ninja and looks very good with nikana 

[(PSN)Unstar]

Personally, I've never found Loki to be enjoyable to play.  I won't deny that there are situations where Decoy and Switch Teleport can be useful, but in your average mission I find them to be far too niche.  Radial Disarm is good CC, but if I want CC I can play any number of frames with better CC options.  As someone who is invisible, I don't need CC because enemies aren't attacking me, I need ways to kill enemies.

That's why I gravitate towards Ash.  In my opinion, the only downside of Ash compared to Loki is that Loki's invisibility lasts longer. However, ever since DE implemented the change so that enemies won't notice you unless you've been visible for a full second, that hasn't really mattered much.  Ash has so much cool stuff going on, and all of his Augments are worth using to make interesting builds.  Personally, I'm a really big fan of augmenting his invisibility power so that it makes nearby teammates invisible, too.  His offensive abilities use Slash procs to bypass enemy armor and perform finisher attacks, in ways that I find feel both good and fun.  Ash players have lots of options of ways to punish enemies while still being invisible, or buff the team (or debuff enemy armor).

For me, it's no contest.  But if what you really want for some reason is to be both invisible and use crowd control, then Loki can be that frame for you.

[AlphaPHENIX]

You don't have to buy both of them...but having both is good.

I personally don't find myself playing Loki a lot, just because he is a ''no funny buisness'' frame and I want at least some ''funny buisness''. It's reliable, but it bores me.
PS: Yes, you can mess around with Switch Teleport; just expect to be treated like a Limbo. Your team mates won't care if you are using the augment and making them invurnable, they won't care if you do it point blank to avoid messing them up, they won't care if you just saved them, they will just call you names and yell...it's a thankless job.

Ash is cool. There are simpler ways in which Bladestorm could have been fixed, without nerfing it. Everyone can have Seeking Shuriken now. Smokescreen isn't a worse Invisibility, it's just a different kind, the one not meant to keep you cloaked for the entire mission. His passive is less niche then Loki's. Teleport won't get you on the ban list. Has arguably better skins, but debatably worse deffault look.

[Aadi880]

47 minutes ago, Warrenty said:

Wassup tennos, i've been thinking about whether or not is worth the time to buy either ash prime or loki. I heard that many players said that ash prime is a decent warframe whilst loki prime is best because of his stealth. I just want to know whether or not should i buy both of them or either one of these two.

Loki and Ash are both stealth oriented warframes.

Loki's stealth is defensive in nature. (Disarming and distracting enemies.) His kit affects more than one enemy

Ash's stealth is offensive in nature. (Lowering enemy defenses and killing.) However, hist kit is more single-target oriented. (However, Ash does not have a very good 4th ability)

Whichever one you like, is your personal preference.

[Dhrekr]

As far as I am concerned, Loki is much more powerful.

Ash's kit contains damage powers. However, I am not impressed by his damage.

Loki's invisibility is much better (lasts longer, although can't compare with Ivara in terms of uninterrupted use). Also I am much more a fan of his 4th ability - disarming enemies can still be a very strong strategy, especially in teams where you want to cluster enemies.

 

That is high praise for a Warframe with one useless ability (decoy) and one borderless useless ability (Teleport). However, Helminth is a solution to 50% of that issue.