Jump to content

Rivers and lakes from Deimos Cambion Drift deserves more attention


Recommended Posts

Spoiler

I have returned to to Warframe after some problems with the removal of self-damage, now we have things to compensate difficulty, like the Steel Path which is quite fun for me. Deimos is a dream coming true, music is one of the best, art for infestation is lovely shocking, Fass fighting with Vome is pure chaos, all proof of the incredible creativity from the artistic direction and everything else from the devs. I can see now that the map seems to be smaller horizontally and reasonable sized vertically.

When it comes to the ''water'' and fishing on Deimos, to be honest and straight forward, it feels incomplete or just won't match all the incredible stuff in there and in most aspects of game regarding creativity and difficulty. We could have a quicksand effect in the rivers and lakes instead of solid water, making it look more like some heavy jelly instead. We should have some sort of problem, or effect and even status, just to make us run slower in there.

During the night, the Eidolon plains water gives us magnetic status if you step on lakes and rivers during the night. When around the Vallis, water got this cool frozen-gel effect and larger bodies of water (meaning if you fall into it you reset ashore) but Deimos is just a solid thing there. Maybe sticky-water could replace it instead, causing something else - anything would be better than just solid water to walk above it.

First example I did on some crappy software, sorry for that. Quicksand effect would drag you down the jelly, the fish would be there and casual enemies could follow you, but slowing everyone down or just blocking most of our super moves or ranged attacks. On places not deep enough, we would simply be half-way dragged by the jelly - that I assume it's infested secretion of sort. Either way a couple jumps could lift us off the jelly. This isn't swimming, I propose that the thing shouldn't be t solid rock nor light like water.

rocha.jpg

Another example. Instead of being fully dragged, we could be only half-way instead, no matter how deep the fissure but preventing us to easily jump or to cast archwing. It could be ultra slippery instead of that too. Or just ultra sticky, anything different from the ground could do it. I personally don't care if there is no visual effect for that (like snow being drawn on other games) in that case, its just like Interstellar water world, never really drowning completely but it just looks normal outside, no need for super effects to understand you're knee-depth in the jelly, slipping through or sticking on it.

The jelly color could be different from the ground itself, maybe something purple, green or yellow fluorescent or bio-luminescent - any color - just like the infestation have, since the jelly appears to be organic just like then instead of mineral rock. Flying above Deimos it all looks the same brownish color. I had to tweak graphics to show more about the brown color. Eidolon plains got more colors and textures rework recently. We don't need it this bad, but the infestation deserves it, bizarre beauties they are.

20201017143514-1.jpg

What I mean is, for such a small map like Deimos, it is too easy to navigate everywhere. We don't have much HARD things while flying nor when walking, except for occasional enemies but only the enemies. Just a few bullet jumps and I'm in the far end of the map. More elements to be bogging navigation where it is needed is what I'm saying, rivers and lakes are extremely easy and uninteresting right now.

PS: It's just an idea for the devs, if you disagree we don't need to panic, lets keep up with polite and humble arguments be yay or nay, they will only reply back to us this way and so will I.

Edited by ------.Queen-of-Blades
"Hard" over "annoy"
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, ------.Queen-of-Blades said:

What I mean is, for such a small map like Deimos, it is too easy to navigate everywhere. We don't have much things to annoy us while flying nor when walking, except for occasional enemies but only the enemies

I had to slap my cheeks and read this a few times because I could swear I was reading it wrong. Apologies for what's probably going to come across as rude, but you're not supposed to say the quiet part out loud. You're supposed to talk about challenge and design and "pwning noobs" or some such. If you come straight out and say that you want to make the game more annoying, you aren't going to get a lot of traction. Not having things that annoy us is a GOOD thing.

With that said...

I will agree on one point: The Exocrine really should be a different colour from the rest of the ground. Deimos as a whole is an abject failure of colour grading, because the entire area is just one giant smear of dirt brown as far as the eye can see. Almost no attempt has been made to implement colour contrast anywhere, leading to a zone that looks far too samey. I'd personally like to see the Exocrine be rendered in some kind of green, preferably a bluish green. I'd also like to see the various natural rock formations rendered in volcanic black so as to stand out from the brown/orange Infestation. I'd also like to see the large standing Infested structures rendered in bone white, so that they too stand out from the ground. Orb Vallis is does a far, far better job making its terrain features distinct that I'm not sure how Deimos slipped through with this limited of a colour palette.

Actually, I have a suspicion... DE talked at length about how many 11th hour art changes they'd done to the zone just prior to release and how hard they rode their art team. Uninspired colour selection seems like a logical extension of this.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone thinks that having clean easy stuff is good. Hence why I did the first comment on spoiler. So they could remove the magnetic status from Eidolon plains so we don't get annoyed, but that would be as boring as walking above solid water. Hundreds of words and only ''annoyed'' got nitpicked, it definitely pays off my writing. Hopes to last they'll make it more cool anyway.

Edited by ------.Queen-of-Blades
Points
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, ------.Queen-of-Blades said:

Not everyone thinks that having clean easy stuff is good. Hence why I did the first comment on spoiler. So they could remove the magnetic status from Eidolon plains so we don't get annoyed, but that would be as boring as walking above solid water. Hundreds of words and only ''annoyed'' got nitpicked, it definitely pays off my writing. Hopes to last they'll make it more cool anyway.

Quick note - if you're responding to me, it helps to quote me. That notifies me of a response. Otherwise, I have to randomly stumble upon your post to respond to it.

I didn't address most of your post because I fundamentally disagree with your general premise. I don't believe the Exocrine needs to be any more dangerous or that movement through Deimos needs to be any more impeded. And no, I don't see the point of the Magnetic proc in the Plains of Eidolon water, though it's a cute little lore element - we only get zapped in bodies of water with Eidolon bones in them. I picked up on the word "annoying" simply because it's indicative of the kind of negative approach to game design that not a lot of people are going to be sympathetic to. There's certainly an audience for games that deliberately screw with the player, but not much of one and certainly not much of one here. You may want to couch your words a little if you want actual feedback.

At any rate, that was just a brief aside. I wanted to focus on the one point where we seemed to agree, which is the visual design of the exocrine. It could definitely use more colour, as can Deimos as a whole.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like to write, so be ready. Again, Deimos can be crossed over with a few bullet jumps if you know how. Let me emphasize and clarify things here for the record, what I had in mind when I wrote my idea down this thread.

1- If you can beat the dojo's track with no bugs and cheats within 10/15 seconds or less you know what I mean, Deimos landscape extension is way too easy for us, specially veterans. There is a difference between cheap hard and cheap easy and Deimos isn't exactly in the middle of that.

2- I write and make drawings for years now, I even won a dojo beauty contest past year in second place, this proves to me I'm not crazy ( I think) I must have at least a couple valid points. The exocrine is an incredible waste of potential and for that matter, it looks way unexplored in that regard, this is why I said that. If not mechanically with the gameplay, then aesthetically with the game's art (incredible art is everywhere on warframe, not just farming and rng codes).

My guts are perfectly hardwired to accept both things at the same time no matter how hard (I guess when I wrote my idea I was only thinking about that) and I admit that maybe I went too far. Again, we lost self-damage against my will. I know our community very well. But... anyone or anything cheap-easy will be immediately rejected by me. I can't take those seriously so this is why I said that. It is just how I see gaming. I naturally don't pay attention for easy little things in that matter, just clarifying my position about difficulty, if people don't like it, I'm not on their side and they won't be mine's. The ''annoying'' reference was sarcasm at it best. About cheap-hard, well, unfair stuff isn't to my liking either.

Anyway, Deimos isn't really compensating its size vertically as my clan mates suggested, unless some of its caves were generated procedurally like common tiles.

I couldn't agree with some of them but they were minorities in the discussion. There were no arguments, only good points brilliantly made, such as getting stuck on a mutated blob. This is a jumping game, no one walks anywhere. Most of us bullet-jump from the forge to the arsenal. So why not force us to ditch it for a little while, - for a while - it doesn't need to be forever. New War will probably attempt doing that by temporally disabling the frames. Sometimes a artistic look overlaps mechanics but they can live together in harmony, I love Warframe for that.

The exocrine looks like a slimy discharge, looks organic whatever the technocyte is. The potential it holds and Deimos in general is amazing, gameplay or just visually either way works for me. When I tell my friends about Warframe they don't believe until I show them videos and my own gameplay. But look at things like Frame Fighter. No one plays it much, and we have a friendly PvP arena on the dojo totally abandoned and useless. See my point? I don't always understand and I surely don't always agree with the devs, everytime I see potential being wasted I want to express my feelings about it. Such as transferring Frame Fighter out of the arcade mini-game to the dojo so we could make internal contests. Alliances are useless now after the removal of the rail conflicts, so why not? One of the explanations must be because a free game is logistics dependent, some stuff aren't exactly optional so that's fair enough, sadly. I usually go to reddit for that, this forum has become my last resort I'm not sure the devs are even reading.

Edited by ------.Queen-of-Blades
grammar
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-10-17 at 9:38 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Deimos as a whole is an abject failure of colour grading, because the entire area is just one giant smear of dirt brown as far as the eye can see. Almost no attempt has been made to implement colour contrast anywhere, leading to a zone that looks far too samey.

Not to sound rude to the art team, but in my opinion, these are my thoughts exactly. I prefer contrasts of warm and cool colors, red and blues (including variations of them).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also forgot to mention that Deimos is supposed to be hostile, a 100% of the time everywhere anywhere. It is the infested we're talking about. A good proof of that is when Fass remains are scattered on some zones and it gives some status when you walk on it. It isn't really hard but its disconforting - exactly my point. Try to imagine the possibilities with other things in there.


Also, the effects of these Fass remains are pretty cool looking when underneath the solid river, you can see down the exocrine better. I guess this is what the devs must be discussing about as you said they did on some of their streams.

 

Spoiler

20201018191212-1.jpg


When Vome e Fass are fighting, everything shakes, it is pretty disorienting during fighting and cancels any mining you're doing or the fishing, during the fight. That's another of my points and just too awesome, they can go further down that idea.

Edited by ------.Queen-of-Blades
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, I'm actually not a big fan of stuff that's "annoying" for the sake of it (looking at you, omni-present knockdowns). On the other hand, though, I think you have a valid point regarding Deimos as "completely hostile", so I would't mind some sort of effect actually. I'm glad, though, that Exocrine is not handled as "hole", where you constantly get respawned for running over it, a big improvemen to PoE and Orb Vallis imo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can swap annoying for hard to define it but people would complain even more. Let's try it out.

I just had another bug when the animal capture spot is underneath the water exocrine. I just couldn't reach there. The other day I had a bug again with it where a Panzer Vulpaphyla was inside the exocrine, or I couldn't reach for a specific rare fish even with the right tool. These are just examples of how problematic it is right now and how it could improve even if none of my suggestions are good. That's annoying. So maybe I was wrong and now I think easy is a better word to describe how most of Deimos feels to me. 

Animal capture is hard? No it is just annoying 🤣 and unfair, forcing us to do things some of us hate. I wish we could have a giant boss to fight and farm in there instead, it is an action game after all.

Edited by ------.Queen-of-Blades
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...