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The Cortege is supposed to be an Archgun FLAMETHROWER right? Then how come it doesn't fire like a flamethrower at all? Why is it a narrow beam?


(PSN)GingyGreen

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An ancient weapon designed by the Entrati for use by their Necramechs. Primary fire siphons life essence from the target to fuel a devastating alt fire. A heavy flamethrower with surprising range. Alt fire launches three projectiles in a fan pattern that explode, leaving a damaging area of effect for a short duration.

 

All things considered, this should have been a Giant version of the Ignis, you know, the only other flamethrower in the game. But not only does the Cortege not fire anything like a flamethrower at all like the Ignis, but it doesn't even have punchthrough nor the Ignis' swarm killing potential.

 

 

The weapon is actually extremely weak by Archgun standards, only good at killing Infested chaff atm, and even then it's outdone by a lot of Archguns with built in aoe themselves. At the very least you could do is change it so that it actually works like a flamethrower and give it an englarged version of Ignis' flame stream attack.

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I agree, the Cortege was a huge disappointment for me, especially since the grind for the parts was a real chore.

I leveled it for MR and since then it´s just sitting in my inventory, it´s completely useless as it is. I even got a Riven for it but since the disposition is only 0.5, this isn´t worth using either.

I imagined the Cortege as a wide cone of punch-through fire which creates burning spots on obstacles or the ground, similar to firewalker.

Guess DE will rework and buff it once they realise no one is using it.

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technically speaking, Flame Throwers do create a very narrow 'beam', of high pressure Combustible Liquid, that is on Fire, which splashes around on impact and fills areas. since Flamethrowers run on either Gasoline or Napalm.

Gas Throwers are the Hollywood style Flame Thrower that people generally think of, which spews a cloud of burning Gas.

 

i bring that up because both of these styles could be considered correct to be a Flame Thrower, depending on who you ask. (if you would like an easy to digest visual aid of this in Video Games, compare Killing Floor with Killing Floor 2 - in the original the Flame Thrower was a true Flamethrower, firing a stream of high pressure Napalm towards a target area with high potential Range. while in Killing Floor 2 it opted towards being a Gas Thrower with much more limited Range)
also while Ignis does have some width do it, it's still kind've an invisible laser beam with an Explosion on the end.

 

with that in mind, off the top of my head i could just say that this Weapon could offer both at once? a wide sweeping Gas Thrower, and a narrow Flame Thrower. this would let such a Weapon cover both short and long Range, plus some other features.
so what i envision is the short Range Gas cloud would be something like a 60°, 8-10 Meter cloud of Fire. while the long Range 'beam' would be maybe 1 Meter wide but be able to reach out to ~35-40 Meters. plus the narrow type would set the ground on Fire at the impact point for 5 or 10 seconds or so.
what i also envision, is that both forms would have a pretty alright Crit Multiplier but a somewhat crummy Crit Chance. however the longer an Enemy is hit by either mode, the higher the Crit Chance is on that Enemy. alternatively would be Crit Chance goes up the more Fire Status stacks Cortege has applied to the Enemy. either one of these sounds cool&different.
let's say...... 5% / 2.2x. either +100% Crit Chance per second of attacking an Enemy, or +50% per Fire Status stack.

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58 minutes ago, taiiat said:

technically speaking, Flame Throwers do create a very narrow 'beam', of high pressure Combustible Liquid, that is on Fire, which splashes around on impact and fills areas. since Flamethrowers run on either Gasoline or Napalm.

Yes but I'm sure you know what most people refer to when they say flamethrowers in a looter shooter. The game only had 1 flamethrower in the form of the Ignis, so that's the most logical reference point to work with.

 

The current Cortege fires like it's a Glaxion Vandal.

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It's literally a side-grade Ignis, with the same hitbox, range, and everthing. They only removed the infinite enemy punch through, but Sabot Rounds makes that almost a non-factor. If you want a different primary and an Ignis that runs out of ammo, then it's your gun. 

The gun could use some love to warrant the limited ammo, but it doesn't have a "narrow" hitbox compared to the Ignis like you mention. Just put on Sabot Rounds.

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Its a SPACE "Flamethrower" that also might be used UNDERWATER.    Flame, gas and fuel streams will not work in such diverse environments.

   That is why it is delivering Heat through laser beam.   Flames would look hella weird underwater. 

 

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On 2020-10-13 at 9:31 PM, Kainosh said:

Its a SPACE "Flamethrower" that also might be used UNDERWATER.    Flame, gas and fuel streams will not work in such diverse environments.

   That is why it is delivering Heat through laser beam.   Flames would look hella weird underwater. 

 

Lasers would look even weirder underwater. In particular because the first thing the laser would hit is the water directly in front of the muzzle. The resulting explosion would destroy your gun and do far more damage to you than the enemy.

In fact, a directed fuel stream might maintain its coherence, especially if the fuel and water do not mix. Don't ask me for any examples, the maths for creating a sustained directional flow of two non-mixing fluids is horribly complicated and you'd almost certainly benefit if the fuel were magnetic or electrically conductive and could use electric current or magnetic field to sustain the "projectile" shape.

A sonic wave gun is far more practical if you want some kind of flamethrower-like thing underwater, but that'll be completely useless in space.

All that said, I've no idea what this cortege thing is, Whatever it's supposed to be, the parts don't seem to exist in-game and there's no point in considering imaginary items.

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4 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Lasers would look even weirder underwater. In particular because the first thing the laser would hit is the water directly in front of the muzzle. The resulting explosion would destroy your gun and do far more damage to you than the enemy.

In fact, a directed fuel stream might maintain its coherence, especially if the fuel and water do not mix. Don't ask me for any examples, the maths for creating a sustained directional flow of two non-mixing fluids is horribly complicated and you'd almost certainly benefit if the fuel were magnetic or electrically conductive and could use electric current or magnetic field to sustain the "projectile" shape.

A sonic wave gun is far more practical if you want some kind of flamethrower-like thing underwater, but that'll be completely useless in space.

All that said, I've no idea what this cortege thing is, Whatever it's supposed to be, the parts don't seem to exist in-game and there's no point in considering imaginary items.

If emitter is adapted to function underwater, and is submerged, nothing will explode.    Just like it doesn't explode from contact with air in open worlds. 

Its very simple.  Laser pointer works underwater and in space.  Zippo lighter doesn't.    Rest is sci-fi and oversizing.

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14 hours ago, Kainosh said:

If emitter is adapted to function underwater, and is submerged, nothing will explode.    Just like it doesn't explode from contact with air in open worlds. 

Its very simple.  Laser pointer works underwater and in space.  Zippo lighter doesn't.    Rest is sci-fi and oversizing.

Light gets absorbed quite effectively by water. There's a reason why it gets dark as you dive. When you're talking about energy levels which are capable of melting steel (it's a fair assumption that these futuretech enemy spaceships have armour which is at least as good as modern-day steel), even a small part of that being absorbed is going to create a huge steam explosion as it flash-boils the water directly in front of the gun's muzzle.

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14 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Laser pointer works underwater and in space.

Not really. Have you noticed how it bends and cuts off pretty quickly when you shine one into the ocean?

 

 

But that's besides the point. You're just playing devil's advocate with your "it's a SPACE flamethrower! flame gas and fuel won't work the same underwater!"-argument. How the hell do you think the velocitus, fluctus, and larkspur still work underwater? Or how the fluctus doesn't blow in your face the moment it even dips into the water?

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1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

Light gets absorbed

Sure, but not instantly....unlike flames and gas.     You still can bring light source deep underwater and it will work.  Have you never dived?

What I want to say is:   Focused beam of radiation (light, heat or whatever) is BETTER for this than stream of fuel or gas.  In many ways.

1 hour ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Or how the fluctus doesn't blow in your face the moment it even dips into the water?

Why should it?  It fires solid waves of energy with high Slash.  Those are like giant blades, and have great punch through.

They are not superheated or somethin...so, yeah, no explosions.  Its just a massive cutting line. Cuts water as well as anything in it. 

 

You can argue all you want, but burning fuel/gas is not an option here.   You can only use beams, waves, pulses or projectiles to emulate flamethrower effect.

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28 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Sure, but not instantly....unlike flames and gas.     You still can bring light source deep underwater and it will work.  Have you never dived?

You can, but the light does not go far. Nowhere near as far as it would in the air.

Again, the light is being absorbed. It doesn't get stopped immediately, but part of it does get absorbed. Go and read this:  https://ocean-innovations.net/companies/deepsea/knowledgebase/understanding-basics-underwater-lighting/

At best, it takes 10 metres for the beam intensity to drop by a half. This means that half of the beam's energy has been absorbed by the water and turned into heat. Note again that the energies involved here are enough to melt or even vapourise steel.  Boiling water takes much less energy than boiling (or melting) steel. Again, if you shoot a weapons-grade laser underwater, you're going to get a steam explosion right in front of your gun's barrel.

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3 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Again, if you shoot a weapons-grade laser underwater, you're going to get a steam explosion right in front of your gun's barrel.

You don't read at all....how can you understand if you skip?

Beam can be protected from water with a forcefield "tube".   You cant do that to flames because of shape.  Its much harder to create lore for "underwater flame" than for "underwater beam"

Also, beam already works in Space without any extras, so is much more practical than flames.   

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On 2020-10-13 at 9:36 AM, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Primary fire siphons life essence from the target to fuel a devastating alt fire. A heavy flamethrower with surprising range. 

Welp maybe wording is not very clear there but as for me, this means that primary fire is some "life-siphoning" mode and alt fire is "heavy flamethrower with surprising range". 

While you can think of flamethrower being a weapon shooting a short beam/cone of fire, IRL modern flamethrowers are RPGs/mortars that throw a capsule with napalm at a target, this is much more efficient. And Cortege alt fire kinda does the same. 

Problem with Cortege is not in lost functions but in its misleading description. IMO DE should change two things - merge these two quoted sentences, and maybe rename its alt fire to something like incendiary mortar. Like that:

     Primary fire siphons life essence from the target to fuel a devastating alt fire - an incendiary mortar with surprising range. 

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4 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Beam can be protected from water with a forcefield "tube".   You cant do that to flames because of shape.  Its much harder to create lore for "underwater flame" than for "underwater beam"

Then how come I can go out and buy one of these today: https://www.seascapesubsea.com/product/underwater-cutting-torch/

There's a reason why you don't have underwater laser cutters. Beam attenuation is simple, very well known physics.

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17 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Then how come I can go out and buy one of these today: https://www.seascapesubsea.com/product/underwater-cutting-torch/

Torch is basically a thin, very short plasma beam, that is protected and boosted by oxygen stream(bubble).   It works only within oxy bubble...that's not "underwater", as plasma doesn't contact with water at all.

Pretty much....if you replace oxy bubble with Fieldron adapted for underwater use, and increase plasma beam's length.....you get underwater heat beam weapon.

 But It is not a flamethrower still. No cone. No huge aoe. You get what you already have.

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