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Needing to level up Deimos pets twice just to get the MR from them feels tedious for no reason.


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If kitguns and zaws and amps were actually modular, I would almost understand it.  They aren't, which makes the gilding process for those things also feel like a time-sink and nothing actually beneficial to the player.  But with pets, there's not even the pretense of them being modular, you pour some mutagens into the vat with the half-dead animal and get a new animal.  What the hell is the gilding process supposed to be for?  

I'm sure someone is going to show up and "oh, but it's just like putting on a forma" which feels like trash anyway, because it means these weapons we spend standing and whatnot on come with no polarities innately (even though the pets do.  Why am I having to gild these things?) which always feels like trash as well.  The issue I'm taking with pets especially, is that just like kubrows and sentinels, there's only a very few ones that are worth actually building out and using.  I don't want all 6 of these things.  I want the MR from them, and I'm going to have to level them all up twice for just the MR.  

On top of THAT, the way pets gain affinity is also complete garbage.  They don't gain any affinity from your kills whatsoever.  I either have to leech of other people's kills, level them up extremely tediously by running dozens of spy missions with each one (even SP spy only gives them a few levels WITH a booster on.) or figure out how to get one of these worthless things to kill stuff on its own with terrible pet AI and no DPS potential due to limited mod capacity and damage mods being part of the animal instead of a separate moddable instance, and then sit around while it does it.  Leveling pets is enough of a pain on its own and I'm going to have to do it 12 times if I want the MR.

And to add insult to injury, I'm going to need to run dozens of bounties for the standing for each to gild them (when I could be spending that standing on something worthwhile.), and then...  I'm going to have to do more of thisstupid ass conservation so I can get dozens of son tokens.  I hate conservation.  I despise it.  I don't want to capture another animal in these stupid open worlds.  I signed up to be a space ninja, not a Green Peace grunt running around with a tranq rifle, trying to keep the local infested from killing these stupid things before I can get to them.  10 son tokens on top of the standing when I'm already having to level each of these damn things twice is not a bit much, it's a LOT much.

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Inb4 people saying "it's easy just run Hydron/whatever affinity grinding spot" as if it's fun to spend all your playtime in a single mission.

Gilding has always been dumb, as you say the fact that it's not actually modular ruins it. It really feels like they were going to let us swap parts out before Gilding, but then they must have run into some technical difficulties or whatever and just changed it into "level it up twice but for the first time you can't use a good build and the stats are gimped".

Gilding needs a rework. Pet Affinity also needs a rework. Unfortunately the fact that both of these problems have existed in the game for many years, with barely a mention from anyone at DE, doesn't bode well for their chances of improvement.

For the conservation part, the one fortunate thing is that you'll be able to trade in finished pets for enough Son Tokens to Gild a new one. 10 Tokens for an ungilded pet, 15 for a Gilded one. It still sucks getting the Tokens to Gild your first pet though (either through conservation or wasting an entire pet). It really feels like a bandaid feature, like they realised that 10 Tokens is a boring slog and added the trade-in value instead of just reducing the cost.

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hace 1 hora, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan dijo:

Leveling pets is enough of a pain on its own and I'm going to have to do it 12 times if I want the MR.

Yup, just like the modular MOA from Fortuna, btw what's the importance of the MR? I only guild a panzer and I'm very happy with him.

What fun is it to rank up the mastery if you're going to end up getting frustrated and angry in the forum?

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Gilding is stupid and doesn't add or improve anything to the game by its existence, for the nth time, yes.

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

It really feels like they were going to let us swap parts out before Gilding, but then they must have run into some technical difficulties

or potentially realized that it would be pointless to even have and really it should just be Lego any time anywhere. Mastery tied to the shooty bit and re-Lego your thing anytime, would be the best way.

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I agree with the OP on every point. Gilding could have perhaps made sense as a "try before you buy" mechanic where the player could test out a modular weapon or pet, swap out its components at will, and then lock in when satisfied. However, because the item is locked in from the start, gilding only serves to double the Affinity grind, forcing us to carry around a weapon or pet with awful stats until we get to actually start letting it progress. It's significantly worse with pets, as they take longer to rank up and gain Affinity in bizarre, counter-intuitive ways. I also agree that the icing on the cake is the Son token requirement: when I first saw that gilding a pet required 10 Son tokens, I thought it was simply a stand-in for the usual 5k Standing cost. When I had to actually gild my pet, though, it's only then I saw it was 10 Son tokens on top of 5k Standing, adding even more pointless grind to a process already saddled with tacked-on tedium. Given that conservation in Deimos is already by far the least rewarding out of all three open levels (capturing even the rarest specimens grants only a maximum of an equivalent of 2.5k Standing apiece, if one's lucky with the token requirements, whereas one can net 8k immediate Standing with a single capture on the Vallis), there is absolutely no justification for any of this, save for DE wanting to stuff even more padding into an already overpadded grind.

As a side note, I think it's also worth pointing out the unreliability of actually obtaining a weakened specimen to begin with: simply capturing a Predasite or Vulpaphyla doesn't work; the specimen needs to get hit by Infested in order for the capture to yield one. When capturing rarer specimens in solo runs, this means having to kite Infested into the call point, then directing them to the specimen without the latter escaping. For whichever reason, one can't just get one from a perfect capture, let alone a regular one, and there's no explanation for how any of this works, so the player has to figure out the whole rigmarole for themselves, or by looking up Reddit or the wiki. As per the above, this too is a new degree of frustrating busywork that did not exist in previous grinds, which is being layered on top of a grind that really does not need any more added to it.

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The gilding process for literally anything is just a pain that is extremely unnecessary. It has not only no purpose, but it also adds absolutely nothing to the game. I'd say remove it from being necessary and maybe make it optional for those that for whatever reason can't cough up 1 forma.. 

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4 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Not every weapon has polarities, and it is just another forma. It's honestly no effort to throw the weapon or companion on and passively rank them while doing other stuff, but I guess you can complain about a very temporary difficulty. 

"No effort" is not having enough capacity for even hp-radar-fetch mods if you're lower MR, so the companion keeps dying, while you're still missing some quality mods. Solo kill doesn't give S#&$ to companions, but I guess you can keep leeching, because that's the absolute no effort.

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On 2020-10-21 at 6:04 AM, BahamutKaiser said:

Not every weapon has polarities, and it is just another forma. It's honestly no effort to throw the weapon or companion on and passively rank them while doing other stuff, but I guess you can complain about a very temporary difficulty. 

I literally predicted your arrival in my initial post.  I must be a prophet.

 

On 2020-10-21 at 1:25 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No different than Gilding zaws. 

As for this sentiment, it's much different than gilding weapons.  As stupid as it already is, which everyone else has been kind enough to point out, I've mostly gotten used to how tedious making a new pretend-modular weapon is.  Your companions do not gain affinity from your kills.  They are trash at getting their own kills until you've covered them in forma and rare mods, and even then they're only about as skilled as the rest of the AI in the game, which isn't saying much.  That means you either have to have this gimp leg companion with you for god knows how long while it passively levels up while providing no utility due to limited mod space, or you HAVE to leech.  It doesn't matter where I take it, I have to depend on team kills for these stupid things to level up because of the way they gain affinity.  The only other even remotely viable way that I know if is to run objective heavy mission types and level them from objective completion xp, which takes forever even on the SP.  

It's a world of difference compared to gilding a zaw or kitgun.

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On 2020-10-20 at 8:12 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

If kitguns and zaws and amps were actually modular, I would almost understand it.  They aren't, which makes the gilding process for those things also feel like a time-sink and nothing actually beneficial to the player.  But with pets, there's not even the pretense of them being modular, you pour some mutagens into the vat with the half-dead animal and get a new animal.  What the hell is the gilding process supposed to be for?  

I'm sure someone is going to show up and "oh, but it's just like putting on a forma" which feels like trash anyway, because it means these weapons we spend standing and whatnot on come with no polarities innately (even though the pets do.  Why am I having to gild these things?) which always feels like trash as well.  The issue I'm taking with pets especially, is that just like kubrows and sentinels, there's only a very few ones that are worth actually building out and using.  I don't want all 6 of these things.  I want the MR from them, and I'm going to have to level them all up twice for just the MR.  

On top of THAT, the way pets gain affinity is also complete garbage.  They don't gain any affinity from your kills whatsoever.  I either have to leech of other people's kills, level them up extremely tediously by running dozens of spy missions with each one (even SP spy only gives them a few levels WITH a booster on.) or figure out how to get one of these worthless things to kill stuff on its own with terrible pet AI and no DPS potential due to limited mod capacity and damage mods being part of the animal instead of a separate moddable instance, and then sit around while it does it.  Leveling pets is enough of a pain on its own and I'm going to have to do it 12 times if I want the MR.

And to add insult to injury, I'm going to need to run dozens of bounties for the standing for each to gild them (when I could be spending that standing on something worthwhile.), and then...  I'm going to have to do more of thisstupid ass conservation so I can get dozens of son tokens.  I hate conservation.  I despise it.  I don't want to capture another animal in these stupid open worlds.  I signed up to be a space ninja, not a Green Peace grunt running around with a tranq rifle, trying to keep the local infested from killing these stupid things before I can get to them.  10 son tokens on top of the standing when I'm already having to level each of these damn things twice is not a bit much, it's a LOT much.


I agree with your criticism, it is dumb.

It's not pointless though.

This is another example of DE padding content with extra grind to slow players down artificially rather than developing a game that stands on it's own merits and content.  The point is specifically to be padding and make you have extra busy work, from their stance this is not only acceptable, but encouraged and leaks into every aspect of design they can manage.

This has been the way of the game since PoE launched, so I'm not sure why you seem surprised that it gets more and more egregious and ridiculous over time since it's a well established pattern of behavior.

While I don't believe the Devs are actively trying to sabotage their own game, I do genuinely believe they are so incredibly incompetent, mismanaged and out of touch with the player base that nearly every decision they make tends to make it look that way.  The sad thing is, the game does have bits of genious to it and is genuinely fun to play, if you simply ignore all the egregious missteps and abuse of player trust that is so commonplace... if you just see past the abusive relationship they have with you as a customer, it's all good man. 

The problem arises only because you choose to see the reality of the situation and not just live in a fantasy.  if you could just do that for them and not complain and instead give them an echo chamber of endless praise, that would work out just fine.  Once you start criticizing their choices though, you don't matter anymore and eventually your posts just get deleted (like for real) because you are calling out the devs on their own bad choices and behavior.  They are very sensitive, and don't like criticism, especially if you're not babying them and treat them like adults that deserve to be held accountable for their own failures.  All evidence I've seen shows they really don't like that.


 

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On 2020-10-23 at 8:26 PM, Klokwerkaos said:


I agree with your criticism, it is dumb.

It's not pointless though.

This is another example of DE padding content with extra grind to slow players down artificially rather than developing a game that stands on it's own merits and content.  The point is specifically to be padding and make you have extra busy work, from their stance this is not only acceptable, but encouraged and leaks into every aspect of design they can manage.

This has been the way of the game since PoE launched, so I'm not sure why you seem surprised that it gets more and more egregious and ridiculous over time since it's a well established pattern of behavior.

While I don't believe the Devs are actively trying to sabotage their own game, I do genuinely believe they are so incredibly incompetent, mismanaged and out of touch with the player base that nearly every decision they make tends to make it look that way.  The sad thing is, the game does have bits of genious to it and is genuinely fun to play, if you simply ignore all the egregious missteps and abuse of player trust that is so commonplace... if you just see past the abusive relationship they have with you as a customer, it's all good man. 

The problem arises only because you choose to see the reality of the situation and not just live in a fantasy.  if you could just do that for them and not complain and instead give them an echo chamber of endless praise, that would work out just fine.  Once you start criticizing their choices though, you don't matter anymore and eventually your posts just get deleted (like for real) because you are calling out the devs on their own bad choices and behavior.  They are very sensitive, and don't like criticism, especially if you're not babying them and treat them like adults that deserve to be held accountable for their own failures.  All evidence I've seen shows they really don't like that.


 

I agree with every word that you said 

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4 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

???

Was my response really confusing?

Let me spell it out for ya.

Gilding exists because DE needs to make that green. They need the moolah. Cash-flow. Intake of dividends. College-fund resources. etc. etc.

Gilding requires platinum. Platinum is the premium currency... see the connection? DISREGARD MY NONSENSE!!!!!!! GO TO ANOTHER POST!!!!

Rivens, Kuva weapons, gilding mechanic, time gates, cosmetic content, mastery rank restrictions etc. are all representations of systems DE has implemented because Warframe needs recursive methods for encouraging players to spend real money.

michael douglas high quality GIF

Edited by Leqesai
DUMDUM
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22 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Was my response really confusing?

Let me spell it out for ya.

Gilding exists because DE needs to make that green. They need the moolah. Cash-flow. Intake of dividends. College-fund resources. etc. etc.

Gilding requires platinum. Platinum is the premium currency... see the connection?

Rivens, Kuva weapons, gilding mechanic, time gates, cosmetic content, mastery rank restrictions etc. are all representations of systems DE has implemented because Warframe needs recursive methods for encouraging players to spend real money.

michael douglas high quality GIF

and how does Gilding get them money? Contrary to your wildly inaccurate statement, it does not cost any plat.

 

Can you use plat to circumvent the leveling up to get an item gilded, because last I checked it had nothing to do with plat. Maybe you could spell this out for me, too.

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3 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

and how does Gilding get them money? Contrary to your wildly inaccurate statement, it does not cost any plat.

 

Can you use plat to circumvent the leveling up to get an item gilded, because last I checked it had nothing to do with plat. Maybe you could spell this out for me, too.

Damn.. The hole in my leak-proof rant about greedy corporate methodologies has left me looking a tad silly.

Let's just pretend I know what I'm talking about and continue saying bad things about DE's greed.

BOOOO to greed! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Excited Aww GIF by TikTok

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5 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Damn.. The hole in my leak-proof rant about greedy corporate methodologies has left me looking a tad silly.

Let's just pretend I know what I'm talking about and continue saying bad things about DE's greed.

BOOOO to greed! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Excited Aww GIF by TikTok

nothing to see here! Move along, now!

 

You posted a doggo so you are exonerated!

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10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Damn.. The hole in my leak-proof rant about greedy corporate methodologies has left me looking a tad silly.

Let's just pretend I know what I'm talking about and continue saying bad things about DE's greed.

BOOOO to greed! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Excited Aww GIF by TikTok

200.gif
 

In all seriousness, Gilding is just unnecessary. My pessimistic view said it’s there as a “trade off” for the short crafting time, but MOAs just made it irrelevant. What I want for ungilded weapons is to allow us to disassemble it so we can re use the parts for later because I don’t like the resulting weapon for one reason.

Edited by DrivaMain
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