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Could Xaku Prime be lore breaking?


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1 minute ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Umbra isn't the first warframe, just listening to Ballas in the Sacrifice gives that away

But he was one of the ones made out of actual human hybrids, the orokin way. 

Not by our orbiter's 3D printer and the helminth, which clearly doesn't require human sacrifices every warframe build.

Edited by Kaiga
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Like all unique Warframe models, Xaku is the mass production version made of parts of other mass production models lost in the Void expeditions.

We weren't told how many Void expeditions were made. Xaku Prime would then be made of the Prime versions Of the three lost Warframes, as the first successful mishmash Warframe assembly made by the Entrati (if it is even Grandmother herself who made Xaku, which is speculated but never confirmed, she or someone else could have had Xaku commissioned well before the Infestation overtook Deimos)

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4 hours ago, WH1735S0W said:

I am convinced that at some point there will be a Xaku Prime. However given Xaku's lore could this be lore breaking?

 

We have a long way to go for Xaku Prime, but what do you think?

Could there be another Xaku that takes parts from prime Warframes?

The simplest option would be that Xaku gets a prime, which is based on what the original component Warframes would have looked like in their Prime versions.  We also don't know for sure that Xaku wasn't reforged by the Orokin to begin with - the lore could go either way, with Xaku rebuilding themselves to survive or with the Orokin "rewarding" three nearly destroyed 'frames by recycling what was left into a new design.

Basically, it only breaks lore if DE says it does.  Otherwise they can create whatever lore they like to justify it.  I'd say that Revenant Prime is a bigger stretch than Xaku Prime, because his origin story is *specifically* that he was a Guardian Warframe who was captured and corrupted by the broken essence of the dead Sentient as it struggled to revive itself and escape.  His Prime version would *definitely* have had different powers.  So I guess we'll get a preview when we see how they decide to deal with him.

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35 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I'd say that Revenant Prime is a bigger stretch than Xaku Prime, because his origin story is *specifically* that he was a Guardian Warframe who was captured and corrupted by the broken essence of the dead Sentient as it struggled to revive itself and escape.  His Prime version would *definitely* have had different powers.  So I guess we'll get a preview when we see how they decide to deal with him.

I would disagree. Revenant was described as one who would siphon the energy from the Eidolons in order to defeat them. And he has an ability that basically does that, meaning Revenant never truly lost his previous identity in regards to his abilities, only that he was corrupted by them in terms of control (and in consequence, presentation). All of Revenant's abilities could totally just get a vampiric flare added to them and he would be fine, such as Enthrall using a bat-like entity instead of Vomvalyst one or Mesmer Skin giving him some sort of extra armor plates. The only real outlier would be Danse Macabre, but that could still be argued as not totally being a Sentient-based ability, especially considering how lasers aren't exactly an Sentient only thing, especially regarding very thin and spinning ones.

Edited by Scruffel
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2 часа назад, Hypernaut1 сказал:

I hate prime lore in general. Never made sense to me that the prime was the "original". Especially since design wise, they look like an evolution of the regular frame. 

It also never made sense that primes don't require original to craft.

I think we went away from "original primes" at some point. Definitely with Leverian, who pictures normal frames for his stories.

Now it's more like, regular frame is the original, basic model, while prime is an improved later variant for showing off.

 

And no, Umbra isn't original either. Excal is still THE first warframe that was made, while Umbra is created long into the Old war. The whole story starts with Ballas leaking warframe info to Hunhow - which means by that time warframes and tenno were long in use.

Edited by Serafim_94
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1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

But he was one of the ones made out of actual human hybrids, the orokin way. 

Not by our orbiter's 3D printer and the helminth, which clearly doesn't require human sacrifices every warframe build.

All Warframes, normal, prime, and Umbra, are made of infested people. In the Jordas fight he explains that the infested doesn’t like us because they don’t understand why they are being attacked by one of their own. This line is said no matter what frame you are using. No frames are just 3D printed machines, regardless of the fact that we make them with our foundry.

Once again, I must remind everyone to not confuse gameplay mechanics with lore.

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Xaku's lore is already a shoddy reason to explain the three piece design.I suppose Xaku would just have BP, Seer Prime fragment, Rampart Prime Fragment, and Arana Prime Fragment. But knowing DE's "attention to detail," we'll just get BP, neuro, chassis, systems as usual. Nidus Prime will probably look like the Entrati halls. Revenant Prime may just look like a non-Sentient-y Revenant. Not that he looks like a sentient now anyway...

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18 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Valk's lore

so you are saying Salad picked an invulnerable rage machine for his torture experiments? yeah, mate, I think YOU might be misinterpreting lore ;)

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14 hours ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

All Warframes, normal, prime, and Umbra, are made of infested people. In the Jordas fight he explains that the infested doesn’t like us because they don’t understand why they are being attacked by one of their own. This line is said no matter what frame you are using. No frames are just 3D printed machines, regardless of the fact that we make them with our foundry.

Once again, I must remind everyone to not confuse gameplay mechanics with lore.

This is true, otherwise why would we have a Helminth in our orbiter? The monster that turns people into Warframes.

Also, what do people think that all those capture targets are used for? They get turned into Warframes, our Warframes.

As for Xaku breaking the lore of the game. If you go and look at the Warframe Wiki page every single frame featured has a lore section featuring the its back story. All the frames apart from one, Xaku.

Xaku is what? A group of frames that was destroyed in the void that managed to put themselves back together as in a single body? Well, in that case surely Xaku prime is going to be a set of the original frames yes? Because Xaku rebuilt itself from the parts of the destroyed, it wasn't created as the Xaku we have in game by the Orokin.

Protea is another problem. During Deadlock Protocol, Biz clearly states that Protea is "one of a kind" so, the Protea we have has to be Protea Prime as no others were built and Parvous Granum has been trapped in the void with the only existing example.

Nidus has his own problems. During Gast Gambit his blueprint is described as an "Old war artifact" so the original Nidus must be a Prime as all non prime frames are supposed to date from after the old war? (Unless you hold to the fan theory (not lore) that regular non prime frames are the mass produced soldier variant based of the prime prototype).

Lore behind Valkyr has pretty much been ironed out, and was a result of terrible writing.

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All frames will eventually get primes.  Now given the idea behind xaku its prime is gonna be tricky.

Personally if i was designing the prime this is what i would do.

Have the 3 prime original frames that xaku took parts from be their own complete model.

Each time xaku uses its alt it changes models to the next original frame it took parts from.

You could have a complete male frame, a voluptuous female frame, and a loli frmale frame all in one.

Edited by (PS4)Kakurine2
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On 2020-10-20 at 2:36 PM, Scruffel said:

Valkyr Prime could just be explained by simply saying "Valkyr may have a restrained form of herself (Gersemi), but she would still be a rage machine at any other time".

Nidus Prime would also be possible, since Nidus isn't completely Infested, because if he was there would have be no way of using Transference with him.

Revenant Prime... now I know this might sound crazy but hold on for a second, Revenant was never a Sentient Warframe. Even in his own lore, he was originally just a standard Warframe that got corrupted by Eidolons. His Prime version will have the exact same abilities, just with a different coat of vampiric paint. I would not be surprised if he looked like one too. And for his Danse Macabre having Sentient-like Adaptation, that could be explained as Revenant being a prototype of Sentient technology before the Orokin created them for real,  which would make sense since Revenant is not using the same type of adaptation, more like an anti-version of it. In addition, it would also be a smart move by the Orokin to create a Warframe with that purpose in case the Sentients did rebel, and that is similar to how Revenant dedicated his time to protecting Cetus from the Eidolons before he sacrificed himself.

And Xaku Prime, quite literally could still be possible as the Warframes who originally made up Xaku, would also have Primes as well, which could leave upon the potential for their Prime to exist pretty consistently within lore. The only question would be though, how did their Prime end up mostly the same way (depending on how they are presented)?

This. These are perfectly good explanations for all the "contested" Prime warframes. All Prime warframes are canon and there really is no reason to think otherwise.

22 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

They did retcon Helios Prime’s origin

It's not a retcon for DE to say "the Helios is manufactured by the Corpus" and then later to say "but they based it off an older Orokin design", especially because almost everything in the game is based off an older Orokin design. The Corpus in particular are quite well known for their obsession with reverse-engineering Orokin technology.

21 hours ago, Bronjun said:

Entrati designed xaku based on their lost warframes.

Not canon. Just because Xaku was found on Deimos doesn't mean they were made by the Entrati. To my knowledge, the Entrati weren't even involved in the Warframe Project at all.

21 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I hate prime lore in general. Never made sense to me that the prime was the "original". Especially since design wise, they look like an evolution of the regular frame. 

Most "Prime lore" is just made up by the community. The only thing that's canon is that Prime technology dates from the Orokin age. Primes aren't necessarily the original and we know the vanilla versions of warframes were also around in Orokin times because the What Remains comic shows a vanilla Octavia. It's likely that the Primes are in fact evolutions of the original, vanilla design, ornamented for ceremonial roles in the Orokin Empire.

22 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It also never made sense that primes don't require original to craft.

Made sense in a game mechanic way or in a lore way? If it's the former, I tend to agree, especially now that Cephalon Simaris lets you get back quest blueprints. If it's the latter, then I don't see why that would be the case.

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3 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Also, what do people think that all those capture targets are used for? They get turned into Warframes, our Warframes.

Possible but never confirmed. Remember, the targets go to the Lotus, not to our ships (at least they used to).

3 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Biz clearly states that Protea is "one of a kind" so, the Protea we have has to be Protea Prime as no others were built and Parvous Granum has been trapped in the void with the only existing example.

"One of a kind" doesn't necessarily mean there was only one of her. It could mean that Protea was the only warframe with similar powers; ie time manipulation (Rhino's flavour text notwithstanding). A lot of other warframes are mechanically or thematically similar, but Protea does appear to be rather unique.

3 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Nidus has his own problems. During Gast Gambit his blueprint is described as an "Old war artifact" so the original Nidus must be a Prime as all non prime frames are supposed to date from after the old war? (Unless you hold to the fan theory (not lore) that regular non prime frames are the mass produced soldier variant based of the prime prototype).

Vanilla warframes existing during the Old War is canon, so Nidus dating from the Old War doesn't mean it has to be Nidus Prime.

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3 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

 

Made sense in a game mechanic way or in a lore way? If it's the former, I tend to agree, especially now that Cephalon Simaris lets you get back quest blueprints. If it's the latter, then I don't see why that would be the case.

I didnt think it made sense as a game mechanic. As a new player, i was really confused that i was able to craft an improved version of a warframe without needing the original. It felt weird progression wise. One would assume you would just improve what you have. Obviously not a big issue, was just confusing to me at first. 

That was during the time where weapons used other weaker weapons for crafting too. 

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Xaku Prime will be hard to explain. The only real way out would be if the explaination is that only these 3 specific frame types managed to merge and function together out of a multitude of broken frames. And the very first Xaku was made up of salvaged Prime parts of these 3 specific frames, which the orokin (entrati) then mass produced since it turned out to be a strong frame. Which was followed by it getting sealed up in relic caches.

However, if the first Xaku turned up later, obtaining them from relics wouldnt make sense.

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Maybe if we get the primed version it will be all 3 of the donor Warframes and you cycle through them like Equinox but you select the one you want like toggling Ivara's Quiver

Something, something, fragments of their former selves lost in the void, something something space magic, something, something sum of it's parts, something something ninja mysticism. 

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I wouldn't think so, the last, desperate creation of the warframe crafters, ill-matched parts over a barely finished warframe, gilded because even in desperation they're still orokin.

 

A further thought, maybe "Xaku" is low orokin for "Flawed".

Edited by AltheusVI
I had an idea.
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21 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Possible but never confirmed. Remember, the targets go to the Lotus, not to our ships (at least they used to).

"One of a kind" doesn't necessarily mean there was only one of her. It could mean that Protea was the only warframe with similar powers; ie time manipulation (Rhino's flavour text notwithstanding). A lot of other warframes are mechanically or thematically similar, but Protea does appear to be rather unique.

Vanilla warframes existing during the Old War is canon, so Nidus dating from the Old War doesn't mean it has to be Nidus Prime.

You could be right on that last part as there are several official versions of canon depending on which member of DE staff you talk to.

Most people find the one they like the best and stick to it.

Honestly though, the lore has been getting weaker and weaker over time with new lore contradicting old lore left right and centre.  It's a real mess.

As for Primes, every Warfame will be given a prime no matter how implausible because Primes make moolah, and in the end, that's the purpose of the game.

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