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October 2020 Riven Disposition Update Preview


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It's funny, how DE seem to transform themselves more and more into an "anti-consumer company" over the course of the years as if they fight a war against their playerbase or whatever... I don't know. For me personally, the different dispos for regular and prime variants of a weapon and the 0.5 starting disposition for new weapons has completely killed any exitement for new weapon releases at all... I'm a riven collector, because I like to experiment with all kinds of stuff and because I don't want to use the same two or three weapons all the time. From that perspective, I don't care about dispo changes, because I'll always have something that goes under the radar and gets the job done equally well, but from a fun perspective, above mentioned changes took a lot of that, sadly... 

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4 hours ago, Voltage said:

It has never once kept powercreep in check. Please give me an example of a Disposition less than 1.00 that has any practical impact on the power ceiling compared to a Neutral Riven for the same weapon.

Okay I'll give you an example. 1.00 Dispo Kuva Nukor Riven. With it, it makes players think "Why should I even bother to invest other weapon when I can just whip out Kuva Nukor with my super meta riven?". Then other people starts to realize this and everyone and their grandmas uses Nukor and the weapon's usage usage skyrocket. Because DE has the "locked dispo" in place and they are staying committed to it DE has no choice but to nerf the weapon itself in the name of balance. Do you want that system in place? Me? Heck No.

Or if DE let that slide. Future content now revolves around the nukor. With that, it made other weapons even more irrelevant than they already are. You will see more bullcrap mechanic enemies and bosses in the process. 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

It's funny, how DE seem to transform themselves more and more into an "anti-consumer company" over the course of the years as if they fight a war against their playerbase or whatever... I don't know. For me personally, the different dispos for regular and prime variants of a weapon and the 0.5 starting disposition for new weapons has completely killed any exitement for new weapon releases at all... I'm a riven collector, because I like to experiment with all kinds of stuff and because I don't want to use the same two or three weapons all the time. From that perspective, I don't care about dispo changes, because I'll always have something that goes under the radar and gets the job done equally well, but from a fun perspective, above mentioned changes took a lot of that, sadly... 

Lol

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6 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Oh! Withholding that sweet sweet $150 from them every three months. Keep at it, they'll break in no time! That or go under with that loss.

If DE operates like other free to plays, the % of the population buying the more expensive cosmetics will be quite low, but the % of revenue from those people will be reasonably high (anywhere from 30-80% of all revenue)

Most people don't change their spending habits due to game balance. but if enough people do, then DE would be forced to take notice of the community.

I'm not a big spender, my personal gripe is that DE spends the time and effort to nerf things that don't really need nerfing but refuse to fix item/skill breaking bugs for literal years.

 

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4 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

Ahh yes changes to an irrelevant system. The only thing i took from this is, the kuva nukor is getting alot of use which means DE are going to use their big brain and nerf yet another weapon into the floor that is objectively fine. 

well, they will if people use this gun for more than 50% of overall second guns.

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2 minutes ago, ToKeSia said:

well, they will if people use this gun for more than 50% of overall second guns.

Usage is not a good metric for nerfs. The catchmoon was in no way overpowered when it got its nerf, there were plenty of strong secondaries at the time. The decision making of the balance team is comical nowadays. People using a weapon so much probably shows how bad the majority of our options are. And the other problem is pointing back to our catchmoon, after its nerf the weapon is now fodder, they nerf into the floor instead of just shaving things away. 

Edited by spudster888.
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Just now, spudster888. said:

Usage is not a good metric for nerfs. The catchmoon was in now way overpowered when it got its nerf, there were plenty of strong secondaries at the time. The decision making of the balance team is comical nowadays. People using a weapon so much probably shows how bad the majority of our options are. 

kuva nukor is next, believe me because people always choose meta over anything else and it happen in every games.

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1 minute ago, ToKeSia said:

kuva nukor is next, believe me because people always choose meta over anything else and it happen in every games.

DE are free to keep ruining their game all they like. Also you act like a 'meta' is bad. When you say meta, i read that as the good stuff. I have 0 interest in using garbage or subpar equipment. 

Edited by spudster888.
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12 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

Usage is not a good metric for nerfs. The catchmoon was in no way overpowered when it got its nerf, there were plenty of strong secondaries at the time. The decision making of the balance team is comical nowadays. People using a weapon so much probably shows how bad the majority of our options are. And the other problem is pointing back to our catchmoon, after its nerf the weapon is now fodder, they nerf into the floor instead of just shaving things away. 

Except that it is....and that the catchmoon was overpowered....

You know that just saying inaccurate things doesn't magically make them accurate, correct? Lol

And my catchmoon is still great, it wasn't nerfed to the floor if you actually mod it correctly. 

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Just now, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Except that it is....and that the catchmoon was overpowered....

You know that just saying inaccurate things doesn't magically make them accurate, correct? Lol

And my catchmoon is still great, it wasn't nerfed to the floor if you actually mod it correctly. 

I have no idea which game you played where the catchmoon was overpowered, i had a riven for mine and even that wasn't something i would have considered overpowered. The weapon was mostly single target, the only benefit the thing had was that you really didn't have to aim, a weapon like the tombfinger or buffed gaze were both stronger weapons. 

Also congratulations, making the modding statement makes you look like a knob. Secondaries have mostly static builds, 7 of the 8 mods you put into a secondary goes into 99% of the secondaries in the game. If you actually knew anything about warframe, you'd know the modding comment really doesn't apply to secondaries ....

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9 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Oh! Withholding that sweet sweet $150 from them every three months. Keep at it, they'll break in no time! That or go under with that loss.

Quote

It's not a matter of doing or not doing it. It's a matter of using it as an infantile threat with the assumption someone at DE will crack the whip and the entire team will jump to whatever they want done.

A bit disappointing that's all you had to say about what I posted. 

lol Like I haven't given them enough of my money already.
They sure don't seem to care one single bit about what I have to say about their ridiculous riven changes and they sure don't seem to care how little sense their 0.5 dispo for everything across the board makes for all new weapon releases and variation releases. If they don't seem to care about my feedback then please tell me,how am I supposed to be heard if not from my wallet? They're a business and a business will always value money before everything else so clearly money speaks louder than words and if you think otherwise then i'd ask that you reevaluate how you think businesses operate.

Tell me,why should I spend money on something that's inferior in every single way to something I can easily craft from a blueprint off the market when a PRIME weapon should always be better than its regular counterpart?

Because of them nerfing weapons before they're released in fear of creating a kuva bramma 2.0,the older variants hold much more value in every single way.   Why then,tell me,should I spend money on something that's so inferior? Shouldn't I get value for my money? or should I light it on fire?

As I explained,i'm not a new player. I'm a player that frequently partakes in what DE considers endgame which includes minmaxing and playing their riven game with the kuva grinds.  I refuse to settle for something inferior that costs me money when something better costs me nothing. If you think me "infantile"(as you put it) for refusing to support something I disagree with then I can't imagine where you spend your money so blindly but hey,that's your choice no matter what. Also it wasn't a threat,it was a statement and a rather good choice in my opinion. I strongly doubt you spend money on things you don't want to support. So stop being so condescending.

I also didn't say I was never supporting them again,I said I wasn't buying weapons ever again until changes are made. I buy plenty of slots and warframes and give away gifts of catalysts all the time so don't you try to shame me for not wanting to support bad decisions. 
They want to cripple future weapon releases? then I won't buy the weapons. It's as easy as that.

Just to be clear so you can understand better,I'm not buying weapons again until changes are made. This means I can still support DE through other avenues like RL merch and non weapons. Obviously there are more things in the game than just guns.
Simply being a statistic for current active players can encourage others to spend money as no one spends money on a dead game which warframe is incredibly far from being. 

I love warframe and i'm not sorry for asking that new weapons remain more useful when released instead of being significantly worse than a variation that has existed in the game for years. As so many have said already,let new weapons and new variations sit at a 1.0 disposition and Or don't separate variations with different dispositions as if they're completely different weapons when released,at least they'd stand a chance of being on par with a variation that has existed in the game for years. At this point,moving to guandao prime from guandao is a bad decision in every way if you intend on getting the most out of it.

All this 0.5 dispo stuff is pretty recent,I don't feel like i'm asking for much when I ask that the 0.5 dispo on new weapons and variation dispositions changes  be reversed. 

Edit: Didn't expect this to turn into a wall of text. My bad.

Edited by wizardeiges
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8 hours ago, Autumnatopoeia said:

shell by shell reload is pressing E and letting synth set or auto reload exilus mod do its thing for a second or two

Well yes, but actually no.
Synth set would be slower, since I practically only ever use Reflex and I am also missing half the set.
Lock and Load is a mod slot not used for something else; for Corinth, I would say at least Broad Eye and Aerial Ace would be better, then band-aiding a problem which didn't need to be there.

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7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Okay I'll give you an example. 1.00 Dispo Kuva Nukor Riven. With it, it makes players think "Why should I even bother to invest other weapon when I can just whip out Kuva Nukor with my super meta riven?". Then other people starts to realize this and everyone and their grandmas uses Nukor and the weapon's usage usage skyrocket. Because DE has the "locked dispo" in place and they are staying committed to it DE has no choice but to nerf the weapon itself in the name of balance. Do you want that system in place? Me? Heck No.

Or if DE let that slide. Future content now revolves around the nukor. With that, it made other weapons even more irrelevant than they already are. You will see more bullcrap mechanic enemies and bosses in the process. 

You're getting confused on what influences weapon usage. Everyone and their grandma uses Nukor anyways, and this is because of how content creators and this community hypes up gear. I was asking for the practical impact on the power ceiling which for a Nukor Riven, even at Neutral, still doesn't affect the weapon performance (or usage) all that much. Most players don't have Riven Mods that drastically increase the power of the weapon. Those rolls are expensive and require luck and/or time.

All you do in creating .5 Disposition weapons is saying "we gave you endgame modding options that aren't worth your time on higher progression items". It's a joke really. DE preaches "endgame" in 2016 on their dev workshop, but actively punished you for using it on good weapons. Also, "super meta riven" is an exaggeration. Good Rivens are the minority, not the majority. At .5 Disposition, there are very few rolls that allow you to replace a normal mod and get a performance increase.

I much rather DE balance weapons and not directly play with your Riven investment.

Scott on Twitter says the next Revise is about #powerfantasy and not strictly nerfing what we have. So why does Disposition have to be anti-power-fantasy and anti-player? We get to put Eclipse, Roar, Shock Trooper, or Xata's Whisper on other Warframes at MR 8, but "endgame" mods are still toyed with and nerfed to punish players for maximizing weapons  that you earn later in the game? What's the point of caring about any new Prime if the "endgame" modding option is never practical for atleast the first 3 months. 

I have a perfect Guandao Riven, and I know for fact it will barely be worth a mod slot on Guandao Prime. It might actually just be worse than Guandao because my Guandao Range will be higher lol.

Edited by Voltage
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50 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I much rather DE balance weapons and not directly play with your Riven investment.

I would rather choose the current system than my favorite weapons got nerfed because some meta slaves go pew pew with their riven mods I do not have. You’re only forcing people into the can of worms that is riven mods. Riven mods are optional and should stay that way.
 

 

53 minutes ago, Voltage said:

What's the point of caring about any new Prime if the "endgame" modding option is never practical for atleast the first 3 months. 

Prime Weapons already come with a nice stat increase and already power creeped normal variants. YOU may not care, but others will. 

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16 hours ago, (NSW)MeteorMashii said:

if every weapon had equal riven disposition, that would make certain weapons obsolete... it's just a lack of oversight 

Rivens don't make obsolete weapons better. Some weapons have completely bad stats, and some of them are intentionally low in stats due to getting them early in the game. Others have poor usability. Rivens are based on the weapons stats, weapons with bad stats means the Rivens will just always be garbage on them. The only time a Riven impacts a choice between two weapons are when their stats are more or less the same. However, in these cases, the one with the better Riven makes the other option "obsolete" too.

Usability and stats of a weapon matter more than Rivens do for how good they are. There's a reason why when DE nerfs highly used weapon they don't only target their stats, but they target their usability, which is something a Riven can never fix if it's bad enough.

Either way, Rivens are already "balanced" in a flawed way, a weapon could be mediocre but end up with a subpar riven purely because people are using the weapon, even if they aren't using a riven. 

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21 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I would rather choose the current system than my favorite weapons got nerfed because some meta slaves go pew pew with their riven mods I do not have. You’re only forcing people into the can of worms that is riven mods. Riven mods are optional and should stay that way.

When did I ask for weapons to be balanced around Riven Mods? Weapon balance occurring in place of this Disposition system would address powercreep on a more direct level instead of just making players feel bad without changing the weapon selection meta.

These mods are still optional, but the way they are tuned is nonsensical, has never worked in the last 4 years, and does nothing but make invested players feel bad. Weapons being overused are again, a symptom of content creators, YouTube, Twitch, and community hype. Riven Mods aren't what make Kronen Prime, Synoid Simulor, Telos Boltace, Tonkor, Kuva Nukor, Kuva Bramma, Catchmoon, or any other weapon popular over the years.

21 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Prime Weapons already come with a nice stat increase and already power creeped normal variants. YOU may not care, but others will. 

Yes, but DE is also setting players up for failure. Everyone in trade chat before a Prime Access is buying weapon Rivens for what is being primed only to end up with a mod that really isn't worth a slot. Not only that, but the separate dispositions make every single Prime weapon without exception to release since the separate Disposition access uninteresting to any player who is serious about being invested in Rivens. The Disposition by design only creates player headache and extra maintenance for DE.

This system proves once again (and every 90 days) that it accomplishes nothing positive for the game.

Edited by Voltage
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15 часов назад, (PS4)Madurai-Prime сказал:

The F for player time investment comes from having the full knowledge that dispositions will change, yet deciding in your own mind to get upset about something you know is happening. 

It's more of an F to player common sense.

If you have 4 to 6 forma in a Kronen, your investment is still intact. 

Well, F to the game then, cause for alot of players there is not ALOT to do in late game...they farmed everything they wanted and now riven system is the only thing that left...but this system is a trap and a scam. ANd thats sad, dont defend it, we need ashame this and not defend it

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STOP NERFING IT. DISPOSITION SHOULD BE CAPPED AT 1.0. STOP WASTING OUT TIME. STOP THIS. YOU ARE KILLING VETERANS THAT RUN KUVA. I'm super mad becasue this shows your disconnection from the playerbase and you still ignore it. Rivne market is dead becasuse you are nerfing everything and new weapons are at 0.5 and buffs every 3 months are to slow. Mad Grumpy Cat GIF by MOODMAN

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