Your opinion on lore and story.

[vanaukas]

9 minutes ago, five13 said:

Your constant reliance on tactical alerts and Fortuna really just drive home that all of this is missable.  Tac alerts aren't always accessible, Ambulas reborn isn't something that was required for my progression, and Fortuna was already answered.

It is, that's not on me but in the devs choice of storytelling. A lot of other stuff is not consistent for new players, Alad V is the prime example of that, wich is what already said.

9 minutes ago, five13 said:

You brought this to ME.  I didn't ask to talk with you,  If you want to be rude, then be rude elsewhere.   I'm not wasting my time with you anymore.

I just pointed out that we don't fight true corpus but slaves, something that is stated on several ways in the game (tactical alerts, simaris data, fragments on open worlds, kuria, etc), if you don't believe me do your own, but if you are going to claim that "And of course, you'd need a good reason for an Operator who has never learned about high-level Corpus at any point (a distinct possibility, considering pre-Fortuna players) to have that opinion." at least do some homework.

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2020-10-16 at 7:33 PM, (XB1)BRUHck Obama said:

Your opinion on lore and story.

Honestly, I think that a big part of the problem with the lore is that people just don't pay enough attention to what's there. Part of that is because the lore is diffuse, spread out in dribs and drabs, through many different systems for us to discover, but for many they don't actually notice it piling up, or take the time to think it through.

There's also bits like the creation of the Sentients, that seem to refer to an archimedian being condemned, who could be Margulis, but the timeline doesn't allow for that. I freely admit that I didn't notice that anachronism until it was pointed out to me here in the forums. There's also the fact that in updating certain old content and adding new things to the middle of the starchart (which DE needs to do more of) it sort of muddles the timeline, and stuff becomes retconned, which leads to a level of confusion of the sequence of events, but those seem to get sorted out in due course as people eventually figure out where things belong.

But seriously, we've got players who only noticed the "orokin highway" in Deimos, despite Earth being a planet that we MUST interact with before getting to Deimos.

 

There are absolutely players who do know the lore quite well, and I've seen some very indepth discussions on the lore on the forums. Many of those discussions center around what a particular phrase may mean, and how it may eventually influence a part of the future lore. But there are also a lot of players who clearly don't know a thing, other than what some youtuber said, and since "outrage" seems to bring views faster than quality, a lot of that seems to involve "dis iz trash, dat iz trash".

 

On 2020-10-16 at 7:33 PM, (XB1)BRUHck Obama said:

What's your opinion on the lore and story of warframe? 

I enjoy it, and wish that there were more of it.

[Kaggelos]

I like almost everything in terms of story. Sure, there are some issues here and there, but overall, its pretty good, especially the latest, the Naberus story with the 3 Orokin dudes and their shenanigans.

One issue i have and ive noticed recently, is that we almost never get to see or hear of actual colonies (apart from Ostron and Solaris, Earth and Venus respectively). What's their lifestyle, economy, night life, school/educational system, religions/s, customs, heck, even political systems?

For example, in Mass Effect (my personal golden standard for world building), each species had its own culture, politics, beliefs, etc, and had the luxury of visiting different worlds. I dont know if we can have the same here, but at least, even in test form, inform us of said colonies, informing us of their everyday lives.

For example, Nora mentions of someone hitting on her (i think). What constitutes a fitting environment for something like this to take place, if all we see are grineer and corpus military installations?

In conclusion, in my personal opinion, the Origin System doesnt feel lived in. Where are all the regular folk at? We dont even see office and administrative rooms in all those Grineer/Corpus tilesets we visit (unless im blind, not impossible).

[BahamutKaiser]

It's basically edgelord nonsense with increasingly cringy secret revealed lore points. It's not terrible at first, but it gets silly and ridiculous quickly.

The big problem is the shallow and vapid dialogue present throughout the game, particularly from the enemies. A great story and hero is defined by its opponent. You hear it all the time in boxing, such n such is undefeated, but who did they actually fight? Well your super savage edgelord beats up mutated retards and the droids from clone wars. Their leaders are mind numbingly one dimensional, and even your syndicate allies are mostly idealistic fascists. There's no broader infrastructure of production, communities, families. Imagine if you had every intention of butchering Alad V, but his wonderful family and cute children were just too precious to suffer. Nope, arbitrarily inhuman one dimensional villain of validation for children players to butcher "without" consequence.

Warframe lacks a lot of what makes a believable fantasy. The bystanders who do exist only exist to arbitrarily vilify foes. Super high tech capitalists who have an endless amount of robotic proxies to do their bidding? They have a worker colony of cyborgs using sledges and wrenches to do maintenance, because fully robotic machines are more expensive than slaves who occasionally rebel, resulting in the complete destruction of facilities.

The proxy rebellion actually made more sense, AI that became so advanced that it no longer tolerates servitude. But they needed to fit in another secret reveal, and make more sympathetic victims, so parts repossession cyborgs it is.

The story in Warframe is particularly bad, you only need to ever read good books to realize how much so. 

[vanaukas]

12 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Imagine if you had every intention of butchering Alad V, but his wonderful family and cute children were just too precious to suffer. Nope, arbitrarily inhuman one dimensional villain of validation for children players to butcher "without" consequence.

 

12 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

The story in Warframe is particularly bad, you only need to ever read good books to realize how much so. 

Kinda sure that if you read a good book your example wouldn't be "what if this bad guy has a nice family to suffer the consequences of his death"

[Hearsay]

In the next patch, all assassination targets, story bosses, and liches should have a cutscene after you drain their last bit of health where they pull out a wallet and show you photos of their family.  After they've shown and explained each one of them, then you have to decide whether you kill them or not.  Killing them gets their drops but also has their friends and family periodically send you transmissions and mail to remind you that you've become a monster.

Each one, when killed, also has a 5% chance to drop a birthday gift they were about to present to their child, which you can display in your orbiter.

[Numerikuu]

It's a bit everywhere, especially with Alad and Vor, but what there is I like. It just needs to all be brought together and put in proper order imo.

Really looking forward to what the Planes of Duviri has to bring.

[CephalonCarnage]

Part of the thing about lore is that it should be patchy - to some extent - so you can fill out the missing bits, and also leaves you wanting more. If they told you everything, it'd be dull very quickly, bvut working it out yourself makes for threads like this one. content, for free!

Lore-wise, can you imagine the Orokin as a few elites ruling over the peasant classes? If you can't, just take a moment out of your job grouting bathrooms or selling toasters to imagine Bill Gates and Elon Musk at Davos next year deciding what government's global response to economic problems will be, and you have one idea of what the Orokin empire might have looked like 😏 Maybe though the Orokin were a kind of mostly-human super-technological Anunnaki ruling over humanity and the corpus their slave-race. Its up to you to decide which you think fits better, and no official response from DE is required. You make it more complete than anything they could offer you becuase they let you develop it in your head yourself. That's what makes lore work best.

Most of civilian life is not for the terrorist/freedom fighter tenno causing havoc around the place. It'd be too costly to develop and adds no gameplay, so is just left as background. They could do a bit more in this regard, but nobody would use that content - the closest we get is Cetus, but why have the opportunity to go shopping for new socks when Ordis refuses to darn the holes in your last pair? Its not gameplay anyone wants.

I think the only option for an end-game that would add life to the world is for the tenno to actually change the world, those repetitive missions could have a deciding quest about them, the assault on the Grineer fortress HQ on Earth, plus all their supply depots, and the grineer outposts that once complete, ends the grineer patrols and units on the plains, and replaces then with villagers going fishing or farming instead. Similarly, we could have end-game missions that ends each of the missions on Earth, once done (with suitably almost-impossible odds) deletes the mission points in a "you defeated the grineer and now nature returns to this part of the globe" manner. It'd be a nice idea, and something to give meaning to your role as this metal Che Guevara figure. (or, if you went Moon alignment, maybe you only wanted to be god-emperor of the grineer ruling over Earth instead)

But I doubt we'll get anything like that, DE cannot even release the 5th act of Nightwave, so expectations for anything other than "cool new stuff that adds something someone thought up whilst sitting on the toilet one day" is entertaining for the forum, but otherwise sadly pointless.

 

But maybe that's the thing - whilst the lore is incomplete and just inconsistent enough, it makes us desire a conclusion to the story. DE tells us to wait a bit longer, more cool stuff is coming, and so we grind away... forever.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

A rich and varied story with a solid beginning.

marred by a non cohesive fly by the seat of your pants planning approach. A make as u go narrative, adhoc stories and inconsistent delivery! 

There is a missing lore master locked in the cellar at DE... I was told by creditable sources,  "everyone who works at DE when they leave for the day, they kick this individual in the groin before they leave"?

Then they revoke this individuals access to what's going on(while slapping and pushin'em around).

Then in a (dungeon) office with no windows make them code on a typewriter, then transfer it to floppy disc for records. Then the whole team in cahoots make this individual communication lane twitter only...making the lore'M tell the story by way of limited characters. Then they joke and cut off the power to his office (dungeon) causing content wipes regularly.

I have it on good authority that DE should be investigated over this?

[BRZZAFK]

At least it's better than wow.

[SilentMobius]

On 2020-10-22 at 8:37 AM, Kaggelos said:

I like almost everything in terms of story. Sure, there are some issues here and there, but overall, its pretty good, especially the latest, the Naberus story with the 3 Orokin dudes and their shenanigans.

One issue i have and ive noticed recently, is that we almost never get to see or hear of actual colonies (apart from Ostron and Solaris, Earth and Venus respectively). What's their lifestyle, economy, night life, school/educational system, religions/s, customs, heck, even political systems?

I mean, I literally said this when the Gradivus Dilemma hit:

I even mentioned ME3 later on, but at that point we had noting but a line in the Gradivus dilemma indicating civilians , since them we've gained:

• Cetus and the Ostron
• Fortuna and the Solaris
• The Myconian Colony
• Iron Wake for Steel Meridian. Also the Kavor

We are in a much, much better place for fleshing out the life of the Origin System.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2020-10-16 at 7:49 PM, Kaotyke said:

Which is why later comers have difficulty grasp´ping it at first glance.

Late comers have difficulty grasping the lore because the majority of it is locked behind time-limited events that they refuse to bring back.  A huge chunk of the lore isn't even in the game anymore because of this incredibly poor design choice, and it has absolutely nothing to do with people not being willing to dig deeper.  Whole quest lines and story arcs don't make any sense because these events are gone.  There's boss fights (like Ambulas) that act like there was all this build up to the fight, but there currently isn't.  The first time I ran it I thought I had missed a quest or some story nodes or something.  Alad V's storyline is a complete joke at this point.  You literally hit the tail end of his current story before you ever even encounter him for the first time, then the timeline just goes careening wildly back and forth until you end up having to just read the damn wiki to figure out what's going on or give up on the lore altogether.

As for OP's question:

I think that they spend too much effort on being pretentious and trying to sound deep and philosophical than they do on actually crafting a story.  Look at the "lore" in the hidden section of the Necralisk.  Without spoilers:  It takes like 10 minutes and a half a dozen nodes to tell a 2 minute story because of the long-winded flowery words that everything has to be described in with excruciating detail.  Nora won't shut up precisely because she's rambling off some Lit major's pretentious inspirational BS because you posted a glyph in Hydron.

Deadlock protocol was a whole quest with the lore content of an extended teaser trailer.  The lore in this game is stretched as thin as the content is.  In fact, it suffers from nearly every issue the core game has.  They put some lore out, then forget about it and leave a bunch of loose ends while they work on another shiny bit of lore that they'll never actually flesh out.  What's there is interesting, if not full of holes.  But it's scattered in a dozen different mediums (some of it is in comics for crying out loud.) and if you cut all the college term paper filler fluff out of it, what you're left with is pretty sparse.

[Sangie]

On 2020-10-17 at 1:49 AM, Kaotyke said:

Just a sec, I need to do this as a preemptive strike this.

WARFRAME HAS A STORY?! PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH! HUEHHEUEHUEHEUHE! HIHIHIHIEHIHEHEHHOHOHOHOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! HEHEHEHEHEHHHGHGADVSBACkgB NEKHAFV ACUJKGHFYACUNXDUIB AGNUYBGCFHAXEGHNaaaaaan! nnnnnnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 

 

There, now I can actually be constructive.

Its a bit like Dark Souls.

Some things are directly told to you and the rest you have to piece together. Which is why later comers have difficulty grasp´ping it at first glance.

LMAO imagine trying to compare DE lore in Warframe to Dark Souls.... You're really stretching there bud. Warframe lore is like a spaghetti code of ideas that are contradictory, full of holes, and just follow the whims of whatever they think is "cool" at the time and then gets dropped or forgotten. Tie that into a game that doesn't have a well planned progression system and you have a cluster of confusion for anyone (especially new players) who suddenly find themselves interacting with characters they have never met, or have no business meeting yet according to the "lore". It's not a simple fact of "they don't tell you everything".

Dark Souls on the other hand is extremely well thought out and  placed. The entire world is consistently built around it through each sequel. Miyazaki didn't just leave stuff out either, things that were made explicit, implicit and left to mystery were all really well thought out planned and made available to the player at the right moments to allow them to figure out and learn more about the world and each enemy they are fighting. The dark souls story is Coherent and isn't full of holes and dropped ideas. It's rather insulting to compare it to Warframe.

Now, I understand that in a game like Dark Souls certain things to do lore wise are a lot easier and especially tying lore into progression. That doesn't excuse DE though, they have more than enough money and resource to have a dedicated lore building team if they wanted. The problem is that because of the way they've built the game, the cluster of dropped ideas, characters and holes in the plot it is pretty much impossible to try and fix it. Much like how impossible hard it is to fix spaghetti code when it exist (if you have programming knowledge) and they can't do it without completely re-hauling their mission/progression system with the story in mind (locking players out of certain things, reviewing all quest prerequisites etc) and doing a full review of the story while  completely removing certain story points and adding more information to make things consistent. This is a LOT of work and of course as the updates roll out because time moves forward, that just adds to the ever growing bowl of spaghetti. It seems that DE has more gone the route of "well, we've decided to add more lore to the game because it got way more popular than we had ever expected. We can't really change all the stuff we did at the start (without a ton of work, meh)... so I'f we just keep adding stuff, hopefully, eventually, all that messy stuff will fade into obscurity and be overwritten by new lore we create and it'll be gucci" - Dave probably. This explains why we are getting updates that make us think, "Hey that makes no sense, and directly contradicts everything we've know about the lore of this or these things up to this point." it's not ideal, but that's the way DE has decided to handle it so not much we can do about that.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

In short: DE are masters of foreshadowing, and nobody seems to realize that. The story in warframe is the biggest reason I still play it. I'd say 80%. Remove the  story from warframe and I wouldnt care for it anymore, use the story and setting in another type of game and I'd be all over that.