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The fact that we have to re-grind captured Liches that we bought makes no narrative sense


FalseLight27

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inb4 "suspend your disbelief more" "it doesnt have to make sense it's a video game" or "since when has DE cared about lore cohesion"

Not only does it not make sense from a lore standpoint, it also unnecessarily increases tedium. Yeah it stimulates the market for Reqmod sales but we mostly just WTT that anyway. Imagine if the Crimson Room had something that the Lich could appear chained on, and the guy buying the Kuva weap gets to have the honors of finishing the Lich off. I imagine the big blast-door looking thing is a prison chamber. Maybe it could open up and reveal a restrained Lich within. That would be both thematic and awesome, and gives another excuse for people to go to other people's Dojos (Void knows they're pitifully under-utilized already).

Continuity is already severed thanks to the player who beat the Lich getting the correct requiem sequence. If you really want, you can say Continuity regenerates and the buyer still has to have the right mods, but this time the seller could just tell him what he needs to finish the guy off. This makes the whole process easier while still requiring buyers to participate in the requiem mod market.  

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Not everything has to make sense lorewise. It doesn't make sense that a Lich without helmet doesn't die when I throw an Ogris missile in his left eye but hey, I'm not asking for the Lich to be obliterated when it happens.

This mechanic is here to incentivize you to play the game. If you don't want to play, there is already a very easy solution.

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As a strech you could say that the conversation is undone when lich is told to serve another, so it falls back to its base behavior, but instead its obsessive about you.

Thinking about it your enemy you been chasing, makes friends with you and you finally accepted then turns around to say that the friendship is now over and you should hangout with his accquince who you consider an enemy. Liches arent slave to be bought and sold especially the grineer.

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5 hours ago, FalseLight27 said:

inb4 "suspend your disbelief more" "it doesnt have to make sense it's a video game" or "since when has DE cared about lore cohesion"

Not only does it not make sense from a lore standpoint, it also unnecessarily increases tedium. Yeah it stimulates the market for Reqmod sales but we mostly just WTT that anyway. Imagine if the Crimson Room had something that the Lich could appear chained on, and the guy buying the Kuva weap gets to have the honors of finishing the Lich off. I imagine the big blast-door looking thing is a prison chamber. Maybe it could open up and reveal a restrained Lich within. That would be both thematic and awesome, and gives another excuse for people to go to other people's Dojos (Void knows they're pitifully under-utilized already).

Continuity is already severed thanks to the player who beat the Lich getting the correct requiem sequence. If you really want, you can say Continuity regenerates and the buyer still has to have the right mods, but this time the seller could just tell him what he needs to finish the guy off. This makes the whole process easier while still requiring buyers to participate in the requiem mod market.  

I love how you're not at all concerned with the fact that we're effectively owning and trading slaves via the kuva lich system, but are concerned with the idea that after purchasing a new slave- they must be beaten into submission after the previous owner had already done so. Can't make this kinda stuff up, really. 

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You dont buy the lich, you pay someone to sell out their former friend, much like how criminals act. It would just be a mess of a work to have both a system for hunting down liches and one for hunting down former-friend-of-a-hole-tenno liches.

I also have no clue where people get the idea from that they are our slaves. We convert them, that is it, then they do their own thing and pop in from time to time when we need help and they feel like it. Slaves dont tend to run free with massive guns and have the choice to help you if they feel like it. I suggest people should go read up on slavery if they think liches are slaves, read about ancient Rome or germanic/scandic thralls, or maybe even something closer, like fairly recent US slavery.

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6 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Not everything has to make sense lorewise. It doesn't make sense that a Lich without helmet doesn't die when I throw an Ogris missile in his left eye but hey, I'm not asking for the Lich to be obliterated when it happens.

This mechanic is here to incentivize you to play the game. If you don't want to play, there is already a very easy solution.

By that logic you should be okay with Thomas the Tank Engine coming in and rocking your S#&$ every 3 hours and 46 minutes. Headshots not being instakill can be hand-waivium'd away by saying the Grineer have rudimentary emergency shields or whatever, but a big mechanic like this can only benefit from being more tied into the lore. Warframe is disjointed as it is without overzealous loyalists defending it with "if you dont like x thing dont play the entire game". Just listen to the opinions of players who are leaving and look at the huge dips in player numbers to substantiate that. They feel no sense of achievement running themselves through this grind machine. You know why? Because the origin system doesn't feel like a real connected place. Things like this could be a step towards that.

 

1 hour ago, Dauggie said:

well buying liches itself makes no sense. but people don't want to bother with RNG so now we can just buy liches. 

"I grinded for this Lich, I won't just let somebody take possession of his weapon that is attached to his soul via Contrivium-link, gotta get something worthwhile for my trouble first". Essentially you would pay for the privilege of ultimately severing the Lich's continuity, thus transferring ownership of the weapon over to you. Having to re-grind the guy yourself is just a disrespect of your time after you've paid the plat tbh. 

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You dont buy the lich, you pay someone to sell out their former friend, much like how criminals act. It would just be a mess of a work to have both a system for hunting down liches and one for hunting down former-friend-of-a-hole-tenno liches.

I also have no clue where people get the idea from that they are our slaves. We convert them, that is it, then they do their own thing and pop in from time to time when we need help and they feel like it. Slaves dont tend to run free with massive guns and have the choice to help you if they feel like it. I suggest people should go read up on slavery if they think liches are slaves, read about ancient Rome or germanic/scandic thralls, or maybe even something closer, like fairly recent US slavery.

Except I'm not suggesting two systems. I'm suggesting to have an option to present the lich gagged and bound to another player so that they could take possession of their "soul-bound" weapon in exchange for plat, without the inconvenience of a pointless grind middle-man. And frankly Liches immediately becoming your friend upon conversion cheapens the experience. A pet-like loyalty system would be great. I know people have been clamoring for Lich levels to actually mean something for captured Liches too.

But those are accessories compared to eliminating the nonsensical re-grind process. Selling out our former friend, and now they're upset? But aren't they in our custody? What can they do to resist? They break out every single time? You'd think Tenno would have measures in place to prevent that. After all, you have to build an entire room in the Dojo where you presumably keep them for re-education or to be eventually traded. 

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19 hours ago, FalseLight27 said:

Except I'm not suggesting two systems. I'm suggesting to have an option to present the lich gagged and bound to another player so that they could take possession of their "soul-bound" weapon in exchange for plat, without the inconvenience of a pointless grind middle-man. And frankly Liches immediately becoming your friend upon conversion cheapens the experience. A pet-like loyalty system would be great. I know people have been clamoring for Lich levels to actually mean something for captured Liches too.

But those are accessories compared to eliminating the nonsensical re-grind process. Selling out our former friend, and now they're upset? But aren't they in our custody? What can they do to resist? They break out every single time? You'd think Tenno would have measures in place to prevent that. After all, you have to build an entire room in the Dojo where you presumably keep them for re-education or to be eventually traded. 

I'm just saying bound and gagged wouldnt work either, since the lich isnt a in a ball and chain situation when we convert them. We save them more or less by helping them break free from the kuva addiction that makes it possible for the queen(s) to actually control them like slaves. Think of them as the Dominion junkie clones from Deep Space Nine, they fight because they get drugs and know nothing else really. The Dojo room is simply a gameplay mechanic to add some rules on how they are traded, since Dojos are the center of trading already and it is possible it was easier to make a new trade station specific for liches.

Where do people get the idea from that they are in our custody or anything similar?

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Why are Liches even tradeable in the first place?

Why not just make unranked kuva weapons and ephemeras directly tradeable?

 

Was there some unimplemented mechanic that would have involved trading converted liches and Not killing them? Maybe they were going to serve as Railjack crew or something at some point, and have xp/skills that rank up, so it makes sense to be able to transfer them around?

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On 2020-10-19 at 8:49 PM, FalseLight27 said:

 

disrespect of your time after you've paid the plat tbh. 

you pay the plat for "specific lich" (weapon/ephemera). that's it. or else DE could have just made their rank 0 weapons tradable. Which would just make players not even try that game mode since usually everything gets cheap with plat, which it is currently compared to when liches first came, also it then directly becomes Pay to win scenario.

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On 2020-10-20 at 6:59 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Where do people get the idea from that they are in our custody or anything similar?

It just makes sense. Regular Grineer are compelled to be hostile even without Kuva. They are engineered that way and Kuva Larvlings aren't any different. Removing the "Kuva addiction" doesn't un-Grineer them. Course you can handwave it away by saying that the Parazon has some secret formula up its sleeve to make them friendly but that's just... lame. 

Then again me complaining about this wholly underdeveloped system in the first place is like being upset an infant can't walk.  

 

14 hours ago, Dauggie said:

you pay the plat for "specific lich" (weapon/ephemera). that's it. or else DE could have just made their rank 0 weapons tradable. Which would just make players not even try that game mode since usually everything gets cheap with plat, which it is currently compared to when liches first came, also it then directly becomes Pay to win scenario.

Kuva Liches are unique in that they're priced at the neighborhood of and even beyond vaulted primes, but you still have to go through the whole grind process upon paying for them. And it's not an either or scenario. Making it so that players just skip ahead to the part where they actually administer the requiem mods to the Lich still means that they have to actually get said mods, meaning they'll still participate in the grind for those and/or the requiem mod market. 

Also having to incentivize players to actually bother with a gamemode kinda speaks to how fun that gamemode really is wouldnt you say

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8 hours ago, FalseLight27 said:

It just makes sense. Regular Grineer are compelled to be hostile even without Kuva. They are engineered that way and Kuva Larvlings aren't any different. Removing the "Kuva addiction" doesn't un-Grineer them. Course you can handwave it away by saying that the Parazon has some secret formula up its sleeve to make them friendly but that's just... lame. 

Then again me complaining about this wholly underdeveloped system in the first place is like being upset an infant can't walk.  

It is the requiem sequence that does it all, we decide if it will be used for their death or their freedom. Grineer arent full-on-blind with tenno hate, which can be seen on Deimos and in invasions where we fight alongside them. It is mostly when we attack their territories that they get hostile, and in most cases rightly so.

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