Your opinion on lore and story.

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

I have never been much into the lore of games and although i like stories and appreciate when they are well done i dont care much about them anymore , the only lore i've been invested in is Dark souls and about stories i liked cod BO1 and BO2 story, then i stopped caring about the story in games after some time. So i can't really give my opinion on how good or bad is the warframe story and lore, since i forgot almost everything from the 'story' and lore of warframe, the lore i kind of like it but i'm not going out of my way just to check it. In the end i play games just for the gameplay and to have fun, if i wanted a good story i'd read a book, not because there aren't good stories in videogames but because i'd rather do it at my own pace and more silently.

What's your opinion on the lore and story of warframe? 

 

[Kaotyke]

Just a sec, I need to do this as a preemptive strike this.

WARFRAME HAS A STORY?! PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH! HUEHHEUEHUEHEUHE! HIHIHIHIEHIHEHEHHOHOHOHOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! HEHEHEHEHEHHHGHGADVSBACkgB NEKHAFV ACUJKGHFYACUNXDUIB AGNUYBGCFHAXEGHNaaaaaan! nnnnnnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 

 

There, now I can actually be constructive.

Its a bit like Dark Souls.

Some things are directly told to you and the rest you have to piece togheter. Which is why later comers have difficulty grasp´ping it at first glance.

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

hace 14 minutos, Kaotyke dijo:

Just a sec, I need to do this as a preemptive strike this.

WARFRAME HAS A STORY?! PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH! HUEHHEUEHUEHEUHE! HIHIHIHIEHIHEHEHHOHOHOHOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! HEHEHEHEHEHHHGHGADVSBACkgB NEKHAFV ACUJKGHFYACUNXDUIB AGNUYBGCFHAXEGHNaaaaaan! nnnnnnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 

 

There, now I can actually be constructive.

Its a bit like Dark Souls.

Some things are directly told to you and the rest you have to piece togheter. Which is why later comers have difficulty grasp´ping it at first glance.

Didn't know how i should call it, i was thinking of another word but couldn't remember what the word is.

I'll leave the text as it is.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

The only problem I currently have is the order of events, there's some operations that have main story behind them and you can't play them anymore. So some stuff like Alad getting infected then cured is just messy right now.

[Loza03]

Personally, I think that DE's barking up the wrong tree with the Dark Souls 'drip feed lore all over the place' strategy. Not only have they kind of screwed up the scale (Dark Souls has lore everywhere, and even lesser examples like Destiny still find every avenue they can to squeeze it in), but it's just clearly not what DE are good at. The lore, quite frankly, is messy, disorganised, and I'm not entirely certain they have a lore bible to keep it all together in. And since the lore is disorganised and not 100% consistent, the main appeal of this approach (putting it together yourself) falls apart. If you can't trust the lore to be consistent, then you can't put faith in your theories.

The story on the other hand? When DE's writing department sits down and writes a narrative... they sit down and write a god damn Narrative. Naberus just recently is a good example - it's dense, it's thematic, it fits the theming of the story, character telling it and the context in which it's told... it's goooooood. Leverian stories, the Second Dream, the War Within - DE's writing department is really good at just old fashioned, straight up narratives. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. DE should play to their strengths! People can forgive spotty lore and backstory if it's mere flavour to the beauty that is presented to them.

[Luciole77]

too much hiatus between all lore.

[kevoisvevo]

*looks around* where is the lore vaati?

[sitfesz]

- You are a killing machine of a supermodern technology, which got abandoned for years, but still overpowered to the tech in your envinronment
Nice
- You take guidance and orders from the first person you see
Well ok
- You are a kid
No
- You have mommy issues
Wait
- You take orders now from your ships operation system
What

Sorry I couldn't really cope with warframes lore, so this is the best I could do. There were a few twists and interesting stuff like Ordan Karris, but not really memorable to me overall.

[OniDax]

I think it's pretty bad. Poorly organized, very inconsistent and contradictory, and clearly something DE isn't passionate about  given how random, inconsistent, shallow, and contradictory it is. They clearly don't care about story the way Bungie or even Infinity Ward cares about story. DE's handling of Warframe's story is the worst of the games I've played (yes, that includes The Second Dream), and I've played all the COD Modern Warfare games, several Assassin's Creed games, Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time, most of the Ghost Recon games, singleplayer and multiplayer Star Wars games, Medal of Honor games, Battlefield games, superhero games, the list goes on.

[Aldain]

Lore is not a replacement for story in any way shape or form.

I never understood the appeal of "Here's a thousand 2-3 sentence descriptions and nothing else" story writing.

 

[Loza03]

8 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Lore is not a replacement for story in any way shape or form.

I never understood the appeal of "Here's a thousand 2-3 sentence descriptions and nothing else" story writing.

 

When done well, it effectively gives the world a sense of grandiose scale, and history. The idea being that you're finding what happened to this place, not simply being told, and it leaves room for your imagination to fill the gaps which is effectively a good writers jackpot - a readers own imagination is almost always more vivid than the most articulate text or most vibrant imagery.

When done well, of course, is the operative term, and this takes a great deal of skill to pull off. And since, when done well, this barely needs any words, that should indicate what your average attempt looks like.

[OniDax]

On 2020-10-16 at 11:00 PM, Aldain said:

Lore is not a replacement for story in any way shape or form.

I never understood the appeal of "Here's a thousand 2-3 sentence descriptions and nothing else" story writing.

 

 

On 2020-10-16 at 11:09 PM, Loza03 said:

When done well, it effectively gives the world a sense of grandiose scale, and history. The idea being that you're finding what happened to this place, not simply being told, and it leaves room for your imagination to fill the gaps which is effectively a good writers jackpot - a readers own imagination is almost always more vivid than the most articulate text or most vibrant imagery.

When done well, of course, is the operative term, and this takes a great deal of skill to pull off. And since, when done well, this barely needs any words, that should indicate what your average attempt looks like.

I agree. Description lore is great when it supplements an already great narrative. However, imo, Warframe's narrative is terribly written, extremely unorganized, and awfully contradictory, and it's description lore is just as bad, as it doesn't expand on the narrative. DE's storytelling is like getting drunk and throwing half-thought-out ideas at the wall and seeing what's the quirkiest, most random idea that sticks to it. Quite frankly, I think DE is bad at storytelling and it would do them a world of good to hire an actual writer who cares about lore, who will take over all story-writing duties, and who will work to rewrite Warframe's story. DE wants to talk about a true new player experience? Well, a complete rewriting and reorganization of Warframe's story, and restructuring missions, content, and the progression system to fit with that story, would do a world of good for the game. Well, that and reworking the core gameplay experience (gunplay, melee gameplay, movement animations, sound design, and enemy behavior).

[(PSN)Yggranya]

Ah, dark souls, where some people take their best guess, make a video about it, and everyone who watches it recites it like gospel. Your best guess is still just a guess(i really wish it is YOUR guess). If you enjoy that, then more power to you.

I would rather have even a lick of consistency, because the kind of "writing" that dark souls/warframe/japanese crap in general has is just so easy to retcon anything and everything at any time and it won't change anything, because nothing was clear anyway. "Writing" trash like that is as easy as breathing.

[AdunSaveMe]

4 hours ago, (XB1)BRUHck Obama said:

What's your opinion on the lore and story of warframe? 

It's all over the place, but what's there is interesting.

It is not like Dark Souls.

[Electropuncher]

Oh, we're actually going here today? Okay. *long, dramatic gasp* Because somehow it wasn't mentioned, this topic is spoilerific. Maybe stop reading. Not just this thread, but everything. Delete your literacy files.

Warframe's story's bones aren't terrible. We're the fourth, semi-neutral faction in a three-way war. Our leader favors balance, while protecting the innocent. That's fine. When I started playing in 2013, that's all we had. Lotus was even presented as an AI. We had the Grineer, brainless clones of clones of clones, who were focused on consuming. You had the Corpus, ultracapitalists focused on exploiting labor and resources to their absolute limit and consuming. You had the Infested, mutated zombies who wanted to consume everything. ...Lotta consuming. The Orokin empire was this bizarre, Roman-esque star empire that collapse and left a lot of gold and white plastic behind.

Now, fast forward to 2020 WF. We have the Grineer, a rotting clone army slowly being regenerated by Kuva, a mysterious red fluid, but not fast enough. The remaining of the two queens (after we killed one of them in self defense) is an impetuous brat, and we know they were created by the Orokin as a means to fight some threat. At some point, the Grineer rebelled against the Orokin, and now they're all focused on taking control of the vestiges of the empire.

The Corpus were founded by Parvos Granum, who's actually still alive now that we've rescued him, or he used us to get us out of Protea's little Void pocket. He founded the Corpus originally as a mercantile guild that kind of turned into a bit of a cult. The other three bigwigs have some relation with us. Frohd Bek is our buddy Darvo's dad, and probably dead after we blew up his ship. Alad V has literally been chopping up our frames and making them into weird cats, calls us betrayers, infected himself with the Infestation, was subsequently cleansed of this because of Infestation, inadvertently helped us figure out who we actually are while annoying Stalker, and now is making Sentient amalgams while kind of asking us to help take out the Sentients. Nef Anyo is an evil slavedriver who is constantly trying to take over the entirety of the Corpus through underhanded tactics. His primary exploited labor force is the Solaris, a group of cybernetically "enhanced" nonsense people who are clearly less cost effective than basic robotics and only exist due to some weird emotion component that only the story team could possibly explain but still haven't. Killer theme tune though.

The Infestation is caused by the Technocyte Virus, which was designed to fix a lot of the damage the Orokin did to Earth. Instead, it made zombies that started spreading across the Empire. Now they're kind of being held at bay by all of the factions.

Sentients exist. They hate the Orokin, they want us dead. That's about all we got at this point.

The Orokin are basically gone, but we have a few vestiges of them lingering about like the Entrati, Ballas (who's a bit Sentient-y now), Nihil, the Unum, the Quills, and some others. We have a ton of relics laying around, and we know that the Orokin were very unjust, and very... uh, consuming. They were really bad, but some of them were good, and now there are some colonies left. And we kind of murdered all the bad guys because Lotus made us.

Then there's us. So Lotus has somehow been led astray by Ballas, and she's now some sort of Sentient warlord thingy again. Meanwhile, we're child soldiers made by accident by the Orokin who happen to be able to transfer into the Warframes, which are made of infested flesh, but have no mind of their own, except when they do. We massacred the Orokin, and now we're protecting colonies (that we never go to). We pretty much do nothing but raid and pillage the Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Orokin places while murdering countless legions of enemies. Sometimes we also go into VR and kill the souls of them trapped by a mad cephalon who insists he's "backing up" all of creation. We're buddy-buddy with six organizations that hate two of the others, and those organizations will hunt us down if we're allied with their enemies. Only we're immortal, so it's kinda pointless. For some reason, we're still fighting, and we do special missions for some guy wearing an ash tray on his head who insists we fight each other for sport, some pirate radio host who talks like she's in a 70s blaxploitation movie because tropes, some fishing village on Earth that have an Orokin tower that governs them, a race of people with their heads in their chest, and some Orokin family that's somehow less functional than Big Brother.

All in all, there are some decent nuggets, but my god is this story a mess. There is almost nothing about us that I like. I hate the fact that I'm basically a magical 13-18 year old who has really bad mommy issues. The writing is often so ham-fisted that it's barely tolerable. I really can't express how many times I was like, "That's [swear]ing stupid. No really, that's dumb. Oh god, that's dumb," over the past two quests. Protea's quest is disappointing for two reasons: 1) I really hate the Solaris. They're only useful as a storytelling device because they're an analog for student debt among millennials. But the implementation of "Oh. They're humans, but they replace their body parts with cheap robotic stuff at exorbitant rates because familial debt bonds are a thing and they cut their heads off, hollow out their chests, and put their heads in their chests" is freaking unsettling. 2) Making the quest focus on temporal manipulation just means that we're stuck with Protea's godawful 4.

The Entrati are at least well acted, especially Daughter and Son. And I dig the Bohemian Rhapsody reference in the quest. But ugh. Maybe it's the fact that my parents got divorced when I was really young and my relationship with my sibling is... well... strained. But basically making me play the peacemaker in this dysfunctional family solely for selfish reasons (I kinda like being a space demon) just rubbed me the wrong way. And even after having them kiss and make up, the fact that they're still at each other's throats (I'm too lazy to max them because there's no reason to) is kind of annoying. They're terrible people with almost no redeeming qualities except for the fact that they're kind of the ones keeping us from losing our powers while they slowly turn into rafflesia flowers.

Oh, also we space pirates now, because why not.

The writing of this game is disgustingly sloppy, and if you look at all of the concept art, the Leverian, and through missions, we get tons of conflicting bits and pieces, and the core concept of "You are a child soldier in a flesh suit that is based off a person who was eaten by a space virus," you end up with sludgy mass of false starts and abandoned threads. I really wish the story of this game was more straightforward. I pretty much want to basically figure out how to fix the system, but the writing more or less railroads us into actually kind of being the bad guys. Yeah the other three factions just want to consume resources, but we're basically leeching off of them via guerrilla warfare. In this power fantasy, I really don't feel like I'm actually effecting any impactful or meaningful change.

On the bright side, the gunplay and powers are really fun. So I guess I'll keep playing.

[AdunSaveMe]

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

Lore is not a replacement for story in any way shape or form.

They are not mutually exclusive. Worldbuilding is just as important as a direct plot narrative, if not more.

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

Nothing of what i said is me comparing things to warframe, i'm just saying what things i found more interesting than the warframe story and lore, i don't know why i specifically like them more, maybe it's because i started to play dark souls during the start of the quarantine. (Probably if i had played it either until now or before the quarantine i wouldn't have gotten invested in the lore)

hace 1 hora, (NSW)Electropuncher dijo:

On the bright side, the gunplay and powers are really fun. So I guess I'll keep playing.

Yeah, i don't really care about story but i've heard many people say that the lore is very mixed and twisted , either way i found it somewhat interesting, and i don't follow stories well so i couldn't say much about it.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, sitfesz said:

- You have mommy issues
Wait

Honestly I would expect the Tenno to have deep-seated issues with parental and authority figures even if the Z-kids weren't part of the setting. The "Space Mom" nickname existed as far back as I can remember, late 2014 at least, and Second Dream didn't hit until December 2015

4 hours ago, sitfesz said:

- You take orders now from your ships operation system
What

Delegating overwatch to someone is not the same as taking orders from them. Post-Apostasy, you're the one deciding everything, not Ordis. Proof: the new Jupiter Sabotage mission makes it clear that you, the Tenno, decided on this target, and Ordis is just scanning for weak points. Ordis only sounds like he's bossing you around when he's using pre-recorded Lotus lines

[CoalitionOfGears]

I find the setting, as in the theme I agreed to when picking up the game, is cool. Otherwise I wouldn't have picked it up, obviously.

The lore (the Cephalon fragments, the Ghouls stuff, some of the quests) is randomly scattered all over the place, so even if I wanted to explore it, I'd need to do a wiki dive to find the possible locations for some of the stuff to pick up or scan and then hope to RNG gods that it spawns at all on the tileset. Easier to just read the stuff on the webpage, tbh. That being said, over the years I've picked up/scanned/done out of my own volition nearly all of the available lore pieces (excepting kurias and open world collectibles), but never really bothered to read it. All in all, it's optional, so I don't mind, nor really care.

The plot, on the other hand... ugh. There are some nicely done quests that are enjoyable, but most of them are pretty badly written (sometimes laughably so) and they're all disconnected from one another, there's no continuum or much consistency between them, and whenever a new quest comes out, my now-trained reaction is 'all right, let's get this over with to get the new stuff'. Plus, plot points tend to be forgotten for years on end here, so caring too much about this stuff, even if I could find a way to enjoy it against all odds, is at best impractical.

Clearly, the writing isn't Warframe's forte. That's absolutely fine, not every game needs to be played for its plot. Still, there are people who for some reason praise it, and I wonder what their standards are. Wouldn't mind it normally, but it seems they're pretty damn successful with their words of encouragement for the writers, because with every quest I see more of the stuff I despise that just wasn't there when the quests first started coming out. Instead of getting to finish the admittedly fun story of the Stalker, I get to meet Konzus, Little Ducks and Cys, and I'm stuck with them for hours grinding stuff, all the while they're taking up half my screen talking about some nonsense I don't care about...

[lnfine]

WF lore doesn't exist. Much less a coherent story.

I mean we haven't even heard of civilians in the solar system. There exist Fortuna and Cetus, but both combined would barely constitute a small village. Quite frankly there seem to be no places even left in the solar system to place actual civilization into.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

22 minutes ago, lnfine said:

WF lore doesn't exist. Much less a coherent story.

I mean we haven't even heard of civilians in the solar system. There exist Fortuna and Cetus, but both combined would barely constitute a small village. Quite frankly there seem to be no places even left in the solar system to place actual civilization into.

Myconians from Glast Gambit say Hi. and while it's a n old argument, it's still true that it's not a good idea for us to be near civillian colonies since nearly everywhere we go turns into a warzone.

the story is pretty decent, the only problems are that A: some events aren't encountered in the chronological order in which they're supposed to have happened (Alad V being a great example) and B: while it's understandable for the story to take a backseat to make way for gameplay, it does take an awfully long time to get more of the story and Lore. the Leverian and Entrati entries are about the only real additions to the lore I recall in the past couple of years, and story quests don't happen as often now either. 

it's also going to be a LONG time before we get the New War and Planes of Duviri, I just hope that they can live up to the hype (or at least offer a decent story).

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 hours ago, (XB1)BRUHck Obama said:

I have never been much into the lore of games and although i like stories and appreciate when they are well done i dont care much about them anymore , the only lore i've been invested in is Dark souls and about stories i liked cod BO1 and BO2 story, then i stopped caring about the story in games after some time. So i can't really give my opinion on how good or bad is the warframe story and lore, since i forgot almost everything from the 'story' and lore of warframe, the lore i kind of like it but i'm not going out of my way just to check it. In the end i play games just for the gameplay and to have fun, if i wanted a good story i'd read a book, not because there aren't good stories in videogames but because i'd rather do it at my own pace and more silently.

What's your opinion on the lore and story of warframe? 

 

DE needs to be more fully invested in lore, backstory, story and cinematics and then tie into gameplay and design.

Second Dream set thecbsseline pretty high.

But investments suggest a ROI, which is a challenge.  We clamor for it, but would we voluntarily pay for it?  This is why I think PAs should tie in stories with current Tennoverse happenings.

The Story of the Lotus is a bit like a song...Second Dream ushered in one HECKUVA first Stanza and hopefully DE is investing in one HECKUVA finale which is why it has taken so long.

Intros and Endings...

Enrich purchasable items with Story. 

[Hearsay]

A friend and I were talking about this recently and I made the statement "Warframe's story is a lot better if you assume the Second Dream and everything after is just Warframe fan fiction."  Granted, it doesn't mean it's all garbage.  I mean, if you pull some of the quests out into a vacuum then they're quite enjoyable.  The Sacrifice is probably my favorite quest, even though it falls into the "fan fiction" part of the story.  But, seriously, I enjoyed Warframe a lot better when I assumed we were badass ninjas in high tech suits rather than whiny anime protagonist children who are basically operating bipedal magic flesh drones.

 

But if you put it all together then it's really clear that DE is making crap up as they go and lack any sort of real focus or direction.  I mean, there's no reason we should still have glitch Lotus.  Heck, the directionless really shows with Lotus.  Go fight the Ropolyst and Natah is very confident and very determined in what she's doing.  Then, later, in the New War cutscenes, she's suddenly a clueless child who's being betrayed?  Like... what?  Or, the Second Dream.  "OMG THE MOON WAS IN THE VOID!!!"  Uhhh... neat?  Didn't foreshadow that  or ever make the Moon seem important before now though, so it kinda came out of nowhere.  "HOLY CRAP YOU'RE A KID!"  Again, where was the build up?  This is just throwing in a twist for the sake of twisting!

 

It also doesn't help that Warframe absolutely insists on trying to do things differently or be utterly unique even when it doesn't make much sense.  Like, why is Nef enslaving the Solaris and putting up with their crap when a bunch of work Moas and Ospreys would likely be cheaper and more profitable?  Why are the Ostrons eating flesh that's been sitting in the walls of a tower for centuries when there's plenty of fish and animals to hunt?  We see Corpus shopping there, so why don't they buy some food?

 

The lore drip feed also just is... meh.  It's scattered everywhere, super incoherent, and you have to go dig up a lot just to figure crap out.  Drip feed plot [i]can work[/i].  I mean, Metroid Prime pulls it off incredibly well with its scan logs.  There's also the "Man in the Cave" plot in one of the Fallout New Vegas DLCs (I forget which) that you can only find in different computer terminals and it's a great tale.  But both of those are coherent and well positioned.  Warframe though seems to follow the tradition of just dumping lore droplets because that's what sells.  I mean, they sprinkle some lore here and there and just wait for all the YouTubers to make videos, which gives them free advertising.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a 30-minute video about "Blue Kuva and what it means for Warframe's lore" out there now.  People seem to eat up ARG lore these days, even if the crap gets contradicted and overwritten every new update (hello FNAF!)

 

Still though, Warframe does have its moments.  Some questlines are pretty good (again, the Sacrifice) and even some of the more meh questlines have their moments, like Parvos chewing out Nef in Deadlock Protocol and Nef's reaction made me chuckle.  But, for the most part, a lot of the plot makes the aspiring novelist in me shake his head.

[Duality52]

21 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

The only problem I currently have is the order of events, there's some operations that have main story behind them and you can't play them anymore. So some stuff like Alad getting infected then cured is just messy right now.

Definitely this. Older events like Gradvius Dilemma give a proper intro. and characterization to different factions in Warframe.

The lore while fascinating, most of it feels isolated and abandoned such as the Quills and particularly the Unum. They did, however, made the Requiem Words quite relevant to the lore rather than being mere checkpoints in shanking Kuva Liches. That helps connect isolated lore and content together with the rest of the Warframe narrative.

[Hierarch777]

Honestly, It's better than anything Mihoyo could come up with. They absolutely blow at story writing. Only reason ppl defend them is 'they make the best waifus, fanservice etc.'