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controversial opinion, the helminth system is overrated and it gives excuses for not reworking or buffing warframes.


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controversial opinion but the helminth system is overrated: ive never crafted the helminth system and i still managed to enjoy the game without the need of replacing warframe abilities like everyone is saying, i like warframes with their default ability kits, it keeps their originality, and but thats my opinion, the real problem i want to mention is the fact its a nightmare, because not only can you can you take one good ability from a weak warframe and slap it onto a meta frame which makes meta frames more broken and weaker frames more terrible
 
is it makes it easier for the devs to make excuses to not buff/rework waframe abilities or waframes as a whole, why have a bad warframe ability if you can just replace it with a good ability, thats the same as if you homeless just buy a house, why do abilities exist in the first place? its by not so well balancing, and having the helminth system just throws out reasons to fix weaker waframes out the window straight into a grave, hell i know this will piss off alot of people but i bet if the helminth system was removed, it would force the devs to look at lower tier warframes and really work on improving them
 
i mean if we get a mechanical system for necramechs where we can remove one ability from one mech and slap it on another it would make the best necramech even more top tier and make the weaker mech more trash than ever, you get what i mean, i mean imagine if rivens were removed from the game to? not only it would focus the devs into buffing/reworking weaker weapons, it also removes the RNG/LootBox mechanics from players and makes people less scammy and really focus on other things, you know what i mean, its really controversial and i probably angered alot of people, but these are just my opinions ive bottled up for awhile, sorry.
 
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Ironically, everything you said is just false.  Weaker frames tend to have 1 or more bad skills, so dropping these results in a major improvement. Strong frames tend to have 4 strong, and sometimes synergistic, skills, so you end up around the same with a more specific niche.

And, the statistics from Helminth already got DE to start working on fixing weaker skills.

The system adds the most diversity in builds the game have seen in years. As for needing the Helminth, I could say that about nearly anything. Do we need rivens? Do we need to re-roll rivens? Do we need operator? Do we need Umbra mods? Do we need corrupted mods? Do we need mods?

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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Whole lotta hypotheticals there.

Simple matter is, that the Helminth system gives:

  • Customisability beyond what we previously had
  • The ability for players to fill in usability holes in frames that we like but have problems, without waiting for DE
  • A good reason to rerun rexisting content for Warframes
  • A good reason to acquire warframes that the might previously have avoided
  • A resource sink that isn't actually so bad for the patient.

So IMHO that makes it a sucess, regardless of what it might inspire DE to do or not do. (And maybe l've a lot more faith that DE will not make rework decisions based on anything other than their available time and the enthusiasm of the dev choosing to do the rework)

Edited by SilentMobius
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Helminth is recycled content, you will have to buy - for a second time.

... to fix developer's broken frames, they don't have time/interest in. Obviously. I don't think anyone ever denied that.

Simply to say, they already decided to not put in the work you are requesting. Deleting helminth won't change that.

The rushed out railjack, delayed nightwave etc. shows you all you need to know about their relationship to their schedule. So assuming mostly everything is going to be left hanging, it's now a question of selecting where to spend effort.

Put yourself in their shoes, without enough time for everything, what would you ignore, where would you focus your energy.

https://youtu.be/13mUFEXnB54?t=1

 

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Why is this a "Mega Thread"?

It's a pointless topic. x.x

The Helminth is a system for added customization.  It is NOT "OP", save for niche setups, perhaps, and given how new it is those are still subject to change, too.

You can't just slap on any skill from any frame onto any other frame.

Ya didn't even BUILD the thing, and you have the audacity to judge it like you're an expert on how it works and doesn't work?

Like, dude...  If you don't like it, don't engage with it.  It ain't mandatory.

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Please don't misuse tags.

 

I think you tend to have a lot of false misconceptions in the Helminth system.

 

I love it when the Helminth system changes up how you play the Warframe or how you build it.  Anyone can slap on a Rhino's Roar or use the most DPS thing for a frame.

 

If an overwhelming amount of things get replaced, i.e. Chroma's 1, Mesa's 1, they will consider changes.  Considering how new the system is and how impactful it is to the game, let them make the necessary changes without borking it (again, MfD lol).

 

There's only 1 mech at the moment, which is decent, has pretty good abilities, so it's way too soon and unnecessary for anything mech related Helminth-y like.

 

I personally like rivens, if they ever end up in a good place/ implemented better (lock one stat before reroll, make it untradable, but now you can get a perfect roll).

 

You didn't anger me, but I don't really feel like you offered any real solutions to any problems.  I get venting your frustrations, but constructive feedback would probably be best here.

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I'm not a very big fan of the Helminth system as a whole as I feel it opens up way too many potential venue for abuse. But I do like it's existence and the implications of it. I've always advocated for sacrificing our Warframes for a greater purpose. My original suggestion was to donate them to Alad V to make us a Zanuka-pet based on the Warframe itself.

 

Currently my major gripe with the Helminth is that...with a few exceptions, DE chose the most boring possible abilities to be subsumed. Instead of Atlas' punch being used on a tiny frame like Faerie-Titania or Nezha, we have a generic CC. Instead or a powerful sword or a defensive glass shield, we get...spectorhage. Instead of his shield or speed, we got...Volt's worthless nuke that doesn't scale and is only good for it's augment. Same with Hydroid. Same with Ash. Instead of any of the actually useful skills, we got Mesa's ballistic battery.

 

 

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yes, ofcourse you are correct - short of major internet burning or otherwise serious things that are pushed to being dealt with, anything on the smaller size, Helminth absorbs as a bandaid.

same to go with Forma being a bandaid to absorb most Mod balancing issues, Et Cetera.

 

and each of these types of things also happens to make a lot or money.
but yes, you are correct in your observation and to some degree that's what Helminth will cause. but, just like the rest of us, you don't win anything for observing it, we can only sit and watch it happen.

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Felt the same thing at first. But then i choose to use Helminth to improve my warframe's original design and improve my own immersion rather than breaking it with whatever abilities that's best.

My Fire Chroma has Fire Blast for his 1. On top of dramatically improving its CC and damage, it improves its design as Fire elemental

My Frost has Ice elemental ward in his 2. It gives frost more defense and soft auto CC, on top of improving its design as Ice elemental

My Excalibur has Warcry/Defy in his 3. On top of adding defense and offense, It improves its design as melee swordsman

So yeah, Helminth system might cause DE to be more lazy about fixing individual warframe's problem. But if they give me the tool so i can fix the problem myself, then i'll take it.

 

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2 hours ago, Timothy_Mark said:

controversial opinion but the helminth system is overrated: ive never crafted the helminth system and i still managed to enjoy the game without the need of replacing warframe abilities like everyone is saying

So you're saying people have been suffering from a boring and unenjoyable game for 7+ years until Helminth system was introduced.

Edited by Xaero
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I would at least subsume an ability first, even if it's just a Helminth one, before forming an opinion, otherwise your arguments have no basis.

that said I do share the same concern in regards to reworks: Xaku did get looked at, but he's the newest frame, so was inevitably going to get tweaked anyway. the main concern is older frames, like Nyx, Zephyr, Hydroid etc. DE don't need much of an excuse to avoid reworks, and if it's only one ability that needs changing, it's far easier to just expect the player to fix it on their end  by replacing the ability in question with another via Helminth. a frame with a kit that has more than one lackluster ability, such as Chroma, still has some chance of being reworked as Helminth can't solve all the frame's problems, so some intervention from DE is required.

it's not because I think DE is work-shy or lazy, obviously that's not the case. but reworks DO take a lot of time, time that can be spent creating new content and updating older content, there's only so many hours in the day, and reworks have to be thought out, tested and then usually looked at again and again after release. it's a lot of work to do, and if the player can just swap that ability out for one they will find more useful, why not let them?

I think that Helminth is a decent system in many regards, but I also feel DE will inevitably use it as an excuse to avoid reworks, unless the community at large gets REAL loud. new frames as they get released will be fine, they'll get attention, but frames that are older, that people never use; those will be the ones left to rot.

 

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Its a little early to say, they have only released one frame since the update.

Whether DE chooses to rework old frames or not has always been a point of argument even before the helminth system came to be. Helminth existing or not may not have any impact on the reworks.

At least now the weak frames can be given a leg up - though it does feel a little iffy, if i replace an ability on a weak frame and only use that ability ,is the frame really stronger? or is it now just a "stat frame".

Also if you are forming an opinion without actually using the system then your arguments hold no merit.

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I also don`t really care that much for the system, me personally I would rather have the ability to swap warframe passives, that would be sick. The only thing that I like about the system is that it shows what frame ability need a lookover, the best stats shown (which proves my point on what I say about him) was on Ash where it showed the abilities that is most replaced, shuriken was 1st and his bladestorm was 2nd, think about it despite bs doing 2,000 damage at base, doing slash damage, true damage and can be increased by the combo multi it`s second, if an ability can do all that there is no way in heck it should be so high, why is it so high? It`s simple because of the marking mechanic.

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9 hours ago, Timothy_Mark said:

controversial opinion but the helminth system is overrated: ive never crafted the helminth system

Ahhhh so you're making opinions about something that you have no actual experience with. Pretty sure that's a good reason to not bother reading the rest of the post. 

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12 hours ago, Timothy_Mark said:
controversial opinion but the helminth system is overrated: ive never crafted the helminth system and i still managed to enjoy the game without the need of replacing warframe abilities like everyone is saying, i like warframes with their default ability kits, it keeps their originality, and but thats my opinion, the real problem i want to mention is the fact its a nightmare, because not only can you can you take one good ability from a weak warframe and slap it onto a meta frame which makes meta frames more broken and weaker frames more terrible
 
is it makes it easier for the devs to make excuses to not buff/rework waframe abilities or waframes as a whole, why have a bad warframe ability if you can just replace it with a good ability, thats the same as if you homeless just buy a house, why do abilities exist in the first place? its by not so well balancing, and having the helminth system just throws out reasons to fix weaker waframes out the window straight into a grave, hell i know this will piss off alot of people but i bet if the helminth system was removed, it would force the devs to look at lower tier warframes and really work on improving them
 
i mean if we get a mechanical system for necramechs where we can remove one ability from one mech and slap it on another it would make the best necramech even more top tier and make the weaker mech more trash than ever, you get what i mean, i mean imagine if rivens were removed from the game to? not only it would focus the devs into buffing/reworking weaker weapons, it also removes the RNG/LootBox mechanics from players and makes people less scammy and really focus on other things, you know what i mean, its really controversial and i probably angered alot of people, but these are just my opinions ive bottled up for awhile, sorry.
 
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Uh...good for you I guess?

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