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October 2020 Riven Disposition Update Preview


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Am 17.10.2020 um 21:37 schrieb (PS4)Madurai-Prime:

You need to shame people that don't have self control and think they need expensive, top-class rivens to play a game. You need to shame people silly enough to spend large amounts of money or plat on single riven. 

The riven system is great for me because I have that common sense and use rivens that I naturally acquire through regular gameplay. 

I recently unveiled a Harpak riven which happens to have a higher dispo. I put forma in it and had fun using in a relic Mot for an hour. 

This. People that use terms like "can of worms" or "toxic riven mafia", etc. act, as if someone is putting a gun at their heads to force them to buy a riven for 3000 Pl... If someone is willing to pay that much, it's their own decision and therefore their own responsibility. Unfortunately, responsibility is rarely seen nowadays, when it's so much easier to blame someone else for your own bad decisions, one of the biggest problems in modern society imo...

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On 2020-10-17 at 9:36 PM, maaleru said:

Catchmoon (primary): 0.75->0.9

I like it! although, judging by the reviews, only I like the primary catchmoon -_-.

I wouldn't be surprised, if all primery kitgun rivens end up around 1.0 in the next few months where they could have been from the getgo, if DE had not introduced this unwarrented 0.5 starter disposition (which would not have been "necessary" in the first place, if someone had tested weapons like Catchmoon or Bramma for 5 min in game before releasing them)...

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I disagree with reaper prime taking such a big hit. It was just fine at 1.0. seriously, how is gram prime still higher than reaper?

Dragon nikana down to 1.15 and that's it? Does it make any sense that nikana is worse them dragon nikana AND has a lower disposition?

I knew kronen was going to get hit, gram too. But dragon nikana is really annoying me. That's the only one anyone uses. 

At least gaze primary got buffed. I saw that coming and to be honest it should be at about 1.1 or so. 

 

Looks like reaper build which costed a total of about 2500p is going in the closet.

 

 

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You know what sucks - DE came to the point where nobody can be sure in their riven for next 3 month. 

i think we need at least something like "after ANY nerf to a dispo - same riven cant be nerfed again in next 18 months" or so. So they wont murder again and again same weapons for  years. ANd people could have fun for like 1.5 year at least, after one nerf.

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15 minutes ago, HollowExistence said:

remove rivens, and stop these nonsense- popularity ranking adjustments. cheers.

No. I like rivens.

Yes, the dispo system could use a lot of improvement. Quad damage from a high dispo god roll isn't even enough to make a lot of weapons relevant, whether due to small numbers or poor duty cycles. The power whales still pay thousands for 0.5 dispo meta rivens that are marginally stronger than Hammer Shot or Gladiator Might. Should dispo scale more dramatically? Should rivens uniquely work as additive buffs instead of the usual multiplicative?

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10 hours ago, Sojufueled said:

Is the Cortege's useage low because it's weak, or just nobody can get the damn parts to drop?

It's not weak. It's just OK.

Mausolon being better and instantly accessible just overshadows Cortege completely.

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The day the 2 new prime weapons were announced the traders started buying riven mods cheap offering less than 50p and players we're selling for 200p 250p i even saw a 500p sales tag for the melee, For riven dispo 1 (0.5). A dispo that every build guide says avoid its garbage stats don't use. So why the rush to corner the market the answers dumb (because i want a riven). it cannot be for the stats the buffs so low most ordinary mods are better.

Were still getting the melee mod disposition changes from melee rework. Kronnen, and plague weapons were expected to go to the lowest disposition so why are players shocked that this is happening. For the smart guy that says what about the paracsis i'm with you 1 weapon is not players choice but game design for usage stats this needs addressing, same as other quest weapons.

The kuva nukor is already said to be on the nerf watch list DE will nerf the disposition and if it usage is still to high nerf the weapon its self.  Find another way or get it nerfed. That was DE's own warning on the subject of over uses.

Overall i like them starting from a low disposition its better than investing and losing because somethings to strong ie. Brahma and catchmoon and getting nerfed to the ground. Very rarely do de buff things they label as to strong/ over used. We would be moaning now if the latest batch of weapon rivens were being nerfed. I think each version of a weapon should be looked at on its own merits. The gram,, gram prime is a good example of why this should be the case, a poor normal version with maxed disposition, then a buffed prime version that had overpowering rivens this was one reason they split disposition in the first place then we had the brahma so now we are sensible base on release. De should now see its the weapon not the riven and fix problems faster. 

 As for the comments in this thread but the base version is buffed up to the same power as the prime version thats what balance and equal choice meant. Some players already said this would happen and were told the prime will always be better.

 I do agree the system needs work its terrible. But what other than our own choices is de supposed to use to balance the weapons. k drives are all equal in stats, i certainly Wouldn't want that for weapons it would ruin warframes appeal for mods and builds. I'm not a great fan of the rng in the riven system nore do i believe there the best way to fix bad stats on weapon design. De really needs to look a fixing weak weapons not Band-Aid rivens but it is a source of grind/player time investment. Good/fun/strong weapons will always be top of usage tables, and i don't envy the devs trying to balance the nightmare of our choices. Lots of voices not all sings the right notes, even if its the same song! 

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On 2020-10-17 at 3:37 PM, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

You need to shame people that don't have self control and think they need expensive, top-class rivens to play a game. You need to shame people silly enough to spend large amounts of money or plat on single riven. 

Yeah. Definitely. Shame people for spending plat in your free to play game. Shame.

You know who we should shame? Forum clowns.

Shame.

I've never spent more than 100 plat on a riven because i think its ludicrous, but having whales buy plat to spend on "silly things" like cosmetics and crazy rolled rivens means that I as a free to play player, can continue to play for free.

Shame.

Edited by Skaleek
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11 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah. Definitely. Shame people for spending plat in your free to play game. Shame.

You know who we should shame? Forum clowns.

Shame.

I've never spent more than 100 plat on a riven because i think its ludicrous, but having whales buy plat to spend on "silly things" like cosmetics and crazy rolled rivens means that I as a free to play player, can continue to play for free.

Shame.

Since you're missing context and getting hung up in the word "shame", I'll provide said context for you. 

I was responding to this person: 

"Well, F to the game then, cause for alot of players there is not ALOT to do in late game...they farmed everything they wanted and now riven system is the only thing that left...but this system is a trap and a scam. ANd thats sad, dont defend it, we need ashame this and not defend it"

I don't need to "ashame" this system and choose his side just because he tells me to. I'll defend whatever I want, so deal with it. Like I said, learn to use weapons with higher dispos and stop trying to chase rubico/kronen/kuva nukor rivens. That's not the systems problem, that's a "you" problem. 

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52 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I'll defend whatever I want, so deal with it.

On 2020-10-17 at 3:37 PM, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

You need to shame people that don't have self control and think they need expensive, top-class rivens to play a game. You need to shame people silly enough to spend large amounts of money or plat on single riven. 

de·fend: speak or write in favor of (an action or person); attempt to justify.

attack: criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly.

You're actually "attacking" anyone who buys expensive rivens, because your point of view differs from theirs. Worse still, you're actually inciting others to attack these individuals as well.

If you want an example of a "defense" i would say: "I'm okay with rivens how they are because it lets whales funnel their platinum into something that has no effect on me whatsoever"

Shame.

Edited by Skaleek
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2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

de·fend: speak or write in favor of (an action or person); attempt to justify.

attack: criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly.

You're actually "attacking" anyone who buys expensive rivens, because your point of view differs from theirs. Worse still, you're actually inciting others to attack these individuals as well.

If you want an example of a "defense" i would say: "I'm okay with rivens how they are because it lets whales funnel their platinum into something that has no effect on me whatsoever"

Shame.

Thanks that's a better way to put it, thanks for helping me out with that. Sorry I couldn't afford college, shame on me for not wanting to go into debt or not being smart enough. 

You'll live.

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While I am upset about reaper prime, at least my next favorite melee is untouched. And I reserve the right to keep that private lest it be nerfed.

Anyone have a cc cd slash neg impact dehtat riven for sale? Mine has neg combo count 8(

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18 hours ago, HollowExistence said:

remove rivens, and stop these nonsense- popularity ranking adjustments. cheers.

whitney houston agree GIF

From someone with around 130 very nice rivens. They need to go away. It has been a stupid cash-grab since day one and it has completely screwed the ingame economy. DE is pretty proud of their pseudo-gambling mechanic, however. So I doubt we'll see them go anytime soon.

Edited by Leqesai
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5 hours ago, Leqesai said:

From someone with around 130 very nice rivens. They need to go away. It has been a stupid cash-grab since day one and it has completely screwed the ingame economy. DE is pretty proud of their pseudo-gambling mechanic, however. So I doubt we'll see them go anytime soon.

How would the game be better for you without rivens? They are never mandatory, anywhere. You lose nothing from avoiding the riven system. Dissolve your rivens and pretend they never existed then, why ruin it for those who enjoy how rivens enrich the build system, beyond just unga bunga god rolls. I also happen to really like the pseudo-gambling part, since I can get my gambling thrills and win pseudo-money without ever risking losing real money. The youtube lemming who drops a thousand plat on a mediocre riven for the overrated Kronen, that's on them, not the existence of rivens.

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On 2020-10-16 at 10:38 PM, Voltage said:

Can we just remove Disposition? These arbitrary changes don't make Kronen Prime less compelling than a Telos Boltace. It would be way easier on DE and more fun and consistent for players if every weapon was a Neutral Disposition.

Xoris is a good example of the fundamental issue with Disposition. Glaive Prime for example has better stats, and Xoris still has the worst Disposition.

In 2016 you called these an "endgame modding option", but your actions punish players for using "endgame" mods on the higher end weapons (mostly Primes and variants with good stats). I don't understand how these can be "endgame" when you're punished for using them as such. If MR 8 can have access to Helminth that allows Roar's final damage multiplier to apply to any Warframe, then an "endgame" mod shouldn't be nerfed to the point where it's not even worth slotting. Please consider changes to make this system feel better to use. It doesn't have to be powercreep. You can make every Disposition ~1.00 and see the same weapon usage stats with a playerbase much more likely to sink their teeth into Rivens and feel better about their investment.

I want to add a couple of points to this otherwise excellent argument: the vast majority do not care about "the meta". They don't read up on it, build their loadouts according to the lastest video guides, and even if they are aware of it, don't pick any of their equipment based on that. (Disclosure: I am the the latter category).

Instead, people choose weapons for a variety of hard and soft reasons. If it deals decent damage from their own testing, if it feels good, looks good, sounds good, if certain mod options are particularly compelling (e.g. stances can make or break a melee weapon), the weapon has a unique effect that they like, then people will use it.

Most people don't swap to a different weapon when the riven disposition of on of their favourites gets nerfed. They just eat the nerf and keep using it, and at worst replace the riven with a regular mod if that turns out to be more useful.

In my view disposition should be removed altogether, and all rivens be set to the net power of a primed mod with fixed stat packages instead of a randomized range of values (i.e. you roll to get a certain combination of stats, but the values of those stats will be fixed predefined value that is always the same).

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