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examples of Fun Enemies, moar plz


CatboyPrincess

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examples of enemies that i think are fun to fight:

 

Fun

Nox: fun to bust their helmets and hear them make funny noises

Saxum: fun to burst their "shoulder" mouth bits and dismantle them part by part

Carnis: long bois that crawl on surfaces at atypical angles, poggers

 

Not as fun, but okay

Nullifier: kinda fun to blast their globe drone but its hurtbox is wonky

Juggulus: fun to hit their head but hurtbox is wonky

Elite Shield Lancer: a little annoying because of their seemingly instant turn rates, but interesting to fight nonetheless

 

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I'd like more of these sorts of enemies that encourage a variety of approaches.

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I'd like to contribute a few fun ones, myself:

Tusk Bombards (not the Mortar kind). Unlike their more common counterparts who fire slow-moving undodgable homing missiles, Tusk Bombards use a Ballista style aiming mechanism. They use a visible laser sight to lock onto players then fire a single fast-moving dumbfire rocket. A player paying attention can dodge the rocket once the Bombard has locked on, because the Bombard stops tracking at that point. This makes for a FAR better enemy because their presence is clearly announced AND the player has the ability to dodge via parkour or simple movement. They're also not terribly common, which keeps their more complex mechanics from being overwhelming.

Terra Embattor Moa. These Moas deploy very highly-telegraphed area denial ground mines and fire long-range mortar barrage shots which indicate their target with a circle on the ground. While these enemies can be annoying if you're not paying attention, they give players all the information needed to deal with them or at least avoid their fire. In fact, I'd argue that Tusk Mortar Bombards and Turrets ought to use the same mechanics, themselves.

Nullifiers. I have to disagree with you there - I consider Nullifiers to be some of the best-designed units in Warframe. They have a large coloured bubble visible from a distance, they offer different means of combat depending on the player's weapons (bubble is weak to rapid fire, drone is weak to shock damage), they offer shielding for nearby allies and generally encourage the wider use of guns, rather than relying on abilities exclusively. They could use additional tweaks as the drone hitbox does often clip into the bubble making direct shots count as "misses." They could also use a distinct sound package, so that they can be noticed in proximity, not just line of sight. Noxes already do.

Ambulas. The ability to break their armoured parts and gain access to their weak points this way alone is worth a lot. More Warframe enemies could use this design. Additionally, the ability to hack them for temporary support really ought to be more common. Ambulas enemies also tend to behave like proper bosses, with telegraphed spaced-out attacks rather than constant damage spam.

 

As to un-fun, well...

Tusk Tumpers. This is an enemy design in conflict with itself. They have small weak points placed on their legs hidden behind armour. In theory this is good design as it requires both knowledge and marksmanship on the part of players. However, Tusk Thumpers are also ridiculously fast and mobile, meaning they're always moving around, which makes shooting their weak points frustrating for all the wrong reasons. The ability to shoot their guns to disable them temporarily is welcome, but their overall design makes fighting them infuriating, in a bad way.

Sentient Battalyst/Conculyst. Again, a design in conflict with itself. The ability to destroy the arms of Sentients and deny them use of their weapons is good. In practice, "their weapons" are easily the least dangerous forms of offence they have. Blowing up their arms is thus BAD because it causes them to constantly cast the disco ball of death. Additionally, sentient design is ass backwards. They have a glowing energy focus in the middle of their chest which seems like it would be a weak point, but is in fact not even part of their model - shots there miss. Instead their actual weak point is a little nondescript nubbin where one imagines a head might be, which hardly stands out. Why?

Necramechs. These are some of the game's worst designed enemies by far. They have a seeming infinite amount of constant damage spam outright requiring extreme tankiness. They have a substantial slow ability with a massive AoE range that's indicated in absolutely no way and not affected by status effect resistance. They have a convoluted and ill-explained damage reflection / full immunity shield. Yes, they do have weak points - their arms. However, the only real weak point - the one where damage to the Necramech can be done - is on their backs. And like Tusk Thumpers, Necramechs turn around instantly, meaning they're ostensibly not available to fight for a single player. Why would you give an enemy a back weak point but NOT limit their rotation speed, FFS?

Combas/Scrambus. Again, in theory these are well-designed enemies. Blow their helmet and you take away their abilities. In practice, however, they're just a pain. Their AoEs cover an absurdly long range and fire with next to telegraph. They lack any sort of audio cue and have only a minor visual cue that's incredibly easy to miss. Most of the time, I know a Comba/Scrambus exists when I get hit with an expanding bubble from behind. They're supposed to debuff different aspects with different bubble colours, but hell if I know which is which. I've read their Wiki entries and still don't remember. Still no idea why we need both Scrambus AND Comba enemies. They're the same enemy except one kind has space roller blades. I'll take a Nullifier over those A******s any day.

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In my opinion, interesting enemies are defined by not being killed by just throwing damage in their general direction. You should be able to do so, but it should be highly inefficient. Interesting attack patterns and telegraphing thereof helps, but if the enemy is dead before they can perform these actions it doesn't matter.

15 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Sentient Battalyst/Conculyst. Again, a design in conflict with itself. The ability to destroy the arms of Sentients and deny them use of their weapons is good. In practice, "their weapons" are easily the least dangerous forms of offence they have. Blowing up their arms is thus BAD because it causes them to constantly cast the disco ball of death. Additionally, sentient design is ass backwards. They have a glowing energy focus in the middle of their chest which seems like it would be a weak point, but is in fact not even part of their model - shots there miss. Instead their actual weak point is a little nondescript nubbin where one imagines a head might be, which hardly stands out. Why?

I definitely agree that the logic behind sentients should be looked at. Those spin to win attacks are a nightmare in Lua mobile defense, where they run up to the console, do the attack, and you can't do anything about the damage done to the console.

15 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Tusk Tumpers. This is an enemy design in conflict with itself. They have small weak points placed on their legs hidden behind armour. In theory this is good design as it requires both knowledge and marksmanship on the part of players. However, Tusk Thumpers are also ridiculously fast and mobile, meaning they're always moving around, which makes shooting their weak points frustrating for all the wrong reasons. The ability to shoot their guns to disable them temporarily is welcome, but their overall design makes fighting them infuriating, in a bad way.

I think a great way to improve this problem is to decrease its mobility as you kill it, you are in fact destroying their legs.

Other than these 2 issues I like most of the other enemies mentioned above, but more telegraphs and sound cues are always welcome. For instance, I love to echo location you can use to track down demolysts in disruption missions.

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Grunts

they're just hilarious with how cowardly they act. and its so satisfying to just pop one in the head and his gas mask blows off.

not to mention if you manage to actually get killed by one "I get his gun!"

 

Jackals

their shield is nearly impenetrable, but with a carefully aimed shot to their hand they flinch just long enough for you to land a headshot. such a fun doubletap mechanic

 

Hunters

The fighting in pairs like Spartans is just a cool theme

its fun to deal with them; they're essentially invulnerable save for the one weak spot on their backside that's a OHK.

So you can completely bypass the bullet sponge with skill. By watching their charge tell, with perfect timing you can sidestep and get behind them.

"Here comes the big dumb juggernaut, schwoop, pop! dead!"

On some maps, another fun way to deal with them is to trick them into charging off cliffs....

 

 

note that these enemies are all from Halo CE, a nearly 20 year old game.

and its their good animations and AI that make them entertaining and challenging, not just having higher and higher EHP/DPS numbers.

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4 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

I definitely agree that the logic behind sentients should be looked at. Those spin to win attacks are a nightmare in Lua mobile defense, where they run up to the console, do the attack, and you can't do anything about the damage done to the console.

They can be held to break it, but it's just counter-intuitive design. If we can break pieces off the Sentients to remove their abilities, you'd think their most powerful abilities would be the ones that go first. Since we can't break their disco ball of death attack, then shooting their arms becomes a wasted effort. There's also the fact that this attack is actually very difficult to spot. It make almost no distinct sound that I can hear and the visuals - while spectacular - are easily lost in the chaos of combat. Playing Operation Scarlet Spear a while back, people would often die and yell "What killed me?!?" in voice chat, only for us to subsequently spot a Sentient spinning 20 meters away. If you're going to have a massive AoE nuke like that, they ought to telegraph that with visuals and sound. You can't miss a Shockwave Moa's stomp. Sentients, on the other hand? Oftentimes the first you know a Disco Ball attack is coming is when you're eating lasers from it.

 

4 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

I think a great way to improve this problem is to decrease its mobility as you kill it, you are in fact destroying their legs.

That's actually a really neat idea. Destroying two of the Thumpers legs is fairly easy, since two of them will always face you. If that then slowed it down and limited its turn rate, this could make the fight a lot more engaging. Maybe even add something else on it that we can shoot to temporarily stun it? Not to go back into The Division 2 again, but that has a number of those Boston Dynamics dog robot things who spend most of their time running around. All variants have a weak point which, when destroyed, causes them to kneel for about 5 seconds. They then get up and start running around, but you can shoot it again. I had a thread on the subject which I've since lost, but I'm of the opinion that properly complex, challenging enemies can sometimes be EASIER to fight than badly-designed enemies because they give us weaknesses to exploit. More enemies ought to have that.

There's also another issue with Thumper design. Its knees don't have their own health, but rather deal damage to the Thumper's overall health bar. At each 25% health breakpoint, the last leg you shot becomes "broken." What this means is you can damage the Thumper to, say, 76% shooting its front legs, then circle around and deal trivial damage to one of its back legs, breaking that. Do this twice and you take out the back legs with next to no effort, meaning you can deal almost 100% damage to its front legs. I consider this an exploit because it clearly goes against the enemy's design and works through flaws in mechanical implementation, but it also highlights an issue with said design. If fighting an enemy "right" is frustrating to the point where I'm looking for exploits, maybe the design can use more work.

 

4 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

I love to echo location you can use to track down demolysts in disruption missions.

Absolutely agreed. That's one of the reasons I love Disruption, as a point of fact. DE actually added an additional cue when they expanded Disruption across the star chart. Every few seconds, a faint visual effect will "ping" the door through which he Demolyst will be coming. If you're watching the doors, you can usually spot it before you hear it. Even then, though, that's just a cool mechanic. Doors "muffle" sound when they're closed, so players are encouraged to go open them and listen. Standing on top of the Conduit and waiting is usually a bad idea because you hear the Demo too late. Proactively looking for it by checking doors (and if you're lucky, enemies will open the door for you) means you can intercept it well in advance.

Even better, Disruption missions have the potential for multi-tasking, where multiple players run multiple Conduits at once. It's an overall really good, fun mission type. It has its issues, obviously - nothing is perfect. However, it's one of the few game modes in Warframe that manages to keep me awake these days.

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21 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Necramechs. These are some of the game's worst designed enemies by far. They have a seeming infinite amount of constant damage spam outright requiring extreme tankiness. They have a substantial slow ability with a massive AoE range that's indicated in absolutely no way and not affected by status effect resistance. They have a convoluted and ill-explained damage reflection / full immunity shield. Yes, they do have weak points - their arms. However, the only real weak point - the one where damage to the Necramech can be done - is on their backs. And like Tusk Thumpers, Necramechs turn around instantly, meaning they're ostensibly not available to fight for a single player. Why would you give an enemy a back weak point but NOT limit their rotation speed, FFS?

I have one rebuttal, but it also feed back into the main point.

I'm fairly sure you're meant to break the arms, and then bait it to use its charge attack, since that leaves its back open for several seconds as it recovers. Which is good design. Not exactly some A-grade innovative genius, and its got its own quirks and irritations, but a solid mid-range B. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course, the fact there is a decent boss under all the extra BS like the player slow-down and damage reflection nonsense makes it all the more frustrating. Because it should be good and it would have been good, but then DE remembered that cheese and nuke strats exist, and instead of fixing the things that make good boss fights hard to design, they slapped some terrible mechanics onto the boss and called it a day.

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5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Absolutely agreed. That's one of the reasons I love Disruption, as a point of fact. DE actually added an additional cue when they expanded Disruption across the star chart. Every few seconds, a faint visual effect will "ping" the door through which he Demolyst will be coming. If you're watching the doors, you can usually spot it before you hear it. Even then, though, that's just a cool mechanic. Doors "muffle" sound when they're closed, so players are encouraged to go open them and listen. Standing on top of the Conduit and waiting is usually a bad idea because you hear the Demo too late. Proactively looking for it by checking doors (and if you're lucky, enemies will open the door for you) means you can intercept it well in advance.

Another great feature is the encouragement of using Enemy radar, since the pathing of the demolyst is way more directional than most other enemies and usually spawn further away. It might be linked to the the door ping you mentioned, when they are on the radar I often see a red arrow pointing toward the direction they are coming from. These might mainly be more disruption based instead of enemy based, but adding these sort of features really make enemies better.

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If we talk about fun, personally? I find the infested of deimos, all of them, to be pretty fun to engage. 

They are relentless, strong, and literally won't stop at random times like grineer and corpus, to tear you to pieces. 

You are forced to prioritize your targets and surroundings. Juggulus spawns? Take it down fast, but don't ignore the smaller and faster chargers!

Deimos really teaches you to be wary of the enemy. 

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fun enemies:

Juggernauts: they make Eris missions a little more exciting than just mopping up hallways of squishy infested, dodging the charge attacks and waiting for the openi9ng, avoiding the Gas clouds they make, they're an enemy that encourage you to stay mobile and that's what i like.

Amalgams: sure, they can be killed quickly but they have interesting attacks, and the Satyrs are freaky. I wish they were more common outside of disruptions, and maybe appeared whenever the alarms are active on Jupiter.

Deimos Carnis Rex: Centipedes and Earwigs are really underrated in terms of fear factor compared to Spiders: especially Earwigs they got lots of legs, pincers, and have a real nasty attitude, they try to bite anything! Carnis Rex is one of the best looking and most fun Infested units: tough, and with some damaging moves, but not overly difficult or bullet spongey. 

unfun enemies:

Ratels: these are why I prioritize Sniper Crewmen. leave them too long and the floor gets covered in these little &^%&*( that roll around and zap at you constantly, and are a pain in the a$$ to hit without AoE weapons. at least the Minima Moas have the decency to kill themselves..

Ancients: ripline ripline ripline, ripline ripline, ripline ripline. RIPLINE!

Manic Bombards: not because they're hard, but because their AI is broken and all they do is run at you, literally. I'd love for them to be fixed so we can have a proper fight and they can be more like the threat they're supposed to be.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Juggernauts: they make Eris missions a little more exciting than just mopping up hallways of squishy infested, dodging the charge attacks and waiting for the openi9ng, avoiding the Gas clouds they make, they're an enemy that encourage you to stay mobile and that's what i like.

I would agree on Juggernauts if they weren't so stingy with their weak points. I've had multiple instances of staring down a Juggernaut, ignoring everything else around him, just daring him to "open up." And then he charges across the room and I have to go look for him again because his dumb charge is 10 miles long. High-level Juggernauts just have too much health relative to how infrequently they show their weak points, for my taste. Maybe if shooting their weak points staggered them I wouldn't be as upset. It's a good design overall, though - just in need of tweaking on its timing, I think.

Actually come to think of it - fighting a Juggernaut feels a bit like fighting an Aerolyst initially. Cool design, but timing is way too tight for that to be a fun fight.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Manic Bombards: not because they're hard, but because their AI is broken and all they do is run at you, literally. I'd love for them to be fixed so we can have a proper fight and they can be more like the threat they're supposed to be.

What about standard Manics? You know, the ones that disappear when you shoot them so you have to wait for them to turn up 3-4 times due to damage clamps? I literally do not understand the logic of this design. If the Manic disappears any time a bit of damage is done to it and comes back later, then the game could just as well spawn 3 of them and not bother. When a Manic shows up in a regular mission for me, I often forget they exist because I chase them off once and move on. If I end up killing them, it's by accident shooting at something else when they pop up in front of me and catch my fire. And even then, I only know I've killed them by their distinct death scream. Manics seriously need some kind of redesign where 90% of fighting them isn't sitting on my hands waiting. Might make the Tyl Regor fight a bit less boring, too.

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