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October 2020 Riven Disposition Update Preview


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11 minutes ago, Cmdr-A said:

Were the stats even updated in game yet? All the rivens I have that are on that list haven't even been updated yet. They match the same exact stats as before. Whenever a disposition changes the stats of the rivens change if its a singular weapon riven say like the paracesis or the shedu or zenistar, etc none of those rivens stats changed at all.

There was a problem and the disposition update didn't take place. A hotfix will apply it.

 

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so another slap to the face of the community:
Oh, so you just invested hours to obtain an rng based mod for one of your weapon - that you had to forma to use, coz its 18 cap usage - it would be a shame if we nerfed that piece of poop to the level that you are better with a common mod instead.

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These Riven dispo changes are getting really REALLY old. 

A Mausolon Riven is still too worthless to slot.

God forbid we ENJOY using a weapon

Don't even get me started on how you need to roll something 400+ times to get a "decent" roll. Forget getting a roll you want.

They didn't even just nerf all of my favorite melee weapons, they somehow managed to nerf ones I was CONSIDERING starting to use.

On 2020-10-16 at 9:12 PM, exturkconner said:

Considering it's best in class it should be lowest dispo. 

Yeah, but .5 is ridiculous. You cant even use a riven for it. If a riven is unusable, take it out of circulation.

People need to stop defending this entire flawed riven system.

On 2020-10-17 at 1:34 AM, AnthonyFamo said:

Paracesis didn't deserve it :(

Totally. Who even uses it?

None of this makes any sense.

On 2020-10-17 at 4:25 PM, Melanholic7 said:

Well, for alot of players there is not ALOT to do in late game...they farmed everything they wanted and now riven system is the only thing that left...but this system is a scam. ANd thats sad, dont defend it, we need ashame this and not defend it

Well said. But no one is talking about the real problem and why its such a shame. It's that the idea of Rivens is actually really good one with lots of potential. Theres nothing worse than a good idea wasted. The largest problem is how hard it is to get a good roll on a Riven. Thats why people are so upset and passionate about all this - we've wasted hours and hours of our lives.

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I'm new to Warframe, so forgive my confusion, but why would existing Rivens change?

Shouldn't Rivens that already exist in the system be static? If they are acquired or rolled after a balance change then they should reflect the new values. 

Eventually old "grandfathered" Rivens will be fewer and fewer as more and more people hoard them away in their inventory forever.

This seems to make the whole Riven system sort of a scam.

 

Also, why is the Riven Disposition rating on weapons a series of 5 dots, yet here you are describing them on a scale of 0.5 to 1.5 in increments as small as 0.05. 

5 dots does not adequately relay information on a disposition - why not just show the number???

Edited by (PS4)Overtkill21
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On 2020-10-27 at 8:53 PM, parttimeparty said:

These Riven dispo changes are getting really REALLY old. 

A Mausolon Riven is still too worthless to slot.

God forbid we ENJOY using a weapon

Don't even get me started on how you need to roll something 400+ times to get a "decent" roll. Forget getting a roll you want.

They didn't even just nerf all of my favorite melee weapons, they somehow managed to nerf ones I was CONSIDERING starting to use.

While I agree with some of what you've said. I think "God forbit we enjoy..." Is a little dramatic.

If you require a riven to enjoy a weapon then maybe you're playing the game wrong. Rivens were never designed to make excellent weapons more overpowered.

hate my life i give up GIF

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On 2020-10-27 at 9:37 PM, (PS4)Overtkill21 said:

I'm new to Warframe, so forgive my confusion, but why would existing Rivens change?

Shouldn't Rivens that already exist in the system be static? If they are acquired or rolled after a balance change then they should reflect the new values. 

Eventually old "grandfathered" Rivens will be fewer and fewer as more and more people hoard them away in their inventory forever.

This seems to make the whole Riven system sort of a scam.

 

Also, why is the Riven Disposition rating on weapons a series of 5 dots, yet here you are describing them on a scale of 0.5 to 1.5 in increments as small as 0.05. 

5 dots does not adequately relay information on a disposition - why not just show the number???

Rivens are a constantly changing game mechanic that DE put into the game to help boost the power of less popular weapons. 

Riven power levels change whenever a new prime frame is released (every 3-4 months).

The disposition changes were thought to be directly representative of a weapon's popularity but it looks more and more like the changes are made arbitrarily.

Thats why you don't see a number of weapons in this round of changes.

On 2020-10-27 at 9:58 PM, Kim-Pine said:

Are you kidding me -_-, no fun allowed.

It is one of the best melee weapons in the game. Every round of disposition changes is going to see a -0.5 change for quite some time...

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38 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

While I agree with some of what you've said. I think "God forbit we enjoy..." Is a little dramatic.

If you require a riven to enjoy a weapon then maybe you're playing the game wrong. Rivens were never designed to make excellent weapons more overpowered.

hate my life i give up GIF

Rivens weren't designed to have the base variant out perform the prime variant either, yet here we are.

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On 2020-10-16 at 8:33 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

Yesterday, we released the Nights of Naberus update across all console platforms. Unfortunately, this update accidentally featured some Riven disposition changes that were scheduled to be released with Nezha Prime Access. We sincerely apologize for the unexpected tricks and treats!

These changes have since been removed from all consoles, but in the interest of transparency, we wanted to share the exact changes you can expect when this update returns to all platforms. All of the trends explained in our last Riven workshop still hold true - there are fewer gun reductions than ever, and melees are still in a state of flux. Archgun Rivens are also being added to the mix from this point forward!

Without further ado, numbers are as follows:

PRIMARY:

  Revelar contenido oculto

Acceltra: 0.65->0.6

Arca Plasmor: 0.65->0.7

Amprex: 0.7->0.75

Catchmoon (primary): 0.75->0.9

Corinth: 1.05->1.1

Gaze (primary): 0.65->0.85

Kuva Bramma: 0.65->0.6

Kuva Drakgoon: 1.05->1.1

Panthera Prime: 0.5->0.85

Rattleguts (primary): 0.6->0.8

Shedu: 0.85->0.8

Stahlta: 0.7->0.8

Tigris: 1->1.1
Sancti Tigris: 0.85->0.9

Tombfinger (primary): 0.6->0.75

Trumna: 0.5->0.55


SECONDARY:

  Revelar contenido oculto

Akbolto: 1.2->1.25
Telos Akbolto: 1.15->1.2
Akbolto Prime: 1.05->1.1

Akjagara: 0.95->1

Akstilletto: 0.8->0.9

Kuva Nukor: 0.65->0.5

Pyrana: 0.8->0.9

Sepulcrum: 0.5->0.75

Staticor: 0.53->0.6

Velox: 0.8->1

Zymos: 0.5->0.75


MELEE:

  Ocultar contenido

Ack & Brunt: 1.25->1.35

Arca Titron: 1.2->1.25

Atterax: 0.9->0.95

Boltace: 1.2->1.25
Telos Boltace: 1->1.05

Broken Scepter: 1.35->1.4

Broken War: 1.05->1.1

Cassowar: 1.25->1.3

Cobra & Crane: 1.25->1.3

Dark Dagger: 0.9->1.1
Rakta Dark Dagger: 0.8->0.95

Dehtat: 1.15->1.2

Dex Dakra: 1.3->1.35

Dragon Nikana: 1.2->1.15

Dual Kamas: 1.15->1.25
Dual Kamas Prime: 1.05->1.15

Dual Keres: 1.2->1.1

Endura: 1.3->1.4

Falcor: 1.25->1.3

Fragor: 1.15->1.2

Galatine: 0.85->0.95
Galatine Prime: 0.65->0.7

Galvacord: 1.25->1.3

Gram Prime: 1.05->0.9

Gunsen: 1.25->1.3

Hate: 1.2->1.1

Heliocor: 1.25->1.3
Synoid Heliocor: 1.2->1.25

Hirudo: 0.95->1.05

Jat Kittag: 1.15->1.25

Karyst Prime: 0.5->0.75

Keratinos: 0.5->0.7

Korrudo: 1.25->1.3

Kreska: 1.25->1.3

Kronen Prime: 1.05->0.85

Kronsh: 1.25->1.3

Ceti Lacera: 1.05->1.1

Lecta: 1->1.15
Secura Lecta: 0.9->1

Lesion: 0.65->0.7

Magistar: 1.3->1.35
Sancti Magistar: 1.2->1.25

Masseter: 1.15->1.2

Nikana: 0.8->0.9
Nikana Prime: 0.5->0.6

Prisma Obex: 1.2->1.25

Ooltha: 1.15->1.2

Orthos: 0.85->0.95

Orvius: 1.3->1.35

Paracesis: 0.7->0.6

Pathocyst: 1.25->1.3

Plague Kripath: 0.65->0.6

Pupacyst: 1.25->1.3

Quassus: 0.5->0.75

Rabvee: 1.2->1.25

Reaper Prime: 1->0.85

Redeemer: 1.17->1
Redeemer Prime: 0.8->0.65

Scindo: 1.3->1.35

Sepfahn: 0.75->0.7

Sydon: 1.15->1.25
Vaykor Sydon: 1.1->1.2

Twin Krohkur: 1.25->1.2

Venka: 0.9->1

War: 0.9->0.95

Wolf Sledge: 1.2->1.25

Xoris: 0.5->0.65

Zenistar: 0.95->1.05


ARCHGUNS:

  Revelar contenido oculto

Cortege: 0.5->0.7

Corvas: 1.05->1.1

Dual Decurion: 1.25->1.3

Fluctus: 0.9->1

Grattler: 0.95->1

Imperator: 0.85->1

Larkspur: 0.8->0.85

Phaedra: 1.15->1.2

Velocitus: 1.05->1.1

Thanks everyone - expect these changes to go live on all platforms when Nezha Prime arrives in the near future!

I honestly don't know where you guys take the inspiration from to nerf some rivens more than others and what things to buff. 

For example the Hate nerf... i haven't seen the hate in an actual mission in ages(no jk in literal years i haven't seen a player use it) and you guys nerfing it means is among the most used(or most owned rivens? )  and the reaper prime even less so.

Not to mention the changes of 0.05 points, that are... to put it lightly a waste of time to even read over and if the owner of one of this mods didn't write down the actual nrs on his/her riven won't even notice(i have a few of this and i wouldn't notice) ... so the question becomes, why do an insignificant change? to seem like more things are happening ? false sense of momentum seeing more lines of text ? filler content to the next level ? 

Honestly i believe you guys get youtube recommendations on creator videos and you nerf based on that. Or the data you log is totally wrong (crisisim aside... probably the real reason here).

The fact that you nerf unused weapons and buf to high heaven the zenistar(that probably won't be used until you revert the disc thing ...) is enough reason/warning to not invest into buying rivens. 

 

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so the only weaps i generally even bring or use have had a(nother) reduction in riven stats.. that is sad.

what's the point of endgame gear if it isn't quite significantly better than everything else? :< haven't seen how much difference the changes have made to gameplay but i imagine it might not be great.. like in steel path missions it's barely even an option to use a weapon as it is- nothing is really strong enough, yet the steel path enemies are supposed to be our "equals" in terms of level/strength? NQR methinks- our rivens should make the difference between not being as strong as them, and being as strong or stronger than them.

Edited by outseeker
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On 2020-10-17 at 7:17 AM, xXMadneXDXx said:

I didn´t know reaper prime was popular :c

i might know why it got nerfed
though i didn't know it was popular at all and am still sad about the nerf
i will have to see if a good riven for it can still exist or not with the new stats

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4 hours ago, parttimeparty said:

Yeah, but .5 is ridiculous. You cant even use a riven for it. If a riven is unusable, take it out of circulation.

People need to stop defending this entire flawed riven system.

Or, and hear me out, people should make peace with the Riven system being opt-in and explicitly advertised as being subject to constant nerfs every 3 months.

Crazy idea, I know. It's almost as crazy as not getting mad at an alligator that bit you when you willingly placed your hand in its mouth.

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13 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Or, and hear me out, people should make peace with the Riven system being opt-in and explicitly advertised as being subject to constant nerfs every 3 months.

Crazy idea, I know. It's almost as crazy as not getting mad at an alligator that bit you when you willingly placed your hand in its mouth.

For me, and many other players, Rivens are our only endgame.

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1 hour ago, parttimeparty said:

For me, and many other players, Rivens are our only endgame.

I understand that. I'm hitting MR30 with Nezha and have exhausted every single drop of content out of the game from Arcanes to focus trees to RJ intrinsics. But Rivens are not the answer. Not when the design goal is to help weapons that have been powercrept out of the game. The implementation is flawed, but that's the guiding principle. It's anti-progress by design.

There is no endgame, and DE won't make one. They had a chance with The Steel Path and Arbitrations before it, but they just can't commit to content that excludes new players by design. Forcing yourself to find something to aim towards only delays the inevitable, which is burn out.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Riven Disposition should not go below a point where a standard mod like primed pressure point or prime elemental mod would provide better overall DPS.

That would kill the riven.

Owners of riven should still be rewarded for having a riven, even if all the hard work only amounts to +20% DPS over non-riven builds.

Thus there is a need to have a disposition floor for rivens at close to or slightly below 1.

 

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

The implementation is flawed, but that's the guiding principle.

Then stop trying to make people shut up about it if it's flawed and point out the mistakes instead of taking a way around.

People complain, because they grinded, won in a slot machine and beat rng multiple times and their mod still degrades. It would be fair if rolling investment didn't exist.
Right now? The players pay for buffing trash weapons and when they do it to (not necessarily good) POPULAR weapons, they straight get punished for dumping resources into that mod.

Edited by sitfesz
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On 2020-10-28 at 4:10 AM, sitfesz said:

Then stop trying to make people shut up about it if it's flawed and point out the mistakes instead of taking a way around.

People complain, because they grinded, won in a slot machine and beat rng multiple times and their mod still degrades. It would be fair if rolling investment didn't exist.
Right now? The players pay for buffing trash weapons and when they do it to (not necessarily good) POPULAR weapons, they straight get punished for dumping resources into that mod.

Thank you!

My whole point is that its bad enough the return on your investment of time to farm Kuva is already so low (good luck getting a roll you want).

But making your riven worse than mods you already own, with no warning, is a just wrong.

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7 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Then stop trying to make people shut up about it if it's flawed and point out the mistakes instead of taking a way around.

People complain, because they grinded, won in a slot machine and beat rng multiple times and their mod still degrades. It would be fair if rolling investment didn't exist.
Right now? The players pay for buffing trash weapons and when they do it to (not necessarily good) POPULAR weapons, they straight get punished for dumping resources into that mod.

I don't think what you're saying is true for most of the complainers. If you go back all the way to late 2018 when this started, you'll notice people rarely comment about the buffs that were made in general despite the number of buffs being often significantly higher than the number or nerfs. They also don't seem to care when very bad weapons get nerfed.

They only care when weapons that ae good by default get a disposition nerf.

There's also the suggestion of capping disposition at 1 on the lowest end being extremely popular in this thread and past threads, which is a suggestion that will only benefit higher-tier weapons (Because weak weapons are already past 1) while essentially negating the purpose of Rivens. There's even a guy here complaining about the Kuva Nukor (A weapon so broken that is likely on DE's radar for a base stats nerf) getting a disposition nerf. That speaks for itself.

That alone hints at those players having misguided expectations at best, and that's on them. How much they grinded is irrelevant when they grinded out of a misguided expectation that goes against the core principle of what Rivens are supposed to be.

5 hours ago, parttimeparty said:

its bad enough the return on your investment of time to farm Kuva is already so low (good luck getting a roll you want).

So you willingly participate in an opt-in system and then feel cheated when the rules of the system apply to you? If you feel like your time investment should negate your willful choice then there's no reason to take this further as it's clear you want to have your cake and eat it too.

5 hours ago, parttimeparty said:

But making your riven worse than mods you already own, with no warning, is a huge FU.

This is done on schedule every 3 months with every new Prime release and has been the case since late 2018. All Rivens are subject to nefs.

Edited by Jarriaga
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9 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

But Rivens are not the answer.

They are a decent enough answer for many players. Rivens have definitely extended the life of this game for me.

The riven system of course could still be much better, so I support its continued improvement.

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7 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

They are a decent enough answer for many players. Rivens have definitely extended the life of this game for me.

The riven system of course could still be much better, so I support its continued improvement.

How are you defining "continued improvement" though? From the perspective of what DE set out to do (Help weaker/older weapons, even if at the expense of good/great weapons) or from the perspective of those complaining here (Make good/great weapons even better even if at the expense of weak/old weapons)? Because those two things are diametrically opposed in both concept and execution.

Edited by Jarriaga
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15 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

How are you defining "continued improvement" though?

Reform, not revolution. Rivens don't need to be deleted or completely reworked. Maybe dispo should scale more dramatically, or certain stats should be additive instead of multiplicative, but no amount of messing with the riven system is going to solve weapon balance issues caused by disparities of crit vs status, ST vs AoE, or guns vs melee. The upcoming status balance pass will hopefully make a lot of bad weapons and bad riven rolls much better.

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