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October 2020 Riven Disposition Update Preview


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8 minutes ago, exturkconner said:

It is what it is. But yeah if a new weapon comes out and it's best in class and people love it and use it a lot it's not going to be likely to get a riven increase. That's just how it is now.

Yes, and that sucks just as much as your favorite weapon getting a reduction. Except BOTH of those things happen now. Improvements!

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I guess I don't quite understand the changes to primary rivens. Primaries in my book have almost always been garbage or slightly less garbage. Warframe is a looter shooter with the game revolving around kills per second. Many of the weapons that got a nerf are decent but not exceptional or outstanding (I am referring to gear that is steel path viable). Now the claim that if I want to use a weapon that is extremely lack luster in damage, crit, or status or something, that I just need to get a riven. Rivens should not be the replacement for weapon buffs or fixes. That being said, I believe rivens should be a buff to the weapons stats as they have been. Forcing bad weapons to require rivens just to be usuable in content that is Lv60+ to steel path is just something that doesnt work. So, when good weapons or decent weapons in the primary slot gets nerfed or their riven dispos lowered, I am often confused because there is a pretty obvious reason why everyone is using that weapon specifically for the primary slot. Its not that the weapon is god tier, its that there is so many other garbage weapons that this just breaks the surface and is like a blessing that O M G, this primary does not suck. As for arch guns...... thats another head ache in itself. 

Edited by KankeiKen
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Just now, (NSW)Blankus said:

Yes, and that sucks just as much as your favorite weapon getting a reduction. Except BOTH of those things happen now. Improvements!

Never said it was an improvement. Said it is how it is. But given what the intention of rivens are. It makes sense. I'm not a fan of the system of basing dispo off of use. I think it should be based off of objective strength. But in most cases it essentially ends up being the same. There aren't really all that many outliers where weak weapons get a ton of use and a stronger weapon that's similar gets less. 

 

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Lol still keeping up with ALL New weapons and variations Start at a useless 0.5 dispo? 

Fine then.  I'll never buy another prime access weapon or weapon from the market ever again until the starting 0.5 diso is reversed.  

Nothing says don't buy me more than all new prime variations getting a massively significant riven nerf while the weapon stat increases by about 1%. 

You must think we are stupid if we are going to switch over from a weapon that had barely less base stats but a significantly higher dispo.  

Neutral dispo for new weapons was perfectly acceptable. All this  just because you don't want to play test new weapons before they come out (Bramma drama).

Also, separating variations like Primes from non with different Riven dispositions was a very bad move. 

The whole point of a new variation was to get something slightly better to push a build to a higher limit.  all you've done is make "upgrades" into downgrades. 

Youve taken away all excitement for new primes and new weapons.  I'm not some Mr 3 and for anyone who plays the game a lot they're going to min Max their favorite gear and often new gear to see what it can do.  you've taken all of that excitement away. Why would anyone be excited for Guandao prime?  yeah it'll have a 1% stat difference but it'll have a massively lower disposition than regular guandao.  literally zero reason to be excited for its prime if you intend on min maxing it to get the most of it which is a whole hell of a lot less than what regular Guandao can achieve. 

Like bruh.  do you NOT want players to Max new weapons and primes? Do you not want us to look forward to new weapons? 

 

I'm not even salty about your current Riven changes. 

I waited years for Guandao prime and knowing it'll be significantly worse the day it hits compared to the old regular Guandao is sad.  

Yada yada  though, doubt you care about what I say here.  actions speak louder than words and me and a bunch of others will be speaking with our wallets.  

Edited by wizardeiges
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Tbh i give a fck on rivens since all the crap with periodically dispo changes are occuring. On this way i cant be frustrated anymore by having worse stats than before.

First came the Dispo changes, then the fact that special versions (aka prime, kuva) have worse dipso than its normal version resulting in some weapons are better with riven than its prime version which is just insane. 

I wonder what comes next? The fact that new weapons have innitiate 0.5 Dispo just makes no sense at all. Just a arbitrarily number to prevent OP Rivens. 
 

Get rid off Rivens System at all or make it more consistent but stopp messing around with it like that plz.

Thx

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48 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

well....why im even coming to such threads every 3 month...to feel bad again and again?  

Love nerfing every time alot of hardgrinding stuff people have for years, in NON-competitive game. Jesus. They think this will make people play more, cause they need to do something about bad rivens now and obtain new "better weapon rivens"? no, lol. They will just login, check this, and then log out.   

Seriously, nobody likes when THEIR ITEMS suddenly become WORSE than they supposed to be.   

Im still waiting for a changes, when i could come to game and farm things which wont suck later. So if i choosed to waste time/money  on 112% something - i SHOULD HAVE it for all time. Not until devs are happy -_-

absolutely agree. DE need to stop judging everytjing by looking at usage statistics and do their job by finally fixing the dam bugs and develop content. to hell with the nerfs already, especially on weapons that have already been nerfed twice in a row. WAKE UP DE !!!

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1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

Kronen Prime: 1.05->0.85

Sad. While I was expecting it to touch .75 soon, I do dislike this mechanic.
I've been using kronen prime for the past 2 years, much before the melee update. That update just made this weapon useful and made everyone realise how good looking and fun it's to use.
Nerfing it all the way down to .5, till no one uses it anymore and it becomes semi useless again is probably the aim here?

I'll be one of the few who still has wings on my back.
Hmmm, I guess something positive out of this anyway.

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39 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Can we just remove Disposition? These arbitrary changes don't make Kronen Prime less compelling than a Telos Boltace. It would be way easier on DE and more fun and consistent for players if every weapon was a Neutral Disposition.

Xoris is a good example of the fundamental issue with Disposition. Glaive Prime for example has better stats, and Xoris still has the worst t

39 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Can we just remove Disposition? These arbitrary changes don't make Kronen Prime less compelling than a Telos Boltace. It would be way easier on DE and more fun and consistent for players if every weapon was a Neutral Disposition.

Xoris is a good example of the fundamental issue with Disposition. Glaive Prime for example has better stats, and Xoris still has the worst Disposition.

 

if every weapon had equal riven disposition, that would make certain weapons obsolete... it's just a lack of oversight 

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Looks like you gave a lot of weapon minor buffs (that i'm still glad for) to hide the fact that you're HAMMERING on some weapons like the paracesis, plague kip and dragon nikana (nice job missing the point on that last one btw, it's supposed to be an alternative to the nikana prime with slightly worse stats but a much better dispo, but now it's just trash).

Put a hard MR cap on the kuva weapons (maybe even pry them away from low MR player), undo that confusing and punishing "variant have different dispo" system and either work on a real riven rework (hint: BASE STATS) or just put everything at max dispo and let people have fun.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

Yesterday, we released the Nights of Naberus update across all console platforms. Unfortunately, this update accidentally featured some Riven disposition changes that were scheduled to be released with Nezha Prime Access. We sincerely apologize for the unexpected tricks and treats!

These changes have since been removed from all consoles, but in the interest of transparency, we wanted to share the exact changes you can expect when this update returns to all platforms. All of the trends explained in our last Riven workshop still hold true - there are fewer gun reductions than ever, and melees are still in a state of flux. Archgun Rivens are also being added to the mix from this point forward!

Without further ado, numbers are as follows:

PRIMARY:

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Acceltra: 0.65->0.6

Arca Plasmor: 0.65->0.7

Amprex: 0.7->0.75

Catchmoon (primary): 0.75->0.9

Corinth: 1.05->1.1

Gaze (primary): 0.65->0.85

Kuva Bramma: 0.65->0.6

Kuva Drakgoon: 1.05->1.1

Panthera Prime: 0.5->0.85

Rattleguts (primary): 0.6->0.8

Shedu: 0.85->0.8

Stahlta: 0.7->0.8

Tigris: 1->1.1
Sancti Tigris: 0.85->0.9

Tombfinger (primary): 0.6->0.75

Trumna: 0.5->0.55


SECONDARY:

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Akbolto: 1.2->1.25
Telos Akbolto: 1.15->1.2
Akbolto Prime: 1.05->1.1

Akjagara: 0.95->1

Akstilletto: 0.8->0.9

Kuva Nukor: 0.65->0.5

Pyrana: 0.8->0.9

Sepulcrum: 0.5->0.75

Staticor: 0.53->0.6

Velox: 0.8->1

Zymos: 0.5->0.75


MELEE:

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Ack & Brunt: 1.25->1.35

Arca Titron: 1.2->1.25

Atterax: 0.9->0.95

Boltace: 1.2->1.25
Telos Boltace: 1->1.05

Broken Scepter: 1.35->1.4

Broken War: 1.05->1.1

Cassowar: 1.25->1.3

Cobra & Crane: 1.25->1.3

Dark Dagger: 0.9->1.1
Rakta Dark Dagger: 0.8->0.95

Dehtat: 1.15->1.2

Dex Dakra: 1.3->1.35

Dragon Nikana: 1.2->1.15

Dual Kamas: 1.15->1.25
Dual Kamas Prime: 1.05->1.15

Dual Keres: 1.2->1.1

Endura: 1.3->1.4

Falcor: 1.25->1.3

Fragor: 1.15->1.2

Galatine: 0.85->0.95
Galatine Prime: 0.65->0.7

Galvacord: 1.25->1.3

Gram Prime: 1.05->0.9

Gunsen: 1.25->1.3

Hate: 1.2->1.1

Heliocor: 1.25->1.3
Synoid Heliocor: 1.2->1.25

Hirudo: 0.95->1.05

Jat Kittag: 1.15->1.25

Karyst Prime: 0.5->0.75

Keratinos: 0.5->0.7

Korrudo: 1.25->1.3

Kreska: 1.25->1.3

Kronen Prime: 1.05->0.85

Kronsh: 1.25->1.3

Ceti Lacera: 1.05->1.1

Lecta: 1->1.15
Secura Lecta: 0.9->1

Lesion: 0.65->0.7

Magistar: 1.3->1.35
Sancti Magistar: 1.2->1.25

Masseter: 1.15->1.2

Nikana: 0.8->0.9
Nikana Prime: 0.5->0.6

Prisma Obex: 1.2->1.25

Ooltha: 1.15->1.2

Orthos: 0.85->0.95

Orvius: 1.3->1.35

Paracesis: 0.7->0.6

Pathocyst: 1.25->1.3

Plague Kripath: 0.65->0.6

Pupacyst: 1.25->1.3

Quassus: 0.5->0.75

Rabvee: 1.2->1.25

Reaper Prime: 1->0.85

Redeemer: 1.17->1
Redeemer Prime: 0.8->0.65

Scindo: 1.3->1.35

Sepfahn: 0.75->0.7

Sydon: 1.15->1.25
Vaykor Sydon: 1.1->1.2

Twin Krohkur: 1.25->1.2

Venka: 0.9->1

War: 0.9->0.95

Wolf Sledge: 1.2->1.25

Xoris: 0.5->0.65

Zenistar: 0.95->1.05


ARCHGUNS:

  Hide contents

Cortege: 0.5->0.7

Corvas: 1.05->1.1

Dual Decurion: 1.25->1.3

Fluctus: 0.9->1

Grattler: 0.95->1

Imperator: 0.85->1

Larkspur: 0.8->0.85

Phaedra: 1.15->1.2

Velocitus: 1.05->1.1

Thanks everyone - expect these changes to go live on all platforms when Nezha Prime arrives in the near future!

b..bu...but.... 

when next half of the current round of teenogen?

 

M I T H R A N O V A H Y P E

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1 hour ago, Captain_Rocket505 said:

Really? Bad enough with the changes in deadlock protocol, now this? Really?? I mean come on the riven disposition is justified for a nerf somewhat but this is beating a dead horse (or however the saying goes)

Sleeping well, I see.

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DE should put a big fat disclaimer that says “DUE TO THE CONSTANT CHANGES TO DISPOSITION. RIVEN MODS A RISKY INVESTMENT, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK” before someone jumps into the can of worms that is riven mods. Rivens are not meant to be super charging meta weapons and it will never will.

Do that and you can get less complaints. Most of the complaints I saw here doesn’t really know what is the intent of the riven system.

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54 minutes ago, (NSW)MeteorMashii said:

if every weapon had equal riven disposition, that would make certain weapons obsolete... it's just a lack of oversight 

So you're telling me there's a Disposition difference that makes Kronen Prime less compelling than any other Tonfa? Good one. Weapons are obsolete when they can't deal Slash damage, don't have proper base stats, can't do both crits & status at the same time, can't obliterate enemies. can't one-shot Eidolons, etc. Riven Mods really don't influence the popularity of a weapon all that much as people perceive it to. If you want to know why weapons become obsolete or why things become popular, it's the Content Creator system, not the Riven system.

Tonkor proved this from the time DE added Riven Mods before Disposition in 2016, with the addition of Disposition, and when Tonkor was nerfed. Catchmoon proved the same thing, and Kronen Prime and Kuva Nukor are the next best examples. Weapons are good because of their base stats. There are very few weapons where a Riven Mod really changes up the weapon comparison charts. DE shook up the meta for melee weapons by changing the melee system, not changing a Disposition.

Every weapon having Neutral Disposition would not change what players gravitate towards as far as choice goes.

Edited by Voltage
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18 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Do that and you can get less complaints. Most of the complaints I saw here doesn’t really know what is the intent of the riven system.

Please, do tell.

The Riven Disposition's intentions by DE's own words is :

Quote

"you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa."

"- This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones."

Please explain how a Xoris Riven Mod at .65 is more powerful than a Glaive Prime Riven at 1.22?

How is this "breathing new life" into discarded weapons when players discard weapons for being bad anyways. A fully built, perfect Riven secondary is still second class to a Kuva Nukor with no Riven Mod. No Disposition will ever change that and these "intentions" are statements from a perspective that is not within reality. The way DE shakes up weapon usage is by nerfing overpowered gear or buffing bad ones. Do you know what got people to use something other than Atterax or Scoliac? It wasn't a Disposition change. Do you know what got people to use something other than Imperator Vandal in Profit-Taker? Not a Disposition change. Players gravitate towards what a Youtuber showcases or what is hot in the community. I can gaurentee that even if Telos Boltace and Ohma had a Disposition of 1.55, Kronen Prime would still be the most used Tonfa by a wide margin even if it was .50.

The changes to Disposition between Variants is also insanely annoying for players as the more your Riven approaches perfection, the less of an improvement a variant gives you over a base weapon. I proved this with Aksomati, and this affects other weapons as well (such as Opticor Vandal).

Edited by Voltage
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2 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Considering I am not going to even think about crafting the Corinth Prime untill it somehow get's an alternative reload that lets's load shell by shell, I am personally ok with this.

Considering the gigantic buff to altfire damage, I consider the change in reload to be only too fair.

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1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Please explain how a Xoris Riven Mod at .65 is more powerful than a Glaive Prime Riven at 1.22?

Simple Xoris has more usage because Glaive Prime was a vaulted weapon until very recently. Xoris still has the infinite combo time convenience and accessible early game. 

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24 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Simple Xoris has more usage because Glaive Prime was a vaulted weapon until very recently. Xoris still has the infinite combo time convenience and accessible early game. 

I asked a power question, from an objective gameplay/stats perspective. Availability is unrelated. The infinite Combo convenience is nice, but that doesn't constitute almost half the Disposition. Let me show you how this feels in a practical sense.

Base Stats comparison:

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Riven Mod comparison:

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Builds comparison (I tried my best to make equivalent builds):

unknown.png

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This is also assuming I don't run Naramon with Glaive Prime. If I do, I can swap Gladiator Rush for Organ Shatter or even more direct damage.

As you can see, the Xoris is outclassed in every area. The passive is the only thing it has over Glaive Prime, but it holds no practical real world performance candle to the Glaive Prime which has a much larger Disposition (1.22 vs now .65 from .50). Disposition is a flawed mechanic that holds little influence over the gear players go for.

Edited by Voltage
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